The Sideways Locomotive Thread; Your Level of Patriotism, Hot Takes and Overall General Nonsense

Discussion in 'College Basketball Board' started by Random UK Fan, Jul 3, 2019.

  1. TheDude1

    TheDude1 Well-Known Member
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    Ew.

    To be fair, found in our local ocean...

     
  2. lurkeraspect84

    lurkeraspect84 Well-Known Member
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    Random UK Fan and SNU0821 like this.
  3. Random UK Fan

    Random UK Fan Well-Known Member
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    I read a similar article the other day. Pretty cool.
     
  4. Random UK Fan

    Random UK Fan Well-Known Member
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  5. IUfanBorden

    IUfanBorden Well-Known Member
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    Well, you did....Unless I misunderstood your first sentence..
     
  6. MrBaracus

    MrBaracus Well-Known Member
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    Phones have had video capabilities for much longer than 5 years. But the media’s race-baiting tactics have definitely been ramped to an all-time high over that stretch.

    Just as you could talk about the writings or anecdotes of African Americans all day long, you can also find plenty who openly admit the race-baiting and exaggeration in the media.

    Like this guy, for example:



    There’s no denying that if there were more people that took this approach, instead of the “fuel the fire/instigate” approach, the country would be far more united and less dangerous.

    There is and always will be racial prejudice to some extent. No amount of time, and definitely no race-baiting talking heads, will eliminate it 100%. But instead of focusing on the progress, the media wants to zero in on every example of alleged racism (while ignoring reverse racism) to create a narrative that is way worse than reality. To the point that, as soon as an incident like George Floyd occurs, the black community is already so on edge that we’re an inch away from an all-out civil war. And the so-called progressive whites just add fuel to the fire. It’s all so ****ing absurd.

    The police are not systematically preying on black people. It’s fake news, and there isn’t data to support it. It’s also a very difficult thing to prove, making it an easy narrative to create. I mean, hell, the George Floyd video alone was enough proof for half the nation.

    The biggest problem will always be a media that routinely bombards us with noncontextual facts like “The rate at which black Americans are killed by police is more than TWICE the rate for white Americans!” What this leaves out is the fact that this difference breaks down to about one more per 100,000. Hardly enough to declare a systemic problem. And when you consider that 40% of cop-killers are black (a fact that actually is easy to verify/prove, yet is not discussed), it’s surprising the rate isn’t higher, honestly.

    The point isn’t to dismiss it or to argue that there’s no problem at all. Just that we’re not given an accurate representation, and that’s a much bigger problem. David Harris Jr gets it.
     
  7. SNU0821

    SNU0821 Well-Known Member
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    I follow him on Twitter. I like him, but he gets a little too “flaunty” if that’s even a word with his Trump support. But whenever I see him debate people or even this message, he is always dead on. Just seems like a normal guy. I appreciate That.
     
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  8. IUfanBorden

    IUfanBorden Well-Known Member
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    Very well put together, statement...I am not smart enough to say what you said----But its exactly what I have been trying to say. I am curious what @TheDude1 , will have to say----Or at least,what the books he has read, say..
     
  9. TheDude1

    TheDude1 Well-Known Member
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    Borden, don’t be a dick. It isn’t just books. I know people will get the usual defensiveness, but again... lived in Alpha Phi Alpha... worked with some teams that were 95 percent black... then taught in a town that is 90 percent black. It’s story after story after story after story. It is a common story, told by every single black person I’ve ever spoken to about it. It’s not only books (which, btw, are the detailed and thoughtful expressions of people... that has merit, you know...), but also experience and education and wisdom and the ability to listen.

    I don’t really need to shoot down what MrB said... he is seeing it from a single point of view. And it’s not an informed one. It isn’t about “the media”; that’s an incredibly “lazy” view, that the issues that millions of people are speaking passionately, issues informed by life experiences, are just brainwashed reactions spurred by “the media.” It’s about the combined experiences of nearly every African American alive today. From Colin Powell to Michael Steele, from Will Smith to Gail King, from Grant Hill to Cornell West, from Condi Rice to Neil deGrasse Tyson, from the most well known to the most anonymous... just about every one will tell you about the issues African Americans face in their general relationship with the law, and just about every one has a story.

