"UK No Longer to be a Hat on the Table"; Cal Rescinds Scholly Offer to Top 25 Guard

Discussion in 'College Basketball Board' started by Random UK Fan, Sep 23, 2019.

  1. Random UK Fan

    Random UK Fan Well-Known Member
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    With Memphis' and Duke's recent recruiting success, Cal is tinkering.

    Calipari Is Already Practicing What He Preached in Recruiting
    by Aaron Torres on September 20, 2019 at 8:30 pm
    [​IMG]

    It goes without saying that recruiting is always a big subject when it comes to Kentucky basketball, and even though it’s football season, it feels like not only has recruiting news not slowed down in recent weeks, but actually picked up.

    Terrence Clarke and Lance Ware have committed (this after BJ Boston and Cam’Ron Fletcher committed over the summer). The school has decided to part ways with Top 15 prospects Jalen Green and Joshua Christopher because of fit and need. And the will he/won’t he Devin Askew reclassification rumors took a new twist, when Askew said this week that no, he won’t be reclassifying (something I’m still not sure that I 100 percent believe, by the way).

    More than just the actual news itself however, the uptick in both recruiting news and action comes at an interesting time. It comes just a few weeks after Calipari had his preseason media “State of the Union” address, a press conference where he talked extensively about UK recruiting and philosophy.

    You can read what Calipari said that day here, but what’s interesting to me is it seems as though we are already seeing Calipari put in motion what he said during that press conference. That he is already practicing what he preached that day.

    With that, let’s look at some of the news from recent weeks, how it pertains to Kentucky’s recruiting success of late, and what it could mean for the future of this program, not just in the 2020 recruiting class, but well beyond.


    1) Kentucky and Calipari refuse to be a “hat on the table.”

    This was the quote that picked up the most traction a few weeks back, and I believe the most important in terms of how to look at Kentucky recruiting in the future. Calipari’s exact words were that he no longer wants to be a “hat on the table.” It is a reference to the fact that too often, the Wildcats have made a kid’s final five, final three or maybe even final two, when there was no real chance that the kid would pick Kentucky.

    As Calipari said a few Sunday’s ago. It’s not about missing on kids – that’s going to happen no matter who you are – but instead, not wasting the time of the coaching staff, the player and his family, and the resources of the school if there isn’t serious consideration on both sides. Too often, that is exactly what Kentucky has done in recent years. And to be clear, it’s no one’s fault. You certainly can’t blame the staff for pursuing the best players in America. But there is also a sense of reality that needs to set in too. Sometimes, you’re just not going to get the recruit, no matter how much effort you put in.

    Off the top of my head, a few guys who have had Kentucky as a literal “hat on the table” even when there was little reason to think that they would attend the school included RJ Barrett, Vernon Carey, Isaiah Stewart, Matthew Hurt and others. James Wiseman probably would have picked Kentucky had his high school coach not been hired at Memphis, but it was clear by the end of his recruitment that he wasn’t coming to Kentucky. And same with Zion Williamson. No one was quite sure where he would go. But as he approached his commitment, it didn’t feel like Kentucky.

    Regardless, it’s a testament to Calipari that – even as successful as he’s been in recruiting – he’s evolving as he gets older. Which leads me to…

    2) Calipari wasn’t lying: He’s done wasting time

    Oh, you thought Calipari was kidding about wasting people’s time? Just go ahead and test him.

    TEST HIM!!!

    Kidding, but over the last week it’s clear that he is truly sticking to his guns on this topic. If the kid is only showing lukewarm interest, or if the fit simply doesn’t make sense, Calipari is simply cutting bait. Nothing personal on either side, just time to move on.

    And if you needed proof of that, look no further than the news of this week. After it initially looked like Kentucky was one of the favorites early in Jalen Green’s recruitment, Calipari decided this week to cease communication. Sure, Green is a similar player to Terrence Clarke and who knows if they could fit together. At the same time, it was clear that with Clarke’s commitment, Green was more heavily favoring Memphis and Oregon. A professional option next year could also be in play.

