Trump/ Biden I: The Battle for the Oval Office..

SNU0821

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He did not. I’m okay agreeing to disagree on this.

Here's just one article. The below quote is from a group of economists not overly friendly to Trump.

"But even they acknowledge that the current numbers are a uniquely Trumpian achievement and not owed to policies already set in motion when he took office."

So, are they just lying or not as good at economics as you?

You're 100% wrong on this man.
 
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IUfanBorden

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Trump also dismissed it as being not a big deal. That’s my point, bud. You’re comparing the two. Relative to Trump not handling it well, it seems Biden equally wouldn’t have handle it well, at worst. On the global scale, America did the worst job with this pandemic. We are the floor. Hard to go lower than the floor.

The point about the intel is that Trump had more info than probably God and did a bad job. Biden maybe had Jesus H. Christ level intel and would have also done a bad job, hypothetically.
How do you or I know the intel Trump was given was good? Or enough to form a solid decision? I mean see, I can make excuses too....
 

GhostOf301

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It's a virus. If you're going to be critical of anyone, be critical of Xi and Chy-na. We are a country that is governed by individual states. Nearly all governors said that Trump and his administration were providing phenomenal support and giving their states everything they asked for. They praised his handling of the virus until political season arrived.


Trump never said it wasn't a big deal. What he did was give overly and probably irresponsible optimistic predictions on when it would go away and how to treat it. His biggest mistake was being too optimistic. But his experts have said publicly and under oath to congress that he has taken their advice and has never gone against their recommendations. People want to pin this whole thing on him because they already hated him prior to the virus. It almost a sadistic celebration by the left that it even happened.
 
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brooky03

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Dude, she wiggled around this, with that answer---"People CALLING THEMSELVES.....She didn't directly call out Antifa. MOF, she insinuates with this statement that the people using violent actions may or may not be associated with antifa...

Man you guys would follow sheep off a mountain...
Antifa isn’t a group she can call out. They don’t fly in for antifa conventions with antifa hats and antifa refreshments. It was also 2017, when it was a more ambiguous movement, or whatever you want to call it.

You really want to split hairs over that? Lol
 

brooky03

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How do you or I know the intel Trump was given was good? Or enough to form a solid decision? I mean see, I can make excuses too....
Stick to your argument. You were arguing that Biden would have done worse than Trump. Trump did about as bad a job you can do. If he had bad intel, Biden had worse intel. If he had great intel, Biden had good intel. That’s secondary to the point, anyway.

The quotes you posted that are supposed to be damning only show that Biden would have done a bad job, not that it would have been worse than what Trump did. Trump’s quotes and actions are no better than what you posted.
 

brooky03

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Here's just one article. The below quote is from a group of economists not overly friendly to Trump.

"But even they acknowledge that the current numbers are a uniquely Trumpian achievement and not owed to policies already set in motion when he took office."

So, are they just lying or not as good at economics as you?

You're 100% wrong on this man.
Before declaring somebody 100% wrong, learn a little about what the heck you’re talking about.

We could post opinion articles on both sides of the argument for days and days. We’re discussing opinion, not facts. Don’t approach this as if you’re dropping facts.

Here’s a random opinion article I found, too. Are we really going to do a Google-off?
 

GhostOf301

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I feel like I’m arguing with a child.
Definitely a mutual feeling.

You act like classifying peaceful protests as peaceful and also denouncing violence are mutually exclusive. Why?

I feel like I’m arguing with a child. If you say there were massive riots and a whole city was burning, I can’t point out that it was actually one city block, a couple dozen non-protestors, and a handful of businesses? Why? I can’t call a separate, peaceful protest peaceful? I can’t also say rioters are bad and people shouldn’t burn buildings or harm other people? Why?
Billions of dollars in damages. The most costly man made disaster in American history. How many dozens of deaths? How many people's lives have been ruined, businesses that were already struggling destroyed? How many non peaceful protests were not peaceful byt because they didn't involve fires or looting? Haha.

