Way Too Early All-American Teams

[dukedevilz]

As mentioned in previous threads, not a whole of games going on this week. Might be a good time to get edition 1 of 17 for our All-American teams out of the way. Who ya got?

1st Team
Carsen Edwards, Purdue
RJ Barrett, Duke
Zion Williamson, Duke
Grant Williams, Tennessee
Ethan Happ, Wisconsin

2nd Team
Shamorie Ponds, St.John's
De'Andre Hunter, Virginia
Rui Hachimura, Gonzaga
Dedric Lawson, Kansas
Bol Bol, Oregon

3rd Team
Ja Morant, Murray State
Jarrett Culver, Texas Tech
Caleb Martin, Nevada
Ignas Brazdeikis, Michigan
Brandon Clarke, Gonzaga

Just missed:
Lagerald Vick, Kansas
Nickeil Alexander-Walker, Virginia Tech
Jared Harper, Auburn
Cassius Winston, Michigan State
Luguentz Dort, Arizona State
Mike Daum, South Dakota State
CJ Massinburg, Buffalo
Jordan Caroline, Nevada
Daniel Gafford, Arkansas
Markus Howard, Marquette
Mariol Shayok, Iowa State
Matt Rafferty, Furman

 

[DallasJayhawk]

Highly doubt 2 dukies make first team, Dedric Lawson will def have the numbers for 1st team.

 

[sgrooms]

Highly doubt 2 dukies make first team, Dedric Lawson will def have the numbers for 1st team.

I actually think its highly likely. Similar to Redick/Williams and Cousins/Wall, it'll be impossible to choose one and leave out the other.

 

[dukedevilz]

Highly doubt 2 dukies make first team, Dedric Lawson will def have the numbers for 1st team.

You could easily have Rui Hacimura or Dedric Lawson on the 1st Team. I was debating on 7 guys for those 5 spots. Lawson's shooting percentages are a little lower than the other wings/forwards. Rui doesn't quite fill up the boxscore quite like the rest of the 1st Teamers.

Zion and RJ are projected 1-2 in most mock drafts. Both have higher player efficiency ratings than Lawson or Rui - and it's not like this would be unprecedented. Duke had 2 first-teamers in 2006 with JJ and Shelden - and 2 first-teamers in 2001 with Shane Battier and Jason Williams.

 

[SIhoosier26]

As mentioned in previous threads, not a whole of games going on this week. Might be a good time to get edition 1 of 17 for our All-American teams out of the way. Who ya got?

1st Team
Carsen Edwards, Purdue
RJ Barrett, Duke
Zion Williamson, Duke
Grant Williams, Tennessee
Ethan Happ, Wisconsin

2nd Team
Shamorie Ponds, St.John's
De'Andre Hunter, Virginia
Rui Hachimura, Gonzaga
Dedric Lawson, Kansas
Bol Bol, Oregon

3rd Team
Ja Morant, Murray State
Jarrett Culver, Texas Tech
Caleb Martin, Nevada
Ignas Brazdeikis, Michigan
Brandon Clarke, Gonzaga

Just missed:
Lagerald Vick, Kansas
Nickeil Alexander-Walker, Virginia Tech
Jared Harper, Auburn
Cassius Winston, Michigan State
Luguentz Dort, Arizona State
Mike Daum, South Dakota State
CJ Massinburg, Buffalo
Jordan Caroline, Nevada
Daniel Gafford, Arkansas
Markus Howard, Marquette
Mariol Shayok, Iowa State
Matt Rafferty, Furman

Forgot Romeo Langford, I would definitely have him 3rd team.

 

[Hawkquake]

Dedric Lawson is 100% a 1st team AA.

 

[ExitFlagger]

Not sure what Vick's identity is yet. He looked like one of the five best players in the country for several games but did little in the last few. It seems there were some off-court issues that may have affected his play.