    [​IMG]
    USA Basketball

    Therefore, rather than wasting time flying back-and-forth across the country, the two sides decided to say their good-byes. Calipari pulled the “it’s not you, it’s me” card on him. But in this case, it wasn’t an excuse. It really was the best decision for both sides.

    Same with Josh Christopher.

    Had you asked just about anyone a month ago, it seemed like Christopher was a virtual lock for Kentucky. And unlike Green, it seemed like he still had genuine interest in the school, even with their slew of backcourt commitments.

    Yet rather than over-recruiting and taking one too many backcourt players, Calipari decided to move on. Between the commitments of Boston, Fletcher and Clarke, with the likelihood of Immanuel Quickley and Johnny Juzang potentially returning next year, the Wildcats were more than set.

    No need to recruit a player for the sake of recruiting him.

    There wasn’t a need, and Calipari decided to move on. I expect more of this in the future.

    3) Kentucky is focused on kids who really want to be there, rather than what the recruiting rankings say

    First, let’s be clear on something. When I say Kentucky isn’t focused on recruiting rankings, that’s not to say that kids like Lance Ware and Cam’Ron Fletcher – both ranked outside the Top 30 nationally – can’t play. If Calipari offered them a scholarship, they’re good enough to play at Kentucky. And if you needed proof of that, look no further than Devin Booker, Willie Cauley-Stein, Shai Gilgeous-Alexander Tyler Herro, none of whom were the highest-rated kids, but all of which ended up as lottery picks.

    So again, no one is saying those kids can’t play.

    But, if you are going to take a flier on a kid who might not be an obvious, can’t miss, no doubt about it NBA player, why not do it on a kid that you know wants to be at your school? One that will bleed blue and white and truly appreciate the experience of playing on the biggest stage in college basketball? It simply saves you time and headaches in the process. If the kid truly loves your school, it makes them less likely to decommit, less likely to worry about who else is coming in the class, and more likely to buy-in once they get to campus. It also helps the coaching staff narrow down their recruiting in this cycle and begin to turn their attention to the next one.

    Ultimately, it’s a win-win for all.

    That’s also why I have to once again give Calipari credit. He is practicing what he preached a few weeks back, when he said, “we get the kids who are supposed to be here.” And he is learning from his mistakes.

    Again, we already went over it, but last year the staff spent way too much time chasing kids all around the country, who seemingly had minimal interest in the Wildcats (Wiseman, Carey, Stewart, Hurt). Meanwhile, there was a kid like Aiden Igiehon, a Top 50 prospect, who was seemingly just sitting around, twittling his thumbs waiting for a UK offer.

    Whether Calipari wanted Igiehon or not isn’t important. What is important is that he almost assuredly missed out on someone (Igiehon or otherwise) who wanted to be at UK, instead, chasing kids who didn’t want to be.

    He didn’t make the same mistake this year. Terrence Clarke was ready to commit, and ready to reclassify, so they got things done. Ware and Fletcher weren’t the highest-ranked prospects but were ready to jump on board and did.

    Now the class is basically set, and Calipari can turn his attention to filling the final few spots. Rather than waiting on kids who don’t want to be there.

    4) It also means that if Kentucky is pursuing a player, they really are interested in him

    Which brings me to the final point. With Calipari spending so much time on the kids who are truly interested in Kentucky, it makes it all the more interesting to track the players that he continues to recruit in this class.

    Which means, cough…cough… could Cade Cunningham, the No. 2 player in America, actually end up in Lexington?

    At this point we all know the story here: Cunningham’s brother is an assistant at Oklahoma State, and the Cowboys are still the front-runner.

    Yet at the same time, I had heard months ago that he still was open to other schools, and he has all but confirmed it in the last month. North Carolina and Kentucky seem to be the most aggressively pursuing him.



    Now, does that mean that Cunningham will end up at UK? Of course not. But I also don’t believe Calipari would be recruiting him if he had no shot at all.