Everyone knows the difference between peaceful and non peaceful protests except for you guys. Most people know that despite the fact, yes, the fact that overall the number of protests that were peaceful outnumber the non peaceful protests, the ends did not justify the means. We are not stronger as a nation because of the protests. Racial relations have not improved and black people are still being shot by police.

So just because it's only a few city blocks, it's only a few bad actors, it's only a few businesses and it's only a few people dead because of these mainly peaceful protest doesn't mean that they haven't been terrible for our country. And quite frankly, for a bunch of pussies who whine about empathy and how the nazi conservatives lack it, you assholes sure lack empathy for the "few people" who have lost loved ones, homes, businesses and livelihoods because of these mainly peaceful protests.

It took 100 days for Nancy Pelosi and Joe Biden to say anything substantial about the violence and destruction and Harris still hasn't. Flip the roles here and it would be a bigger issue for you guys. Hell, Trump can literally condemn white supremacy and you people twist it to say he refused to.
 
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SNU0821

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Before declaring somebody 100% wrong, learn a little about what the heck you’re talking about.

We could post opinion articles on both sides of the argument for days and days. We’re discussing opinion, not facts. Don’t approach this as if you’re dropping facts.

Here’s a random opinion article I found, too. Are we really going to do a Google-off?
You are wrong. This isn’t even advanced economics. To say the policies and some decisions Trump has made didn’t directly push economy higher than we would have gone under Hillary just proves one of two things. One, you don’t really understand this stuff at all. Or the second is you’re completely biased and partisan and can’t bring yourself to give credit where it’s due.

Actually think it may be both...
 

toonces11

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Definitely a mutual feeling.


Billions of dollars in damages. The most costly man made disaster in American history. How many dozens of deaths? How many people's lives have been ruined, businesses that were already struggling destroyed? How many non peaceful protests were not peaceful byt because they didn't involve fires or looting? Haha.

Everyone knows the difference between peaceful and non peaceful protests except for you guys. Most people know that despite the fact, yes, the fact that overall the number of protests that were peaceful outnumber the non peaceful protests, the ends did not justify the means. We are not stronger as a nation because of the protests. Racial relations have not improved and black people are still being shot by police.

So just because it's only a few city blocks, it's only a few bad actors, it's only a few businesses and it's only a few people dead because of these mainly peaceful protest doesn't mean that they haven't been terrible for our country. And quite frankly, for a bunch of pussies who whine about empathy and how the nazi conservatives lack it, you assholes sure lack empathy for the "few people" who have lost loved ones, homes, businesses and livelihoods because of these mainly peaceful protests.

It took 100 days for Nancy Pelosi and Joe Biden to say anything substantial about the violence and destruction and Harris still hasn't. Flip the roles here and it would be a bigger issue for you guys. Hell, Trump can literally condemn white supremacy and you people twist it to say he refused to.
Its b/c they vote democrat. Its literally the same reason they feel trump doesnt repeated call out far right groups. Its just tough for liberals to say it out loud. Just another example of liberals asking others to do what they aren't willing to do themselves.
 

TheDude1

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1. I have health insurance..

2. Historical debt----How much of that is attributed to COVID? Or the prior administration?

3. Stock market was booming before COVID---No democrat needed. Economy as well.

Drama queen? Since I asked a simple question---I'm a drama queen?

4. I got financial help first time around...Maybe if Pelosi would give a little, I'd again get help...Seems to me the Republicans have made numerous offers---But Pelosi will not budge off the 2T threshold.
When I said that if Biden we’re elected things would probably be fine, you responded with “Do you honestly believe this?” Maybe you were being serious, but I took it as sarcasm. Obviously I believe it. I’m glad you have health insurance… A lot more people will likely keep it if Biden is elected who wouldn’t otherwise.. Trump has made it clear he wants to get rid of the ACA but has not, in nearly four years, actually proposed an alternative. That historic debt is not related to covid or the prior administration, which I am assuming you MUST know... in his first three years, pre pandemic, Trumps total deficit was roughly 65 percent more than Obamas total in his last three years, post great recession... and that’s not even including the 16 trillion dollar hit we would take if Trumps payroll tax cut became permanent. Yes, the stock market was doing great under Obama, and continued (although not at as good a rate) under Trump... and guess what? Just as it does with every democrat (since 1946 the S&P 500 has on average gained 11 percent under Democratic presidents, and just 6% under Republican presidents) it would likely continue under Biden.

