Trump/ Biden I: The Battle for the Oval Office..

dukedevilz

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oter turnout. If it were me, my focus would be on getting that 5% of the Black vote back.

Maybe. Just seems eye-opening that Latinos and Asians have been sort of apolitical. How would those polls be effected if a Andrew Yang, Julian Castro, or Marco Rubio were running? It's never happened before. Got a 5% bump with Obama. Maybe we could see a 4-8% bump with an Asian or Latino candidate. A Latino candidate would make the most sense because they're actually the largest minority in the country.
 

brooky03

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Don't disagree. I'm assuming it's gonna get him some boost however big or small for actually doing justice reform. That along with the record low unemployment for the black community has to at least make some people think about voting for him. With how consistent the black community is for democrats, it's hard to think it's going to just change on a dime for Trump. However, if he does get a few percentage point more than in 2016, that could be a big help for him.
The record low Black unemployment rate probably doesn’t factor in because it was mostly just a continuation of low unemployment they saw at the end of the prior administration. Trump took it from 8-ish to 6-ish. Not a bad thing but idk if that’s enough to swing Black votes when there’s a valid argument it was a product of policies put in place by the last administration. Trump gets some credit but maybe not as much as he’d hope for.

His handling of Covid is not perceived well, generally. The disproportionate effect it has had on minority populations might make it a more significant point for them than a lot of other factors.
 
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TheDude1

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The record low Black unemployment rate probably doesn’t factor in because it was mostly just a continuation of low unemployment they saw at the end of the prior administration. Trump took it from 8-ish to 6-ish. Not a bad thing but idk if that’s enough to swing Black votes when there’s a valid argument it was a product of policies put in place by the last administration. Trump gets some credit but maybe not as much as he’d hope for.

His handling of Covid is not perceived well, generally. The disproportionate effect it has had on minority populations might make it a more significant point for them than a lot of other factors.
Yes to all of these, and I think this, and a lot of other things, really undermined what should be a strong point for Trump: his crime reform work.
 

SNU0821

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The record low Black unemployment rate probably doesn’t factor in because it was mostly just a continuation of low unemployment they saw at the end of the prior administration. Trump took it from 8-ish to 6-ish. Not a bad thing but idk if that’s enough to swing Black votes when there’s a valid argument it was a product of policies put in place by the last administration. Trump gets some credit but maybe not as much as he’d hope for.

His handling of Covid is not perceived well, generally. The disproportionate effect it has had on minority populations might make it a more significant point for them than a lot of other factors.
Yeah, again don't disagree. I'm interested to see how this all plays out. The black Trump supporters are dead set that it's going to be a meaning full increase, and even some polling (TIFWIW) has shown an increase in support from the black community. But I'll believe it when I see it. Not holding my breath on that one. Lol.
 

lurkeraspect84

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BTW, it would be f'ing crazy if the first woman president was Harris, taking over if something happened to Biden. Would be a shame, too, bc there would always be an * next to her place in history.
If by * you mean asshole, she already has one.
 
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lurkeraspect84

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The record low Black unemployment rate probably doesn’t factor in because it was mostly just a continuation of low unemployment they saw at the end of the prior administration. Trump took it from 8-ish to 6-ish. Not a bad thing but idk if that’s enough to swing Black votes when there’s a valid argument it was a product of policies put in place by the last administration. Trump gets some credit but maybe not as much as he’d hope for.

His handling of Covid is not perceived well, generally. The disproportionate effect it has had on minority populations might make it a more significant point for them than a lot of other factors.
Memphis AA we know/work with etc. voted Hillary in '06, but will be voting Trump this time. The signs around town are probably 2-3 to 1 Trump over Biden. I can't speak for everyone but I think ppl underestimate how many ppl will vote with their wallets than skin color. We work downtown or close to it so I imagine it's even higher than 3-1 in the suburbs.

We've also not had any rioting/looting etc. They had some very peaceful protest ...I wouldn't even call them protest as it was more like a mourning for Floyd.


*With that said, I still wouldn't wear MAGA red hat. It's the ppl who couldn't tell you the difference between a R and a D who would start shit.
 
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mebeblue2

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Democrats don’t like people shooting police and destroying things. They’ve consistently spoken out against that stuff.
have they called out the groups doing it or the people funding them?
if the answer is NO then they clearly are not speaking out against it
 
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TheDude1

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have they called out the groups doing it or the people funding them?
if the answer is NO then they clearly are not speaking out against it
Of course they've called them out.