 

[dukedevilz]

I'd rather see other people make their own All-American teams, instead of "you missed this one guy..." That's fine. We're never going to see eye-to-eye on everything. Like I said, I considered Dedric Lawson, and he's certainly one of the top candidates to make 1st Team. But it's not as though any of the 5 guys I listed aren't deserving of 1st Team status. If the voting was done today, I really feel like Zion, Happ, and Grant Williams would all be locks. Carsen Edwards or RJ I could see sliding into the 2nd Team. Certainly A LOT can change in 3+ months. But these are my All-American teams as of today.

Forgot Romeo Langford, I would definitely have him 3rd team.

If you look at the guys on my 3rd Team, I would argue that Morant, Culver, Brazdeikis, and Clarke are much, much more efficient than Romeo. Can't realistically debate Romeo over any of those 4 guys. The only one I could possibly entertain to exclude on my list is Caleb Martin. There numbers are similar, but I'd say Martin's numbers still look a little better - and he's on a better team, too.

 

[WeAreDePaul]

hey @dukedevilz , how close was Chris Clemmons to making the cut?

 

[SIhoosier26]

I'd rather see other people make their own All-American teams, instead of "you missed this one guy..." That's fine. We're never going to see eye-to-eye on everything. Like I said, I considered Dedric Lawson, and he's certainly one of the top candidates to make 1st Team. But it's not as though any of the 5 guys I listed aren't deserving of 1st Team status. If the voting was done today, I really feel like Zion, Happ, and Grant Williams would all be locks. Carsen Edwards or RJ I could see sliding into the 2nd Team. Certainly A LOT can change in 3+ months. But these are my All-American teams as of today.



If you look at the guys on my 3rd Team, I would argue that Morant, Culver, Brazdeikis, and Clarke are much, much more efficient than Romeo. Can't realistically debate Romeo over any of those 4 guys. The only one I could possibly entertain to exclude on my list is Caleb Martin. There numbers are similar, but I'd say Martin's numbers still look a little better - and he's on a better team, too.

Romeo is averaging more points and more rebounds than Brazdekis and he's at 49% shooting. You didn't even have him on your long just missed list. It's okay to admit you forgot him, nobody will mind.

I know he wasn't great against Duke but he's been great in every other game this year.

Edit: also more assists, so it's not like it's farfetched.

 

[TheMichiganWolverines]

Romeo is averaging more points and more rebounds than Brazdekis and he's at 49% shooting. You didn't even have him on your long just missed list. It's okay to admit you forgot him, nobody will mind.

I know he wasn't great against Duke but he's been great in every other game this year.

Edit: also more assists, so it's not like it's farfetched.

Romeo is averaging about a point more, a less rebound and like a half assist more, shooting 3% less than Iggy and on worse team who hasn't played near the level of competition that Michigan has yet. Iggy is putting up 20 point games against the likes of Purdue, Villanova and UNC. Romeo got sat by the only real competition he played. I've watched him several times this year and he is nowhere near Brazdekis right now.

On a second note, how much do I have to pay a month to post more than once every week? I used to love being on here and the football board and now I get to post once every 5 days and it's annoying as can be. What do I have to do to join back in? I've been posting here for over 10 years and this is what they do to me?!

 

[schoonerwest]

Romeo is averaging about a point more, a less rebound and like a half assist more, shooting 3% less than Iggy and on worse team who hasn't played near the level of competition that Michigan has yet. Iggy is putting up 20 point games against the likes of Purdue, Villanova and UNC. Romeo got sat by the only real competition he played. I've watched him several times this year and he is nowhere near Brazdekis right now.

On a second note, how much do I have to pay a month to post more than once every week? I used to love being on here and the football board and now I get to post once every 5 days and it's annoying as can be. What do I have to do to join back in? I've been posting here for over 10 years and this is what they do to me?!

https://forums.rivals.com/threads/post-here-and-tag-a-mod-if-still-having-posting-issues.659759/

I think you can post in here and ask a mod to help you out. Seems to work for others with the same issue.

 

[SIhoosier26]

Romeo is averaging about a point more, a less rebound and like a half assist more, shooting 3% less than Iggy and on worse team who hasn't played near the level of competition that Michigan has yet. Iggy is putting up 20 point games against the likes of Purdue, Villanova and UNC. Romeo got sat by the only real competition he played. I've watched him several times this year and he is nowhere near Brazdekis right now.