So yeah... we would probably be fine with Biden. I don’t think he is a superstar, but he would be basically solid and stable and surround himself with solid, experienced people, and right now that is that we need, rather than Trump, who nobody would consider solid and stable and who has had ten members of his Cabinet leave in just three years, compared with Clinton who only had four go in four years, Bush who only had two go in four years, and Obama who only had three go in four years... and yes, that means Trump has had more Cabinet positions change in three years than the last three presidents had change in 12... and I won’t even get into the fact that Trump has had a 91 percent turnover rate in his “A team” positions, with nearly 40 percent of those positions turning over several times.
 

brooky03

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Definitely a mutual feeling.


Billions of dollars in damages. The most costly man made disaster in American history. How many dozens of deaths? How many people's lives have been ruined, businesses that were already struggling destroyed? How many non peaceful protests were not peaceful byt because they didn't involve fires or looting? Haha.

Everyone knows the difference between peaceful and non peaceful protests except for you guys. Most people know that despite the fact, yes, the fact that overall the number of protests that were peaceful outnumber the non peaceful protests, the ends did not justify the means. We are not stronger as a nation because of the protests. Racial relations have not improved and black people are still being shot by police.

So just because it's only a few city blocks, it's only a few bad actors, it's only a few businesses and it's only a few people dead because of these mainly peaceful protest doesn't mean that they haven't been terrible for our country. And quite frankly, for a bunch of pussies who whine about empathy and how the nazi conservatives lack it, you assholes sure lack empathy for the "few people" who have lost loved ones, homes, businesses and livelihoods because of these mainly peaceful protests.

It took 100 days for Nancy Pelosi and Joe Biden to say anything substantial about the violence and destruction and Harris still hasn't. Flip the roles here and it would be a bigger issue for you guys. Hell, Trump can literally condemn white supremacy and you people twist it to say he refused to.
HOW ARE PROTESTS THAT WERE PEACEFUL NOT PEACEFUL?

HOW IS IMMEDIATELY CONDEMNING VIOLENCE NOT IMMEDIATELY CONDEMNING VIOLENCE?
 

GhostOf301

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You hate to see it!
Before I get accused of being a proud boy. I do not support them. I want all idiots who gather in the streets, especially those who do so with violent intentions, to go the hell home. Although they are mostly peaceful, they have no place in our society.
 

GhostOf301

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HOW ARE PROTESTS THAT WERE PEACEFUL NOT PEACEFUL?

HOW IS IMMEDIATELY CONDEMNING VIOLENCE NOT IMMEDIATELY CONDEMNING VIOLENCE?
Something about the forests and the trees. Yeah. Enjoy refusing to see the overall point. I would ask who immediately condemned the violence, but why bother. You rationalize and explain away everything.
 

brooky03

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Something about the forests and the trees. Yeah. Enjoy refusing to see the overall point. I would ask who immediately condemned the violence, but why bother. You rationalize and explain away everything.
Joe Biden condemned violence a week after George Floyd’s death and again during a speech on June 2nd. Do you dispute this?

Have your opinions. You don’t get to have your own facts.
 

TheDude1

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Uh... this is Trumps own former National Security Advisor, making this statement.


So do any of the more reasonable conservatives here even care when stuff like this comes out? Seriously? I know most of you dislike Trump personally, but at some point does any of this make you second guess his suitability for office?
 

toonces11

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Joe Biden condemned violence a week after George Floyd’s death and again during a speech on June 2nd. Do you dispute this?

Have your opinions. You don’t get to have your own facts.
Ok---Did Trump not condemn white supremacists?
 