    The 2020 Kentucky recruiting class is already special. And whether it’s Cunningham, Askew, or maybe someone we don’t quite know about it, it has a chance to get even better.

    Thanks to the new recruiting philosophy by the coaching staff.
     
    1 Random UK Fan, Sep 23, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2019
  2. Kevin Bryan

    Kevin Bryan Moderator
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    I wouldn't say it's innovative, I'd say it's how most programs recruit. Why waste time on recruits there is little chance of landing? I also think he's probably getting a little tired of replacing the majority of his roster every year and it's never a bad thing to get guys that will be there at least 2-3 years and create some cohesion. I would think it gets old essentially starting from scratch most years and coaching an entirely new team from the bottom up. Besides, the one-and-done rule will soon be a thing of the past and some of the top prospects are already taking the overseas route, so pretty soon those guys won't be there to recruit anyway.
     
  3. toonces11

    toonces11 Well-Known Member
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    Honestly---there isn't anything in that entire thing that Cal and every other coach haven't been doing. That guy wrote a headline....and then just talked.
     
  4. coryfly

    coryfly Well-Known Member
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    The ‘hat on the table’ deal is a little weird. UNC and others have often been this as well. However, instead of pulling out if the recruitment they basically just stop recruiting the kid. Seems insecure to want to make sure everyone knows you aren’t recruiting the kid instead of just moving on and letting the kid technically choose. It definitely makes sense not to waste time with those players but I doubt he really has much in the past either. IDK, seems more like a story about nothing tbh.
     
  5. Kevin Bryan

    Kevin Bryan Moderator
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    He's not doing it to make sure everyone knows he isn't recruiting certain kids any longer. Coaches can't talk about unsigned recruits anyway. He just stops recruiting them as well, doesn't make a big stink about it. It's all the people that cover recruiting that make it known.
     
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  6. Random UK Fan

    Random UK Fan Well-Known Member
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    I see it as him communicating to recruits that if you aren't interested in UK, let us know early. Some kids want the notoriety from elite schools - even if they intend not to attend there - so that the "hats on the table" look like they hope they're the one picked. I like UK's name not being in the mix only to stroke a recruit's ego.
     
  7. coryfly

    coryfly Well-Known Member
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    Ah, gotcha. I took 'cutting bait' as him telling the player they were no longer recruiting him or that he no longer had a 'ship.
     
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  8. coryfly

    coryfly Well-Known Member
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    That probably won't change. I think all coaches tell kids to let them know early. Some kids just don't. I think blue bloods will always be used by some recruits for visits and notoriety.
     
  9. Villian07

    Villian07 Well-Known Member
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    A factor not mentioned is some of the highest of rated prospects like to wait and see who is and isn’t going pro.

    For example if for whatever reason a Hagans doesn’t go pro after this season, UK won’t really need a PG this class, and I doubt they can convince a 5 star pg to come in a play backup, but they have done it before so who knows. Same concept with Whitney and Montgomery and Richards.

    Also don’t know why the author threw out Aiden Igehon, he committed to us fairly early, and I don’t remember reading a lot about him sitting around twiddling his thumbs waiting for a uk offer but whatever. I mean I’m sure he would have liked to have a uk offer as most if not all recruits do but I’ve never seen him talk about UK as his dream school or holding off his recruitment in hopes of landing a up offer. Either way I’m thrilled to have him. His game needs polish no doubt but he is the most physically imposing freshman I have ever seen. I kinda wish he played on our footballs defensive line until basketball season lol. Dudes body seriously looks like deonte wilder.
     
    9 Villian07, Sep 24, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2019
  10. Villian07

    Villian07 Well-Known Member
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    But yea I also see this as Calipari getting ahead on the future regarding the end of one and done.
     
  11. Random UK Fan

    Random UK Fan Well-Known Member
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    I remember there being activity with UK and him, but I think once your coach showed up in Ireland I wouldn't blame him for going to UL. I wish we had signed him. I was excited that we were looking into him. I'm looking forward to seeing him play. He's a great get!
     