On a second note, how much do I have to pay a month to post more than once every week? I used to love being on here and the football board and now I get to post once every 5 days and it's annoying as can be. What do I have to do to join back in? I've been posting here for over 10 years and this is what they do to me?!

Well Romeo is better than Michigan's freshman. Maybe 1 day he'll be as good. Right now he isn't...

 

[hailtoyourvictor]

Romeo is averaging more points and more rebounds than Brazdekis and he's at 49% shooting. You didn't even have him on your long just missed list. It's okay to admit you forgot him, nobody will mind.

I know he wasn't great against Duke but he's been great in every other game this year.

Edit: also more assists, so it's not like it's farfetched.

Brazdeikas is averaging more points and rebounds per minute than Langford. Michigan just happens to be better than Indiana and has been able to empty the bench more often. If Michigan needed Brazdeikas to play 39 minutes and 34 minutes against Norfolk State and Holy Cross like Indiana used Langford for against UT-Arling and UC-Davis then their "per game" counting stats would even with Brazdeikas having undeniably better efficiency numbers.

 

[hailtoyourvictor]

Well Romeo is better than Michigan's freshman. Maybe 1 day he'll be as good. Right now he isn't...

Debatable

 

[dukedevilz]

hey @dukedevilz , how close was Chris Clemmons to making the cut?

Romeo is averaging more points and more rebounds than Brazdekis and he's at 49% shooting. You didn't even have him on your long just missed list. It's okay to admit you forgot him, nobody will mind.

I know he wasn't great against Duke but he's been great in every other game this year.

Edit: also more assists, so it's not like it's farfetched.

Romeo has a Player Efficiency Rating of 21.7
Ignas Brazdeikis has a PER of 28.0.

A PER of 28 is All-American Status. Romeo's PER of 21.7 is more in line with all-conference status. He's still a solid player - and certainly there's time for him to make a big enough jump to make one of the All-American teams.

FWIW, I initially had 20+ players on my honorable mention list. I compiled this in notepad and I didn't save the text file. But I did have Chris Clemons and Romeo Langford on that list. Just didn't want my list of "just missed" to be longer than the number of All-Americans (15).

I don't recall everyone that I had on my long list of honorable mentions. But here are some of the names I do recall:

Chris Clemons, Campbell
Romeo Langford, Indiana
Jaylen Nowell, Washington
Jordan Murphy, Minnesota
Jon Axel Gudmundsson, Davidson
Cam Johnson, UNC
Keldon Johnson, Kentucky
Ty Jerome, Virginia
James Palmer, Nebraska
Admiral Schofield, Tennessee

 

[sgrooms]

Romeo has a Player Efficiency Rating of 21.7
Ignas Brazdeikis has a PER of 28.0.

A PER of 28 is All-American Status. Romeo's PER of 21.7 is more in line with all-conference status. He's still a solid player - and certainly there's time for him to make a big enough jump to make one of the All-American teams.

FWIW, I initially had 20+ players on my honorable mention list. I compiled this in notepad and I didn't save the text file. But I did have Chris Clemons and Romeo Langford on that list. Just didn't want my list of "just missed" to be longer than the number of All-Americans (15).

I don't recall everyone that I had on my long list of honorable mentions. But here are some of the names I do recall:

Chris Clemons, Campbell
Romeo Langford, Indiana
Jaylen Nowell, Washington
Jordan Murphy, Minnesota
Jon Axel Gudmundsson, Davidson
Cam Johnson, UNC
Keldon Johnson, Kentucky
Ty Jerome, Virginia
James Palmer, Nebraska
Admiral Schofield, Tennessee

You should use stickynotes instead of notepad.

 

[dukedevilz]

You should use stickynotes instead of notepad.

I've just been using notepad for so long; hard to break the habit. Haven't used sticky notes very much. Why do you prefer using it, out of curiosity?