TheDude1

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Ok---Did Trump not condemn white supremacists?
When you say “there were fine people on both sides” and immediately pivot to antifa and dont actually condemn them when asked in a presidential debate, to the point where right wing groups applaud you and say that you've called them to arms and are on their side... well, it sort of undermines any attempts, doesnt it?
 
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Jaycg15

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Ah the days of the dignified Republican candidate. It's been awhile.

 

SNU0821

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Uh... this is Trumps own former National Security Advisor, making this statement.



So do any of the more reasonable conservatives here even care when stuff like this comes out? Seriously? I know most of you dislike Trump personally, but at some point does any of this make you second guess his suitability for office?
Nope. Dislike the Democrats, their policies and what they stand for more than anything like this against Trump.
 

GhostOf301

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Nope. Dislike the Democrats, their policies and what they stand for more than anything like this against Trump.
Isn't it funny that he has most of the conservatives on ignore, but posts these obsessive Russia Russia Russia tweets and asks for conservatives to give their opinions? I laugh.

But yeah. I've completely flipped on my values and issues that I consider most important because a former advisor with an obvious axe to grind says, muh Russia.

I think Trump is a threat to the establishment, so the establishment is convincing the public that Trump is a threat to democracy. These people need war and Trump won't start one for them.
 
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IUfanBorden

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When I said that if Biden we’re elected things would probably be fine, you responded with “Do you honestly believe this?” Maybe you were being serious, but I took it as sarcasm. Obviously I believe it. I’m glad you have health insurance… A lot more people will likely keep it if Biden is elected who wouldn’t otherwise.. Trump has made it clear he wants to get rid of the ACA but has not, in nearly four years, actually proposed an alternative. That historic debt is not related to covid or the prior administration, which I am assuming you MUST know... in his first three years, pre pandemic, Trumps total deficit was roughly 65 percent more than Obamas total in his last three years, post great recession... and that’s not even including the 16 trillion dollar hit we would take if Trumps payroll tax cut became permanent. Yes, the stock market was doing great under Obama, and continued (although not at as good a rate) under Trump... and guess what? Just as it does with every democrat (since 1946 the S&P 500 has on average gained 11 percent under Democratic presidents, and just 6% under Republican presidents) it would likely continue under Biden.

So yeah... we would probably be fine with Biden. I don’t think he is a superstar, but he would be basically solid and stable and surround himself with solid, experienced people, and right now that is that we need, rather than Trump, who nobody would consider solid and stable and who has had ten members of his Cabinet leave in just three years, compared with Clinton who only had four go in four years, Bush who only had two go in four years, and Obama who only had three go in four years... and yes, that means Trump has had more Cabinet positions change in three years than the last three presidents had change in 12... and I won’t even get into the fact that Trump has had a 91 percent turnover rate in his “A team” positions, with nearly 40 percent of those positions turning over several times.
"a lot more people will probably keep it(insurance) if Biden is elected...."

Probably? You are gonna vote on a "probably"?

We lost our insurance b/c of ObamaCare...I guess we were on the wrong side of "probably", huh?

I get a kick out of when the stock market or the economy is brought up, and your answers are..."Yes the stock market was doing great under Obama....and the economy...." You just cannot bring yourself to give Trump one ounce of credit, can you? I mean do you really loathe the guy that much? I agree both were doing fine under Obama...But thing is----that was almost 4 years ago. Prior to COVID, the market AND the economy were as strong as they had been in a long time...Unemployment was at a 50-year low. But yeah I know----That's b/c of Obama... Laughing
 

IUfanBorden

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Stick to your argument. You were arguing that Biden would have done worse than Trump. Trump did about as bad a job you can do. If he had bad intel, Biden had worse intel. If he had great intel, Biden had good intel. That’s secondary to the point, anyway.

The quotes you posted that are supposed to be damning only show that Biden would have done a bad job, not that it would have been worse than what Trump did. Trump’s quotes and actions are no better than what you posted.
Laughing.....

It ain't hard, Brooky....Trump closed the borders, and the shit was still bad. Biden was against closing the borders.....I mean bro you ain't gotta be a genius to figure this one out...
 
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SNU0821

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Laughing.....