    Can’t make it any clearer. When people say things like “The biggest problem will always be a media that routinely bombards us with noncontextual facts”... that THATS the biggest problem... not underlying currents of racism... you know it’s not going anywhere. I know most black people steer clear of this thread... I suspect most find it exhausting and a little depressing. Listen to me or blow it off... that’s on you. I suspect it has gotten a bit boring for most of us at this point, no?
     
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  10. IUfanBorden

    IUfanBorden Well-Known Member
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    1. "Worked with teams that were 95% black......taught in a town thats 90% black...
    .

    Just curious, exactly what did you think you were gonna hear,in those environments?

    2. "MrB is seeing it from a single point of view....And its not an informed one"

    How many points of view are you seeing it from? You just said that the stories you are hearing,are coming from roughly 95% of African-Americans...
    How/why is his point of view, not informed? Because it doesn't agree with yours?

    Here is the thing---I've yet to hear a single person on here not AGREE there is a problem. Not a one. Just most of us don't feel its as widespread, and/or as systematic as its made out to be. THing is----I've never heard you say, or even insinuate, that maybe its not as bad as you think it is. YET....you wanna tell us we are the ones being blind? Then you back your "facts" up with----I worked with teams that are 95% black....taught in towns that are 90% black, and I get the same story...Well, shocking.

    Look, the shit African-Americans had to deal with for hundreds of years is down right sad...And that word(sad) is an injustice to how they were treated. But we will NEVER move on, make more progress, as long as everytime its convenient, people bring up how Colin Powell was treated....Or slavery from 150 years ago. Its a "go to". DO I think more needs done? Absolutely. But more needs done on BOTH sides, brother. Not just white people.
     
  11. TheDude1

    TheDude1 Well-Known Member
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    Borden, what do I expect to hear?

    Black people telling me about their experiences. What, you think all black people are just going... to make shit up? To trick this one white dude? Those blacks... they just like to complain about stuff a little too much?

    This is not difficult; what I have heard in my life, a life that has had a lot of intersections with African American life in America, is experiences of black people. That’s it. Nothing more, nothing less.

    I’ve said, REPEATEDLY... like, over and over... that it is better now than it has ever been. So let’s not act like I’m screaming that the end is nigh. I’ve said, repeatedly, that despite appearances we are in better shape than ever. Repeatedly.

    Have I agreed with people that maybe it’s not as bad as I think?

    No. Why? Because I‘ve got decades worth of “stuff” that has established my view on the topic, and nobody has posted anything remotely coming close to being enough to undermine my experiences and knowledge. Jesus Christ man... if a trained mathematician was sitting here presenting a complicated problem, and a bunch of people who didn’t know much about math said that MAYBE the mathematicians complicated answer to the complicated problem is right, but would they consider that maybe the people who don’t know about math... they might be right instead, that the answer might be just this one simple one... you know, the media is making it a big deal out of things..? Should the mathematician be like “Ah yes, well, maybe your overly simplistic, non-reflective answer IS right! Sure!”?

    No. The mathematician should continue to believe in their answer until someone provides some insight or experience that shows that it may be wrong.

    Glad we agree there is a problem. Hey, if it makes you feel any better, I hope you are right, that it’s not really that big a deal!
     
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  12. IUfanBorden

    IUfanBorden Well-Known Member
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    What do you think people of their stature are going to say? You think they are going to denounce this? I have zero doubt that all of the above experienced racism issues...Especially folks such as Colin Powell...Or Gayle King....I mean do you really think Will Smith is gonna say---"Man, black people have lost their damn minds."
    C'mon,man...You are seemingly highly educated. Surely you can see that you are only "reporting" from one side of the fence.

    And look, here's a problem that NEVER gets discussed----Comments from highly visible African Americans, such as Gayle King.

    "I worry about my son's safety...then saying---"welcome to the world of being black".

    That right there is teaching racism. Those are reckless statements that simply are swept away. It shows that black children are mostly getting introduced to racism, first, by.....THEIR PARENTS. Do you not see that as being an issue....As being part of the problem? Raisng your children to basically fear the police? You are painting a picture of evil, in a very early stage of your children's lives. They(kids) , from DAY ONE, are being taught that the police are "out to get them". You do not think that could be PART of the problem?

    But hey, I know your answer----Black kids need to be prepared. Dude, that is not preparing. That is teaching racism.
     