 

[sgrooms]

I've just been using notepad for so long; hard to break the habit. Haven't used sticky notes very much. Why do you prefer using it, out of curiosity?

I was the same way until about 3 years ago. Sticky notes don't need saving. That's the main reason I switched. It's also easier to have multiple notes open. They don't act as separate windows that need to be managed one at a time (harder to understand this one until you use multiple notes with both).

Recently, they added a feature to view the same notes across all of your devices. That's been really helpful, since I go back and forth between a desktop and laptop. And I'm sure there's a mobile version I could get.

 

[dukedevilz]

I was the same way until about 3 years ago. Sticky notes don't need saving. That's the main reason I switched. It's also easier to have multiple notes open. They don't act as separate windows that need to be managed one at a time (harder to understand this one until you use multiple notes with both).

Recently, they added a feature to view the same notes across all of your devices. That's been really helpful, since I go back and forth between a desktop and laptop. And I'm sure there's a mobile version I could get.

Interesting. I'll have to try that out. Thanks.

 

[HoosierAlice]

Iggy is putting up 20 point games against the likes of Purdue, Villanova and UNC.

So, Iggy he is averaging 20 points a game against two teams who may not even make the NCAA tournament.

 

[dukedevilz]

Michigan is the only team in the country with 4 top 50 wins so far (NCAA Net Rankings): UNC (#16), Purdue (#28), Villanova (#34), Northwestern (#48).

 

[WeAreDePaul]

I love these "my freshman is better than your freshman debates" LOL who cares. At the end of the day, does it really matter if your freshman is better if your team is about 1000x worse?

When push comes to shove, when your guy is a guaranteed one and done and the only year you have him your team doesn't do crap does it really matter that he was better or slightly better than some other freshman who could be playing and contributing to a team that goes late into March? Talk about claiming some ridiculously hollow victory.

 

[SIhoosier26]

Romeo is averaging about a point more, a less rebound and like a half assist more, shooting 3% less than Iggy and on worse team who hasn't played near the level of competition that Michigan has yet. Iggy is putting up 20 point games against the likes of Purdue, Villanova and UNC. Romeo got sat by the only real competition he played. I've watched him several times this year and he is nowhere near Brazdekis right now.

On a second note, how much do I have to pay a month to post more than once every week? I used to love being on here and the football board and now I get to post once every 5 days and it's annoying as can be. What do I have to do to join back in? I've been posting here for over 10 years and this is what they do to me?!

This is a terrible post on a lot of levels. Let's start with the facts, Romeo is averaging more points, assists, and is a little higher on rebounds so I don't know where you are getting your stats. Also don't pretend like IU hasn't played anyone, Romeo scored 21 in a win against Louisville, 22 in a win against Marquette. He also scored 20 against Northwestern, and 17 against Penn State on the road. I'll say this, I guarantee he beats out Brazdeikis out for Big 10 FOTY. Do you want to debate that?

 

[SIhoosier26]

I love these "my freshman is better than your freshman debates" LOL who cares. At the end of the day, does it really matter if your freshman is better if your team is about 1000x worse?

When push comes to shove, when your guy is a guaranteed one and done and the only year you have him your team doesn't do crap does it really matter that he was better or slightly better than some other freshman who could be playing and contributing to a team that goes late into March? Talk about claiming some ridiculously hollow victory.

What a dumb post, IU isn't 1000x worse than Michigan. Watch some damn basketball if you're gonna open your mouth, you look stupid otherwise. You are a DePaul fan so it it does kind of make sense though.

You sound like a toddler and smell of someone that's watched like 5 games all year. You would fit right in at ESPN. Hell IU's ranked in the top 25 right now.

They will no doubt be a tournament team and DePaul will be sitting at home where they belong. Stay in your lane and stop making dumba*s comments.

 

[sgrooms]

Lots of terrible and dumb posts this morning.

 

[SIhoosier26]

Debatable

No it's not, Michigan being a better team doesn't make Brazdeikis better than Romeo. Wishing and hoping won't do it either. Brazdeikis is a really good player but he's not Romeo Langford. Just check the mock drafts they'll tell you all you need to know.

