Two tankers torpedoed in the Persian Gulf

Discussion in 'College Football Soundoff' started by Deathroll, Jun 13, 2019.

  1. Soonertshirtfan

    Soonertshirtfan Well-Known Member
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    Dude. Arent you in finance? Oil is sold on the global market. There is no such thing as energy independence. If there was, gas prices wouldnt fluctuate according to middle eastern whimsey.
     
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  2. Soonertshirtfan

    Soonertshirtfan Well-Known Member
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    Indeed.
     
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  3. Deathroll

    Deathroll Well-Known Member
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    If we can produce enough such that we can meet our needs with domestic production plus imports from Canada and Mexico we are effectively energy independent. There would be enough supply within our immediate militarily securable neighborhood that we could not effectively be threatened with disruption.
     
  4. Free_Salato_Blue

    Free_Salato_Blue Well-Known Member
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    Right on. The Brits conned us into overthrowing a democratically elected prime minister of Iran and place a tyrannical monarchy in.
    Just so British Petroleum can keep it's oil assets.

    We don't know if Iran did this. It could be Yemen rebels or even the Saudis trying to pull us into that stalemate hell in Yemen.
     
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  5. UCFhonors

    UCFhonors Well-Known Member
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    Well said. Very well said.

    Prices have an power effect. They can even get illegal drugs in top security prisons.

    We live in a global world where prices move products, services and people.

    #UCFacts

    SmokinSmile
     
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  6. UCFhonors

    UCFhonors Well-Known Member
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    What are you trying to say? If in war, our oil dependency wouldn't be threatened? Of course it would. Not just in drilling for oil but also in refining of oil.

    Our bottle neck is refining. I don't think a new refinery has been allowed to be built in 30+ years.

    Point is, war is bad. Everything is at risk in war.

    #UCFacts

    SmokinSmile
     
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  7. sdave

    sdave Well-Known Member
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    Also the bulge on the ocean that the sun displaces and pushes upwards
     
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  8. sdave

    sdave Well-Known Member
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    Tankers are notorious for surviving torpedo attacks

    Much smaller tankers in WW II survived multiple torpedo hits


    Only a mine makes sense
     
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  9. jackrabbit slim

    jackrabbit slim Well-Known Member
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    I can agree with that somewhat, as long as you people agree that our direct enemies are expansionists.
     
  10. Deathroll

    Deathroll Well-Known Member
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    Derp. What I'm saying is that if production in North America were enough to meet our needs, we would be far more secure than we have been being dependent on shipments from places like the Middle East, Nigeria and Venezuela. I would've thought that would be self evident.
     
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  11. UCFhonors

    UCFhonors Well-Known Member
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    Absolutely, I agree.

    Our foreign policy for like the last 40 years has been, we'll bomb you if you interfere with "American interest." That is a catch all phrase especially for the biggest economic trading country in the world.

    This crap all started with the Big Stick policy, and involving ourselves with Latin American.

    I subscribe to the George Washington foreign policy. leave other people alone and trade with errrrybody.

    #UCFacts

    SmokinSmile
     
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  12. UCFhonors

    UCFhonors Well-Known Member
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    Security is an illusion. Open markets, and free trade are our best bets for peace, though.

    The Strategic Petroleum Reserve (SPR) is an emergency fuel storage of petroleum maintained underground in Louisiana and Texas by the United States Department of Energy (DOE). It is the largest emergency supply in the world, with the capacity to hold up to 727 million barrels (115,600,000 m3).[1] The United States started the petroleum reserve in 1975 after oil supplies were interrupted during the 1973–1974 oil embargo, to mitigate future supply disruptions.

    The current inventory is displayed on the SPR's website.[2] As of February 1, 2019, the inventory was 649.1 million barrels (103,200,000 m3). This equates to about 35 days of oil at 2013 daily U.S. consumption levels of 18.49 million barrels per day (2,940,000 m3/d)[3] or 67 days of oil at 2013 daily U.S. import levels of 9.859 million barrels per day (1,567,500 m3/d).[4] However, the maximum total withdrawal capability from the SPR is only 4.4 million barrels per day (700,000 m3/d), so it would take over 150 days to use the entire inventory.