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  13. TheDude1

    TheDude1 Well-Known Member
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    Jeez, when you see far shots of crowds, you really get a feel for how many people are involved in some of this stuff. Much better perspective than some of the close up shots.

    Oh, and the tweet make me guffaw. That was our first lie of the Presidency... about having the biggest crowds ever. That was the first time the press secretary made a statement.

     
  14. IUfanBorden

    IUfanBorden Well-Known Member
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    It kills me with you....I mean, you chastise those for not seeing both sides----yet, well, you don't. What do I expect black people to tell you? Well, exactly what they told you. And I would bet if you talked to 95% of white people, they would tell you its not as bad.

    The truth, IMO then, is somewhere in the middle. Problem is, with you, there is no middle. Its all....Or it is nothing.

    I have officiated CBB for almost 13 years....HS basketball for damn near 20...baseball as well. I've worked conference tourneys...NAIA tournament....NCAA Div 2 Regionals...Multiple State tournaments. I;ve been instructed by some of the best basketball/baseball officials on the planet. Been to the elite of the elite camps.

    And you know what?

    I still learn something every single year.

    Get my drift here, friend?
     
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  15. schoonerwest

    schoonerwest Well-Known Member
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    Maybe next year you refs will finally learn the difference between a block and a charge.
     
  16. TheDude1

    TheDude1 Well-Known Member
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    Jesus Borden... listen to yourself: you are learning from people who know a shitload about basketball and have experience with basketball.

    You aren’t learning from randoms who don’t have any experience with it.

    This is NOT that hard.

    Really... so far your take is that whatever I hear from black people I know about their experiences... thats a bit suspect, because, I don’t know, they tell me what they want me to hear or something... and successful black people with some ability to get a message out, don’t listen to them either... but I should probably accept that the truth about the black experience is really as close to what the white people who don’t experience it say as it is as the black people who experience say it is, because in the end, a lot of the racism, it’s coming from black people.

    Dude, it’s too late for this, I’ll catch you in the AM. How about this; I will be sure to give every point you make about this a fair looking at and analysis.
     
    17296 TheDude1, Jun 6, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2020
  17. TheDude1

    TheDude1 Well-Known Member
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    Btw, wtf is this “defund the cops” nonsense? I gotta read more about this in the AM, because it sounds dumb.
     
  18. GhostOf301

    GhostOf301 Well-Known Member
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    Thedude is so full of shit. He does a lot of researching into many topics. I give him credit for the time that he puts into it. He is a classic example of how the left uses their education as a form of intellectual superiority. He researches certain topics only to find evidence that fits his own narrative. He never sees things from the other side with any intent to consider other people's views as being relevant or sincere it is nothing more than a narcissistic troll job. He will never give an inch on being wrong because he doesn't think that he could ever be wrong on anything. The biggest irony here is that he has the most in common with Trump than anyone here. Dude is a fraud and a coward.
     
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  19. GhostOf301

    GhostOf301 Well-Known Member
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    Thankfully it appears that we are trending towards a more peaceful time. We have been through a lot in the past few months. Peace is the most important thing right now. But sadly, I feel like we are going to see another round of shutdowns. The covid death toll from the protests/riots will likely double the covid deaths prior to this.
     
  20. SNU0821

    SNU0821 Well-Known Member
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    Yuuuuuuuuuup. 100%
     
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  21. TheDude1

    TheDude1 Well-Known Member
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    Oh, before sleep, I thought I’d share this... someone asked me what I’d do, in terms of concrete ways to help solve problems within the African American community. Bc tangible goals matter, here’s what I said:


    So I was thinking back to what you were asking... and listen, I dont' have any answers, I'm a bunch of years away from current research, but I suppose there are a few things I would think could help.

    First is reimaging our predominantly African American schools so that they operate more on a "whole family" approach. You have to start YOUNG, and work with a family closely beyond just 8-3. There is this entire style of school that has evolved particularly in some inner city areas where the schools offer an education, but they do even more. They offer before-school services, including food. They offer extended school days, including instruction of specific skills and arts and the like. They work closely with families and parents, and even provide things like food and clothing and job counseling and mental health help. They are definitely not possible everywhere... they are demanding of the staff, and demanding financially, but these sorts of schools can go a LONG way towards lifting up a community, and enabling the adults in the community to make for a BETTER community, and they ultimately pay back their initial investment tenfold. It takes a village.