Romeo>Brazdeikis and it isn't that close.

 

[Denim Vest]

Without seeing much of other players I like to think Bryce Brown could get in the conversation.

I did see Ja Morant again Bama. Dynamic stat stuffer but turns it over like crazy. Be interesting to see Jared Harper matchup with him next week.

 

[imajericho]

No Coby White. Ok.

 

[dukedevilz]

Without seeing much of other players I like to think Bryce Brown could get in the conversation.

I did see Ja Morant again Bama. Dynamic stat stuffer but turns it over like crazy. Be interesting to see Jared Harper matchup with him next week.

Turnovers are an issue, I agree. But he also has the ball in his hands constantly. So it's a given he's going to turn it over a little more than most. Very similar to Trae Young last year, who also averaged more than 5 turnovers per game.

Harper and Brown I think are both legitimate All-American candidates... A lot of quality guys to pick from this early in the season. If Auburn remains a top 10 team, I gotta think one of those two guards will receive All-American honors.

 

[dukedevilz]

No Coby White. Ok.

Make your own list. This is just my opinion.

No it's not, Michigan being a better team doesn't make Brazdeikis better than Romeo. Wishing and hoping won't do it either. Brazdeikis is a really good player but he's not Romeo Langford. Just check the mock drafts they'll tell you all you need to know.

Romeo>Brazdeikis and it isn't that close.

Romeo is a better pro prospect. Nobody is arguing that. This is a case of who is the better/more effective college player. Romeo and Iggy aren't that far off in most categories. But Iggy, at least so far in their early careers, is a much, much better shooter. He also scores and rebounds at a higher rate. Romeo has more assists per minute, but that is negated by the fact that Romeo turns the ball over more. Iggy actually has a slightly better assist to turnover ratio (I'd say it's negligible, though). Also, we can't forget the fact that Iggy is playing for a national title contender. IU will make the tournament, but I think their ceiling is probably the Sweet 16.

Per 40 Minutes
Romeo:
21.9 ppg
6.4 reb
2.8 ast
1.2 stl
1.1 blk
2.7 turnovers

48.8% fg
23.7% 3-pt
69% fg
52.4% effective fg%
Assist to Turnover Ratio: 1.05

Iggy:
23.6 ppg
7.2 reb
1.7 ast
1.1 stl
0.7 blk
1.5 turnovers

51.9% fg
38.7% 3-pt
81.4% ft
57.5% effective fg%
Assist to Turnover Ratio: 1.09

 

[SIhoosier26]

Make your own list. This is just my opinion.



Romeo is a better pro prospect. Nobody is arguing that. This is a case of who is the better/more effective college player. Romeo and Iggy aren't that far off in most categories. But Iggy, at least so far in their early careers, is a much, much better shooter. He also scores and rebounds at a higher rate. Romeo has more assists per minute, but that is negated by the fact that Romeo turns the ball over more. Iggy actually has a slightly better assist to turnover ratio (I'd say it's negligible, though). Also, we can't forget the fact that Iggy is playing for a national title contender. IU will make the tournament, but I think their ceiling is probably the Sweet 16.

Per 40 Minutes
Romeo:
21.9 ppg
6.4 reb
2.8 ast
1.2 stl
1.1 blk
2.7 turnovers

48.8% fg
23.7% 3-pt
69% fg
52.4% effective fg%
Assist to Turnover Ratio: 1.05

Iggy:
23.6 ppg
7.2 reb
1.7 ast
1.1 stl
0.7 blk
1.5 turnovers

51.9% fg
38.7% 3-pt
81.4% ft
57.5% effective fg%
Assist to Turnover Ratio: 1.09

I agree with your comments and you also had stats to back it up. Brazdeikis is a very good player and better than I thought he was. Very good post.