    #UCFacts

    SmokinSmile
     
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  13. Duckdude73

    Duckdude73 Moderator
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    [​IMG]
     
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  14. Deathroll

    Deathroll Well-Known Member
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    Yeah whatever. Eyeroll
     
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  15. Jay1187

    Jay1187 Well-Known Member
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    Plus satellites orbit....
     
  16. Jay1187

    Jay1187 Well-Known Member
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    They’ve been killing US service members for years.
     
  17. 12Ghost12

    12Ghost12 Well-Known Member
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    Our satellites do have various abilities to detect submerged subs in certain instances. But they really aren't necessary in this case.

    We know where virtually every submarine of interest in the world is located at any given time. During the cold war, we could identify Soviet subs by their sound. Not the type of sub mind you, but specific hull numbers. We had acoustic "fingerprints" of them.

    Britannia wishes they had ever ruled the waves as completely as our Navy does.
     
  18. TJW4SC

    TJW4SC Well-Known Member
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    You have obviously never been an oil trader nor have any experience in oil markets. Oil markets are global.
     
  19. DuckWeber

    DuckWeber Well-Known Member
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    My thought would be, to line an invasion force of a few hundred ships and a few tens of thousands of soldiers up, a few miles off the Iranian coast, give them a few days to assemble their defensive forces, then drop a string of MOAB's down their defensive line, effectively eliminating the Republican Guard, and making the Mullahs lives very precarious. The Iranian leadership is under the delusion, that they are the Achemaenid Empire, before which, the world trembled. In fact, it more resembles the crumbling dynasty that fell before a Macedonian now known as Alexander.
     
  20. Deathroll

    Deathroll Well-Known Member
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    Centcom confirms what many of us suspected. It was Limpet mines.

    https://www.navy.mil/submit/display.asp?story_id=109911

    ...twenty-one sailors from the M/T Kokuka Courageous who had abandoned their ship after discovering a probable unexploded limpet mine on their hull...

    At 4:10 p.m. local time an IRGC (Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps) Gashti Class patrol boat approached the M/T Kokuka Courageous and was observed and recorded removing the unexploded limpet mine from the M/T Kokuka Courageous (video attached).

    The United States has no interest in engaging in a new conflict in the Middle East. However, we will defend our interests.
     
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  21. MKOTiger

    MKOTiger Well-Known Member
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    Attacking mines. They zero in on a ship, attach to the hull and explode. One didn’t go off and an Iranian patrol boat pulled up next to the tanker and took the unexploded mine off the tanker. Didn’t want to leave any evidence.
     
  22. UCFhonors

    UCFhonors Well-Known Member
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    Yep its excessive on our part. Not sure if the UK has one, know they are building one carrier.

    As of June 2019, there are 41 active aircraft carriers in the world operated by thirteen navies. The United States Navy has 11 large nuclear-powered fleet carriers—carrying around 80 fighter jets each—the largest carriers in the world; the total combined deckspace is over twice that of all other nations combined.[7]

    #UCFacts

    SmokinSmile
     
  23. Jay1187

    Jay1187 Well-Known Member
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    Eyeroll
     
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  24. Stochdoc

    Stochdoc Well-Known Member
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    Most of the oil produced in the US is of the "lighter" varieties. Most of our refineries need more heavy oil. So, we sell some of our light oils and import the heavier stuff from Mexico. Not sure of we still import from VZ, but I doubt it.

    Net net, we would be gasoline short if we didn't do this.
     
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  25. LeroyOU12

    LeroyOU12 Well-Known Member
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    Light crude oil are high quality oil such as Brent crude and Western Texas Intermediate (WTI) is used as a benchmark in oil pricing. They produce a higher percentage of gasoline and diesel fuel when converted into products by an oil refinery.

    Mexico and VZ oil are heavy crude which is low quality, they required a different type of refining process to produce gasoline. VZ doesn't have the capacity/technology to refine all their heavy oil (US embargo), so they have to ship it to US to refine it and pay us in oil. Example: if they want 1million barrels of gasoline, they'd have to give us 2 millions barrels of oil.
     
    105 LeroyOU12, Jun 14, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2019
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  26. DawginSC

    DawginSC Well-Known Member
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    They don't give us the oil though. They give private oil companies the oil. Those oil companies then ship the refined oil back to the global market.