  12. Kevin Bryan

    Kevin Bryan Moderator
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    That was the writer's wording, although I doubt Cal is beating around the bush when he talks to recruits about it. I suppose it's a nicer parting gesture for both parties to know what's going on rather than to just stop contacting a recruit and making him wonder. Lines aren't blurred. The opportunity to commit was there, we have since filled the slot(s), the offer no longer stands kind of thing. UK wouldn't have much use for Green and Christopher, for example, when they already have Boston and Clarke on board. Especially considering that all those guys are prototypical 2 guards, none are going to be a primary ball handler. In the past I think Cal would've waited out players like that until the late period, and I think he's kind of done wasting all the time and effort on it. In years past he would get few, if any, early signees and this year he's loading up. Seems like he's shifting his strategy to take more guys early that are ready to jump on an offer and then key in on a few guys to target for the late period to fill whatever slots are left.
     
  13. Random UK Fan

    Random UK Fan Well-Known Member
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    I say they all do too. I'm not sure I've heard of anyone coming out and announcing that this is how it will be moving forward, as opposed to just being understood. Who knows? Maybe it'll change something in recruiting.
     
  14. coryfly

    coryfly Well-Known Member
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    I know with Kessler and Sharpe committed it virtually ends the recruitment of Garcia and Dickinson for Roy but I have no idea how that’s handled. Do they just understand it or is there a conversation? I have no idea how coaches handle that stuff.
     
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  15. Global Havok

    Global Havok Well-Known Member
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    If ending up with the superior player (Clarke vs Green/Christopher) is conceding, I hope he concedes like hell for the rest of his career at UK.
     
    15 Global Havok, Sep 24, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 24, 2019
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  16. Villian07

    Villian07 Well-Known Member
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    Surely they’d have to tell them the offer is off the table bc they would open themselves up to a media shot storm as well as negative recruiting if someone committed to a school and then found out the school didn’t want them anymore but didn’t tell them.
     
  17. Villian07

    Villian07 Well-Known Member
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    I didn’t realize he was ever on UKs radar, honestly figured he wasn’t rated high enough, But yea I’m definitely excited about his future. Hoping he can progress into Trez II, would say trez juinior but there’s nothing jr about the Irish hulk lol.
     
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  18. bkingUK

    bkingUK Well-Known Member
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    This is actually a pretty good use case for AI. Given various factors, algorithms can likely predict with relative accuracy the likeliness or commits going to a specific school. /nerd talk
     
  19. Villian07

    Villian07 Well-Known Member
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    AI vs teenagers decision making. Good luck Watson
     
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  20. CB3UK

    CB3UK Well-Known Member
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    Seems like he's putting more pressure on the guys who are legit interested to pull the trigger earlier. Stop wasting their time and ours.
     
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  21. oldsports_

    oldsports_ Well-Known Member
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    Innovating, probably not,I just think he's changing to a new direction.
     
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  22. schoonerwest

    schoonerwest Well-Known Member
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    I think it’s pretty normal for most schools to only focus on the guys they think they have a very good chance with. After decades of doing this, I’m sure he can figure out pretty quickly who is legit interested and who is not.
     
  23. CB3UK

    CB3UK Well-Known Member
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    Going ahead and getting out in front of locking down the best 2 and 3 yr guys. Get the program shifted towards that. For me, its about damn timem
     
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  24. Random UK Fan

    Random UK Fan Well-Known Member
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    Top 25 guard '20 says Cal rescinded his scholly offer.
     
    24 Random UK Fan, Oct 9, 2019 at 11:39 AM
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 9, 2019 at 11:59 AM
  25. schoonerwest

    schoonerwest Well-Known Member
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    Kentucky should have no shortage of guys that want to commit early but, in some cases, this could backfire. At the end of the day the recruits Cal does go hard after will still be making a decision. If he misses on those guys he wants to commit early then he will likely have little chance of getting back in on the other guys that he stopped recruiting early in the period. That’s what I would worry about if I were a Kentucky fan but like I said they usually have no shortage of players who are 5 stars who commit early. Worst case scenario would be having a Bill Self like class that’s 1-2 top 100 guys and a bunch of transfers.
     