 

[CardinalBoiler]

In KenPom tier-A games:

Romeo Langford - IU (3 games)
99.9 ORtg - 17.3 PPG - 7.3 RPG - 3.0 APG (2.7 TOPG)
34.9 FG% - 28.6 - 3FG% - 81.8 FT%

Iggy Brazdeikis - UM (4 games)
142.7 ORtg - 19.3 PPG - 4.5 RPG - 1.3 APG (0.5 TOPG)
59.2 FG% - 50.0 3FG% - 80.0 FT%

 

[SIhoosier26]

In KenPom tier-A games:

Romeo Langford - IU (3 games)
99.9 ORtg - 17.3 PPG - 7.3 RPG - 3.0 APG (2.7 TOPG)
34.9 FG% - 28.6 - 3FG% - 81.8 FT%

Iggy Brazdeikis - UM (4 games)
142.7 ORtg - 19.3 PPG - 4.5 RPG - 1.3 APG (0.5 TOPG)
59.2 FG% - 50.0 3FG% - 80.0 FT%

I know I just commented on it, those numbers caught me off guard. Brazdeikis and Romeo are both good players, Brazdeikis has just been a little bit better to this point.

 

[CardinalBoiler]

I know I just commented on it, those numbers caught me off guard. Brazdeikis and Romeo are both good players, Brazdeikis has just been a little bit better to this point.

I think they're both AA candidates to this point, but Iggy has been more efficient on a better team. And that's no knock on Romeo, who's been great thus far, outside shooting notwithstanding.

 

[dukedevilz]

In KenPom tier-A games:

Romeo Langford - IU (3 games)
99.9 ORtg - 17.3 PPG - 7.3 RPG - 3.0 APG (2.7 TOPG)
34.9 FG% - 28.6 - 3FG% - 81.8 FT%

Iggy Brazdeikis - UM (4 games)
142.7 ORtg - 19.3 PPG - 4.5 RPG - 1.3 APG (0.5 TOPG)
59.2 FG% - 50.0 3FG% - 80.0 FT%

I'm guessing you have to pay a little fee for those advanced statistics? Great data to pull from.

 

[CardinalBoiler]

I'm guessing you have to pay a little fee for those advanced statistics? Great data to pull from.

The $20/year for the KenPom subscription is well worth it if you've ever considered pulling the trigger.

 

[dukedevilz]

Who would you all have on your 1st Team at this point? Dedric Lawson probably deserves to be on the 1st Team, I just don't know who you take off the 1st Team I included (Carsen Edwards, RJ Barret, Zion, Grant Williams, Ethan Happ).

Also, who do you all think is the most likely mid-major to make one of the All-American teams (not counting Gonzaga or Nevada)? I never know how they're going to vote on mid-major players. Ja Morant is my pick, but I think a few others could certainly make it.

 

[CardinalBoiler]

Who would you all have on your 1st Team at this point? Dedric Lawson probably deserves to be on the 1st Team, I just don't know who you take off the 1st Team I included (Carsen Edwards, RJ Barret, Zion, Grant Williams, Ethan Happ).

Also, who do you all think is the most likely mid-major to make one of the All-American teams (not counting Gonzaga or Nevada)? I never know how they're going to vote on mid-major players. Ja Morant is my pick, but I think a few others could certainly make it.

First team:
Carsen Edwards - Purdue
Zion Williamson - Duke
Grant Williams - Tennessee
RJ Barrett - Duke
Ethan Happ - Tennessee

Second team:
Dedric Lawson - Kansas
Jarrett Culver - Texas Tech
Rui Hachimura - Gonzaga
Shamorie Ponds - St. John's
Ja Morant - Murray State

 

[bMORE607]

Well Romeo is better than Michigan's freshman. Maybe 1 day he'll be as good. Right now he isn't...

No it's not, Michigan being a better team doesn't make Brazdeikis better than Romeo. Wishing and hoping won't do it either. Brazdeikis is a really good player but he's not Romeo Langford. Just check the mock drafts they'll tell you all you need to know.

Romeo>Brazdeikis and it isn't that close.

I agree with your comments and you also had stats to back it up. Brazdeikis is a very good player and better than I thought he was. Very good post.

I know I just commented on it, those numbers caught me off guard. Brazdeikis and Romeo are both good players, Brazdeikis has just been a little bit better to this point.