    This is the main issue with "drill more" being an answer for energy security. The private oil companies don't care about our energy security... they care about making money for their shareholders. The decisions they make after getting access to more oil will never be about what's in the best interest of the citizens of the US. When evaluating the impacts of a policy change like "open up ANWAR", you have to really analyze what is in the best interest of the oil company ownership and realize that is what they're going to do unless the government puts some sort of requirement or contract in place to force their actions towards what the citizens of the US WANT them to do.

    The US oil companies will never keep US produced oil local unless they can get as much as they would if they made it available to the global market. They're not going to do anything to drive prices down if they can avoid it. They're looking for profit. They don't want to do our citizens any favors.
     
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  27. LeroyOU12

    LeroyOU12 Well-Known Member
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    That's exactly what I meant in simple term, and uncle Sam also have a said in what US oil companies will get to do it.
     
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  28. 12Ghost12

    12Ghost12 Well-Known Member
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    Insert <that's not a carrier, THAT'S a carrier.gif>
     
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  29. CardX

    CardX Well-Known Member
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    There's a theory out there, given Katada's description of how things unfolded yesterday, that the attack was not a torpedo or a mine, but a projectile, and that the US is intentionally mischaracterizing the incident, and, perhaps, knew in advance it was going happen, to speed up the war machine against Iran.

    Not out of the question, I suppose, given our unorthodox administration. Then again, starting a war under false pretenses isn't setting a precedent.
     
    109 CardX, Jun 14, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2019
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  30. ALMDawgfan

    ALMDawgfan Well-Known Member
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    Is there any of our Administrations that are not duplicitous in that way? Really?...
     
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  31. Stochdoc

    Stochdoc Well-Known Member
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    You mean the WMD fiasco?
     
  32. ivan brunetti

    ivan brunetti Well-Known Member
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    "Yutaka Katada, the owner of one of the stricken oil tankers crippled in explosions in the Gulf of Oman on Thursday, says the U.S. is wrong about the way the attack was carried out. Speaking at a press conference in Tokyo on Friday, he contradicted Secretary of State Mike Pompeo and the U.S. Navy, which released a video that purports to show an Iranian patrol boat removing a limpet mine from the port side of the Kokuka Courageous. Katada said his ship was attacked on the starboard side by a flying object, not by a mine. “It seems that something flew towards them. That created the hole, is the report I’ve received,” Katada said, according to the Financial Times. “It seems there was a high chance they were attacked by a flying object. The impact was well above the water. I don’t think it was a torpedo.” The Japanese ship owner did not say who might be responsible for the attack. Iran has vehemently denied it was involved."

    https://www.thedailybeast.com/japanese-oil-tanker-owner-says-us-is-wrong-about-gulf-attack
     
  33. sgacock

    sgacock Well-Known Member
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    You obviously are not a student of history.

    We have owned the seas for about 50 years. They owned them for hundreds of years prior - and proved their ownership in numerous fleet actions..

    [​IMG]
     
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  34. mal_kav

    mal_kav Well-Known Member
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  35. Soonertshirtfan

    Soonertshirtfan Well-Known Member
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    in order to make that workable we would have to be willing to invade those countries.

    No. Oil will continue to be sold to the highest bidders in a market controlled by supply and demand.
     
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  36. Soonertshirtfan

    Soonertshirtfan Well-Known Member
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    Ever heard of the Gulf of Tonkin?
     
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  37. Stochdoc

    Stochdoc Well-Known Member
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    Oh yeah.
     
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  38. TJW4SC

    TJW4SC Well-Known Member
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    Not correct. Most refineries in the US don’t “need” more heavy oil. Rather, it is simply more economic for many US refineries to run a high percentage of heavy grades (based on each refinery’s processing capability and quality - price - differentials by grade of crude).
     
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  39. Stochdoc

    Stochdoc Well-Known Member
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    Considering refining margins can be pretty skinny, they do indeed need the heavy barrels or they'd be out of business.
     
  40. TJW4SC

    TJW4SC Well-Known Member
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    You should go back and study the 1970s when there were extensive regulations on the oil industry, including pricing, allocations , export restrictions, etc. Eventually, the Carter Administration determined that all these well intended regulations had negative unintended effects and controls were dismantled. IMO, the only unfortunate part of decontrol was that Reagan got credit for it when it was really the Carter Administration that did the serious analytical work to make the case for decontrol.

    Controls on the oil industry in the 1970s were a nightmare, even for the regulators.
     
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