It ain't hard, Brooky....Trump closed the borders, and the shit was still bad. Biden was against closing the borders.....I mean bro you ain't gotta be a genius to figure this one out...
Yeah man. It’s not rocket science. Trump shut travel down and was criticized by Democrats. But sure....Biden would have done better. Laughing
 

brooky03

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Laughing.....

It ain't hard, Brooky....Trump closed the borders, and the shit was still bad. Biden was against closing the borders.....I mean bro you ain't gotta be a genius to figure this one out...

People who know more about this than you or I disagree that Trump’s China (and Europe) travel bans did much to contain Covid.

Next?
 

brooky03

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Yeah man. It’s not rocket science. Trump shut travel down and was criticized by Democrats. But sure....Biden would have done better. Laughing
The argument isn’t that Biden would have done better. He could have; nobody knows. Since banning international travel is shown not to have much of an effect (experts say this, not my opinion), it’s reasonable to say Biden wouldn’t have done much worse.

Hell, maybe he would have banned travel and was only against it because he wanted to be different than Trump. A tactic Trump and many politicians often employ.
 

IUfanBorden

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That historic debt is not related to covid or the prior administration, which I am assuming you MUST know... in his first three years, pre pandemic, Trumps total deficit was roughly 65 percent more than Obamas total in his last three years, post great recession... and that’s not even including the 16 trillion dollar hit we would take if Trumps payroll tax cut became permanent. Yes, the stock market was doing great under Obama, and continued (although not at as good a rate) under Trump... and guess what? Just as it does with every democrat (since 1946 the S&P 500 has on average gained 11 percent under Democratic presidents, and just 6% under Republican presidents) it would likely continue under Biden.
Weird.....I could have swore that Obama added more to the national debt(dollar wise), than any President in history....Or am I misspoken? His 74% increase was 5th most ever---right?

I mean truth be told----the national debt has increased basically under every US President----correct?

Also, YES the COVID pandemic has influenced the national debt----by some $2 trillion dollars.

Trump has added $4.8 trillion to the national debt----a 24% increase. WHich in historic terms, isn't bad at all. MOF, percentage wise, it would be the lowest since Lyndon B. Johnson(13%).

If Trump were to stay in office, his plan would add $8.3 trillion(both terms). Obama added $8.58 trillion..

Now go ahead, fire up the excuses...
 
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IUfanBorden

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The argument isn’t that Biden would have done better. He could have; nobody knows. Since banning international travel is shown not to have much of an effect (experts say this, not my opinion), it’s reasonable to say Biden wouldn’t have done much worse.

Hell, maybe he would have banned travel and was only against it because he wanted to be different than Trump. A tactic Trump and many politicians often employ.
Fair enough.....But then he(Biden) was also against wearing mask....So, I mean, there is that as well.

Would he have done worse? Hell I dunno. But I think how he perceived COVID, its not a stretch to think he would have.
 

IUfanBorden

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People who know more about this than you or I disagree that Trump’s China (and Europe) travel bans did much to contain Covid.

Next?
Sure....

February 29 - Biden Public Health Advisory Committee member Dr. Zeke Emanuel said, “So, the public, running out and getting a mask is not going to help.”

What are those same people who know more about this than you or I saying---saying about mask?
 

brooky03

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Sure....

February 29 - Biden Public Health Advisory Committee member Dr. Zeke Emanuel said, “So, the public, running out and getting a mask is not going to help.”

What are those same people who know more about this than you or I saying---saying about mask?
probably saying to wear a mask...

point?
 

brooky03

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Fair enough.....But then he(Biden) was also against wearing mask....So, I mean, there is that as well.

Would he have done worse? Hell I dunno. But I think how he perceived COVID, its not a stretch to think he would have.
and Trump is still against wearing masks.
 

IUfanBorden

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and Trump is still against wearing masks.
If by "questioning their effectiveness" you mean against, then sure...BTW, Trump has said Fauci commented----"mask aren't good...." So maybe that had someting to do with it...

Ya know, its all about that intel thingy...Laughing
 
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