But there aren't really any specific, organized groups doing it... its far more smaller, local groups or simply mobs of assholes. And these mobs don't generally have funding.

So I don't know quite what you are looking for?
 
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TheDude1

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I meant Biden.

..and Harris can't be that bad, they don't call her Heels up Harris for nothing.
Yeah, she's a handsome woman I suppose. I don't know... my standards are low, but she doesn't do it for me.

To be honest, I'm STUNNED that more hasn't been made out of her whole affair thing. Stunned. I think that Trump (and Biden, sort of) just sucks all of the air out of the room.
 

SNU0821

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Of course they've called them out.

But there aren't really any specific, organized groups doing it... its far more smaller, local groups or simply mobs of assholes. And these mobs don't generally have funding.

So I don't know quite what you are looking for?
This is the deflection that conservatives don't like.

Sure it's easy to call out the groups. BLM and Antifa. Both of those groups are at the protests when they riot and loot. All a Democrat would have to do is just say, anyone protesting with BLM or Antifa needs to not riot and we condemn both groups for having members participate in the violence and destruction.

They wont....
 
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lurkeraspect84

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This is the deflection that conservatives don't like.

Sure it's easy to call out the groups. BLM and Antifa. Both of those groups are at the protests when they riot and loot. All a Democrat would have to do is just say, anyone protesting with BLM or Antifa needs to not riot and we condemn both groups for having members participate in the violence and destruction.

They wont....
They can't.
 
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brooky03

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Memphis AA we know/work with etc. voted Hillary in '06, but will be voting Trump this time. The signs around town are probably 2-3 to 1 Trump over Biden. I can't speak for everyone but I think ppl underestimate how many ppl will vote with their wallets than skin color. We work downtown or close to it so I imagine it's even higher than 3-1 in the suburbs.

We've also not had any rioting/looting etc. They had some very peaceful protest ...I wouldn't even call them protest as it was more like a mourning for Floyd.


*With that said, I still wouldn't wear MAGA red hat. It's the ppl who couldn't tell you the difference between a R and a D who would start shit.
In terms of having a job, Black people voting with their wallets didn’t see an appreciable difference between the Obama and Trump administrations. Like I said, at the end of the Obama administration, Black unemployment was very low. It went slightly lower (2 percentage points) under Trump. There’s a good argument that was just a continuation of the trajectory it was on under Obama, not tied to any economic policy or legislation from Trump.

Now, if they think Trump is the one who can bring it back down to pre-Covid levels and Biden can’t, then so be it.
 

brooky03

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have they called out the groups doing it or the people funding them?
if the answer is NO then they clearly are not speaking out against it
Yes. An example off the top of my head is Pelosi specifically calling for violent antifa rioters to be prosecuted.
 

SNU0821

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Yes. An example off the top of my head is Pelosi specifically calling for violent antifa rioters to be prosecuted.
Proof of her actually saying Antifa rioters need to be prosecuted? No way she actually calls them by name...
 

brooky03

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Proof of her actually saying Antifa rioters need to be prosecuted? No way she actually calls them by name...
“Our democracy has no room for inciting violence or endangering the public, no matter the ideology of those who commit such acts,” Pelosi said in her statement. “The violent actions of people calling themselves antifa in Berkeley this weekend deserve unequivocal condemnation, and the perpetrators should be arrested and prosecuted.”
 
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SNU0821

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In terms of having a job, Black people voting with their wallets didn’t see an appreciable difference between the Obama and Trump administrations. Like I said, at the end of the Obama administration, Black unemployment was very low. It went slightly lower (2 percentage points) under Trump. There’s a good argument that was just a continuation of the trajectory it was on under Obama, not tied to any economic policy or legislation from Trump.

Now, if they think Trump is the one who can bring it back down to pre-Covid levels and Biden can’t, then so be it.
This is fundamentally untrue, and we're probably splitting hairs here, there is a difference between the Obama and Trump administrations from an economic perspective that's simple to understand. Wage growth. Over the last seven plus years of the Obama administration the wage growth was very low. That's gotten better under Trump. His tax cuts absolutely helped most Americans to some degree. Obviously some more than others, but most people benefitted from the tax cuts in one way shape or form.
 