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  26. Hank_

    Hank_ Well-Known Member
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    Old news, homie.

    Clarke ended that.
     
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  27. Random UK Fan

    Random UK Fan Well-Known Member
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    Yeah, I think he's been caught waiting for recruits that chose to go elsewhere, and I think he's working to make a scholly offer from UK "valuable" again. Not that it wasn't before, but enough kids have gone elsewhere that are only enamored with the results of the last 2-3 years.
     
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  28. coryfly

    coryfly Well-Known Member
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    Roy had a discussion with a guy not long ago. Well, the recruit and his parents. They discussed how with Kessler and Sharpe on board UNC probably wouldn’t be the best fit for either side in this class. Don’t doubt it happens all the time. The parents and kid seemed appreciative and understood. I think most kids would rather know.
     
  29. Random UK Fan

    Random UK Fan Well-Known Member
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    I'd like to see the schools be more in charge of the recruitment than the other way around. I think the announcements, anticipation, trying to shock everyone by being so secretive is played out.
     
  30. schoonerwest

    schoonerwest Well-Known Member
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    [​IMG]
     
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  31. denniden

    denniden Administrator
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    I am not sure why people don't understand that coaches at programs like Kentucky will back away from guys when it is clear they are not going to be the pick. Happens all the time and it is nothing new. So many recruiting "battles" were not battles at all. Just because a kid lists your school, it doesn't mean his intentions are genuine about attending that program. Coaches and their staffs know this and are very adept at sniffing this type of behavior out. There are outliers to this as some recruits are just too good to back off of at times. It is not uncommon for recruits and their support teams to use the name of big time programs to get more recognition without ever having any intention of going to those programs.
     
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  32. coryfly

    coryfly Well-Known Member
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    Without a doubt. Kids list programs all the time for pub.
     
  33. Quavarius

    Quavarius Well-Known Member
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    It’s funny Cal had no problem with “being a hat on the table” when he was landing any player he wanted. Now that the competition has increased, he has an issue with the players NOT choosing UK? This could backfire.
     
  34. Global Havok

    Global Havok Well-Known Member
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    Taking commitments from more players who are widely considered more talented and willing to commit sooner could backfire? You realize that is what occurred, right?

    I think Cal will probably be okay, but thanks for your concern.
     
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  35. gowolverines8

    gowolverines8 Well-Known Member
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    No worries we will take Christopher and Isaiah Todd in AA
     
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  36. Random UK Fan

    Random UK Fan Well-Known Member
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    I think this is his issue. If the UK hat is good enough to be on the table, but not selected, then don't put our hat on your table. Get hollow status somewhere else. I kind of like the idea. If the kid's not going here anyway, than don't use our school as a prop.
     
    36 Random UK Fan, Oct 10, 2019 at 2:09 PM
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2019 at 2:20 PM
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  37. Quavarius

    Quavarius Well-Known Member
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    So “Playerz First” was a lie?
     
  38. Random UK Fan

    Random UK Fan Well-Known Member
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    Good to see you around more, Q. Where have you been?
     
  39. RipThru

    RipThru Well-Known Member
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    I think "players first' actually refers to kids who actually play at UK. Could be wrong.
     
  40. coryfly

    coryfly Well-Known Member
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    Sometimes the hat being good enough to be on the table is fine. I don't think that is Cal's issue. If a dude has four schools he is legit considering guys like Cal, Roy, K, etc... don't mind. Sometimes it comes down to the wire (or close to it). It is an issue when a guy knows for a long time he is going somewhere but uses a school for no reason. Ingram going to UNC over and over again for free tickets comes to mind. He was a guy that was going to Duke from the day they offered.
     
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