SNU0821

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“Our democracy has no room for inciting violence or endangering the public, no matter the ideology of those who commit such acts,” Pelosi said in her statement. “The violent actions of people calling themselves antifa in Berkeley this weekend deserve unequivocal condemnation, and the perpetrators should be arrested and prosecuted.”
When was that?
 

TheDude1

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“Our democracy has no room for inciting violence or endangering the public, no matter the ideology of those who commit such acts,” Pelosi said in her statement. “The violent actions of people calling themselves antifa in Berkeley this weekend deserve unequivocal condemnation, and the perpetrators should be arrested and prosecuted.”
Yeah, this has been pretty common.

I don't get why on earth conservatives think that Democrats endorse this violence.

Guys, most Democrats are sooooort of pussies. And images of riots and burning buildings and all of that do NOT help Democrats. They don't help fund raising. They don't bring in votes. It only gives Republicans something to grab on to... "Look at what is happening in the cities! Look at how they hate our cops!" If there was no burning and violent riots, that would be IDEAL, politically, for Democrats... what would be left? Peaceful protests about race, Trump's handling of covid, a collapsed economy, impeachment, climate issues, etc etc? I mean, *Trump's own people* have agreed with this, that these events just give them more to work with.

I don't get it. I don't get why on earth anyone would think this helps Democrats, and that they endorse it. The ONLY thing I can think of is that people just cannot separate peaceful protests over racial injustice from assholes and violence, or cannot understand that both things can happen in the same city at the same time.

Edit: I think also the most radical individuals on social media are somehow taken to represent the overall party, even when the party itself loudly and clearly denounces violence.
 
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brooky03

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This is fundamentally untrue, and we're probably splitting hairs here, there is a difference between the Obama and Trump administrations from an economic perspective that's simple to understand. Wage growth. Over the last seven plus years of the Obama administration the wage growth was very low. That's gotten better under Trump. His tax cuts absolutely helped most Americans to some degree. Obviously some more than others, but most people benefitted from the tax cuts in one way shape or form.
The benefit is exaggerated. Any benefit is good and wage growth is good, obviously. But the lowest earners didn’t see much of that benefit. The tax cuts weren’t huge; we’re talking a few hundred dollars for many, mostly benefitting higher earners. Another key point in wage growth is state laws that increased minimum wage. Some of the largest states (NY and Cali) enacted and implemented legislation to increase minimum wages. Trump didn’t have a hand in that but likely gets a boost in his wage growth numbers, regardless.
 
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SNU0821

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The benefit is exaggerated. Any benefit is good and wage growth is good, obviously. But the lowest earners didn’t see much of that benefit. The tax cuts weren’t huge; we’re talking a few hundred dollars for many, mostly benefitting higher earners. Another key point in wage growth is state laws that increased minimum wage. Some of the largest states (NY and Cali) enacted and implemented legislation to increase minimum wages. Trump didn’t have a hand in that but likely gets a boost in his wage growth numbers, regardless.
I hear you on not everyone getting a huge amount, but you have to also consider the impact of $500 or $1,000 on a lower income person or a lower middle class person or a single mom. That actually DOES make an impact. And it's been widely reported that most Americans got some benefit one way or another from the tax cuts.

It doesn't take a ton to have a significant impact on some lives.
 

SNU0821

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Yeah, this has been pretty common.

I don't get why on earth conservatives think that Democrats endorse this violence.

Guys, most Democrats are sooooort of pussies. And images of riots and burning buildings and all of that do NOT help Democrats. They don't help fund raising. They don't bring in votes. It only gives Republicans something to grab on to... "Look at what is happening in the cities! Look at how they hate our cops!" If there was no burning and violent riots, that would be IDEAL, politically, for Democrats... what would be left? Peaceful protests about race, Trump's handling of covid, a collapsed economy, impeachment, climate issues, etc etc? I mean, *Trump's own people* have agreed with this, that these events just give them more to work with.

I don't get it. I don't get why on earth anyone would think this helps Democrats, and that they endorse it. The ONLY thing I can think of is that people just cannot separate peaceful protests over racial injustice from assholes and violence, or cannot understand that both things can happen in the same city at the same time.
Sounds a lot like Trump's "there are good people on both sides" comment.

You're condemning one part and saying there are good people on the other side. Sorry. Can't have it both ways.
 

SNU0821

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So why did it take her over 100 days to say anything substantial against violence and destruction THIS year?
Easy. Because the publics view of the protests/riots took a turn for the worse and against them.
 

JimboBBN

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This is the deflection that conservatives don't like.

Sure it's easy to call out the groups. BLM and Antifa. Both of those groups are at the protests when they riot and loot. All a Democrat would have to do is just say, anyone protesting with BLM or Antifa needs to not riot and we condemn both groups for having members participate in the violence and destruction.

They wont....
Democrats: Call out a racist group that isn’t actually racist

Also Democrats: no, we can’t call out these crazy people because they don’t actually exist
 
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brooky03

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This is the deflection that conservatives don't like.

Sure it's easy to call out the groups. BLM and Antifa. Both of those groups are at the protests when they riot and loot. All a Democrat would have to do is just say, anyone protesting with BLM or Antifa needs to not riot and we condemn both groups for having members participate in the violence and destruction.

They wont....
@lurkeraspect84

I’ve just finished reading source after source of Democrats advising BLM protestors not to be violent and destructive.

This is what Liberals don’t like; misinformation generated by fear-mongering that does not reflect reality.

Federal prosecutors, in Portland for example, couldn’t link those who were arrested to any specific antifa group, or even antifa at all.
 

IUfanBorden

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Ahhhh Borden.

Yes, if a relatively middle of the road guy like Joe Biden gets elected, things will likely go basically fine.

You might get some healthcare help.

You might get some financial help.

We likely won’t continue with historical debt, since debt tends to drop when Democrats are in office.

The stock market will improve, since the stock market tends to improve when Democrats are in office.

There will likely be some environmental changes, since Democrats tend to pass laws protecting water and air.

Taxes might increase a bit on the richest Americans, but they wouldn’t increase for you any more than under most presidents.

I‘m sure there would be some bumps in the road, but yeah, Borden, if Biden is elected, things would likely go just fine, just as they were basically fine under the last few Democratic presidents. Don’t be a drama queen.
1. I have health insurance..

2. Historical debt----How much of that is attributed to COVID? Or the prior administration?

3. Stock market was booming before COVID---No democrat needed. Economy as well.

Drama queen? Since I asked a simple question---I'm a drama queen?

4. I got financial help first time around...Maybe if Pelosi would give a little, I'd again get help...Seems to me the Republicans have made numerous offers---But Pelosi will not budge off the 2T threshold.
 
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GhostOf301

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It didn’t.

Didn’t you and I go over this already?
You're so confident that she condemned violence and rioting prior to her finally doing it on the House floor in late September, why can't you provide her statements previous to that?

The narrative, yours included, has always been that conservatives exaggerate the violence and the destruction and that these protests have been mainly peaceful and anyone who says differently is against peaceful demonstrations. Now, these same people have no problems speaking up against the violence and the destruction. Why?
 
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IUfanBorden

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You said Biden would handle Covid worse than Trump. I said he wouldn’t. You didn’t provide any evidence to show that he would have handled the virus worse. Where exactly is the spin in that?

And the President unequivocally has more information relayed to him than any other US politician. That’s not really debatable.
Brother, I showed you about 15 quotes to whereas his administration/people, and Biden himself, dismissed COVID as NOT being serious...I know, I know---Intell...Yeah, yeah.

No one ever said the President doesn't get more info relayed to him, than any other politician. I never said, nor implied that. But its an expected response from you---Its a "spin". If you do not think that Trump and the WH did not share info with Pelosi and Schummer, the two most powerful dems in COngress, then well, okie doke. And even the info was not shared---You are telling me that those two9Pelosi/Schummer) did not get intel/info on COVID? Come on, brother...

To dismiss Bidens response to COVID as not having intel, or as much, is ****ing asinine.
 
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brooky03

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1. I have health insurance..

2. Historical debt----How much of that is attributed to COVID? Or the prior administration?

3. Stock market was booming before COVID---No democrat needed. Economy as well.

Drama queen? Since I asked a simple question---I'm a drama queen?

4. I got financial help first time around...Maybe if Pelosi would give a little, I'd again get help...Seems to me the Republicans have made numerous offers---But Pelosi will not budge off the 2T threshold.
1. Good

2. Trump increased the debt at record levels before Covid. Republicans don’t have a track record of curtailing spending/borrowing.

3. Stock market did well in Obama’s last 4 years, too. Not sure your point. Trump didn’t wave a wand and make it ‘boom.’ Causality and correlation are different.

4. I would like a stimulus check too.
 

GhostOf301

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I remember at the beginning stages of the worldwide spread of the virus, Trump said there was no reason to not take the subways, buses or go out to eat. I remember him encouraging people to gather in large crowds in San Francisco and NYC to celebrate a Chinese holiday. I remember him mocking the idea of quarantine.

Oh wait.....
 
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brooky03

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Brother, I showed you about 15 quotes to whereas his administration/people, and Biden himself, dismissed COVID as NOT being serious...I know, I know---Intell...Yeah, yeah.

No one ever said the President doesn't get more info relayed to him, than any other politician. I never said, nor implied that. But its an expected response from you---Its a "spin". If you do not think that Trump and the WH did not share info with Pelosi and Schummer, the two most powerful dems in COngress, then well, okie doke. And even the info was not shared---You are telling me that those two9Pelosi/Schummer) did not get intel/info on COVID? Come on, brother...

To dismiss Bidens response to COVID as not having intel, or as much, is ****ing asinine.
Trump also dismissed it as being not a big deal. That’s my point, bud. You’re comparing the two. Relative to Trump not handling it well, it seems Biden equally wouldn’t have handle it well, at worst. On the global scale, America did the worst job with this pandemic. We are the floor. Hard to go lower than the floor.

The point about the intel is that Trump had more info than probably God and did a bad job. Biden maybe had Jesus H. Christ level intel and would have also done a bad job, hypothetically.
 

SNU0821

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1. Good

2. Trump increased the debt at record levels before Covid. Republicans don’t have a track record of curtailing spending/borrowing.

3. Stock market did well in Obama’s last 4 years, too. Not sure your point. Trump didn’t wave a wand and make it ‘boom.’ Causality and correlation are different.

4. I would like a stimulus check too.
As to #3, Trump did do several things that led to incremental growth we wouldn't have experienced under a Hillary Clinton administration. He did really make it take off from where it was.
 

brooky03

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You're so confident that she condemned violence and rioting prior to her finally doing it on the House floor in late September, why can't you provide her statements previous to that?

The narrative, yours included, has always been that conservatives exaggerate the violence and the destruction and that these protests have been mainly peaceful and anyone who says differently is against peaceful demonstrations. Now, these same people have no problems speaking up against the violence and the destruction. Why?
You act like classifying peaceful protests as peaceful and also denouncing violence are mutually exclusive. Why?

I feel like I’m arguing with a child. If you say there were massive riots and a whole city was burning, I can’t point out that it was actually one city block, a couple dozen non-protestors, and a handful of businesses? Why? I can’t call a separate, peaceful protest peaceful? I can’t also say rioters are bad and people shouldn’t burn buildings or harm other people? Why?
 

brooky03

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As to #3, Trump did do several things that led to incremental growth we wouldn't have experienced under a Hillary Clinton administration. He did really make it take off from where it was.
He did not. I’m okay agreeing to disagree on this.
 

toonces11

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Trump also dismissed it as being not a big deal. That’s my point, bud. You’re comparing the two. Relative to Trump not handling it well, it seems Biden equally wouldn’t have handle it well, at worst. On the global scale, America did the worst job with this pandemic. We are the floor. Hard to go lower than the floor.

The point about the intel is that Trump had more info than probably God and did a bad job. Biden maybe had Jesus H. Christ level intel and would have also done a bad job, hypothetically.
I wouldnt say we handled it the worst at all...we all know other countries don't----nevermind.
 

IUfanBorden

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“Our democracy has no room for inciting violence or endangering the public, no matter the ideology of those who commit such acts,” Pelosi said in her statement. “The violent actions of people calling themselves antifa in Berkeley this weekend deserve unequivocal condemnation, and the perpetrators should be arrested and prosecuted.”
Dude, she wiggled around this, with that answer---"People CALLING THEMSELVES.....She didn't directly call out Antifa. MOF, she insinuates with this statement that the people using violent actions may or may not be associated with antifa...

Man you guys would follow sheep off a mountain...