    Second, I think we need to aggressively recruit African Americans into the sciences and math. You need to tackle #1 above first to really make it work, but we need to start getting more black Americans into fields that will offer paths to higher paying, white collar, meaningful jobs.

    Third, I think community service needs to be extended in African American communities. Things like community centers and programs are huge.... things to give skills to adults, and to keep kids busy. You need STRONG mentor programs connecting successful African American adults with kids, particularly kids who may be at risk (esp single parent households).

    Fourth, I do think there is work that needs to be done, in terms of policing our African American communities. The police have such a difficult job. The thing is... sometimes I think we see their job as stopping criminals, but I think that we have to approach it differently. Police in African American communities in particular need to be trained early and often to understand that their job is caring for their community. It is a positive role, not a negative. You need frequent and positive interaction between police and the regular, law-abiding people they are working with. You need regular communication between community leadership and police leadership, including down to the lower levels of said police leadership, putting a good weight on the shoulders of the day-to-day leadership in the patrol cars. I think you do need some sort of community oversight over their local police; the people want their police to keep them safe, and we should trust them to have that best interest in mind.

    Oh, and fifth, I do think we need serious continued financial investment in African American communities. Investment in schools, investment in terms of help African Americans start small businesses, investment in lower-level simple health care, investment in policing.

    I mean, that's a start? Shit man, there is SO much that needs to be done.

    The beauty of it is that I genuinely think we are in as good a place as we've ever been, current shit show notwithstanding. I think the majority of people want the right thing to happen, and thankfully young people today REALLY get it, in a way that young people never have before. They are growing up in a much different world than even us guys in our 40s, and the world will benefit for it.
     
  22. IUfanBorden

    IUfanBorden Well-Known Member
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    Doubtful....:eek:

    TBH,man---such a tough call. I was watching video of my last HS game the other night. I called a charge in that game, that at the time,I was 100% confident. After watching the video,that's around 50%. Its just a bang/bang call.
     
  23. SNU0821

    SNU0821 Well-Known Member
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    This is literally where we are. If you don’t agree with the dumbshit demands of the mob, they turn on you.
     
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  24. IUfanBorden

    IUfanBorden Well-Known Member
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    Naah,you didn't get my point at all. Its not just the training, the clnics----but the games. Shit I've worked a middle school game, saw something different, an applied it.
    My point was---I always keep my mind open to----CHANGE. To learning. To getting better. I learn new hydration techniques...New positioning..Hear how other officals treat situations, and apply it. The minute you become complacent with where you are....you miss things.

    I never said what you heard is suspect. I said realize the source(S). Its the same with officiating----realizing the source. You know how many times a coach has told me---"My kid said he never touched him"? On the flip side, the other kid is adamant he was hit.

    I'' ask this----Of the racism stories you have heard---How many do you feel was actual racism, opposed to someone thinking it was racism? Example----A buddy of mine who calls HS games with me, got a ticket last year, on the way to a game....We were joking, and I said---"Well, ya know brother, if you wasn't black.....He;s like---"Naaah, pretty sure it was b/c I was going 90". Not, yeah they pulled me over b/c I was driving a 2019 Gold Chevy Cruze...Question being, Dude....How many cases/stories of racism do you think are assumed?

    Ya know, I resepct your expertise. I do. BUT....it doesn't automatically make you right. I mean, that is the same with me. I doubt there is ONE person on here who knows the rules, the application of them, the correct positioning, what a PCA is, etc, etc...BUT, that doesn't mean there cannot be a call, or a play that they are right, and I am wrong.

    Also, you never answered my question about racism being "taught" at home. Do you think that exist? Do you think that can be just as much of a problem?

    Also, what about racism/profiling vs whites? Is that non-existent? Or is it OK b/cmost of the time, its used as a punchline? I mean I went to Memphis about 2 years ago to call a 4 game series..At the hotel i ask--"where is a good place to eat"? Lady says, honey, you might just wanna order in. I didn't listen...About 10pm, decided I wanted some McDonalds...I take a wrong turn, end up in, well, not a good place...Next thing I know---red and blues---I'm getting stopped. First thing cop says--"What are you doing in this area"? Nothing to why he stopped me. I was like, "I'm from out of town, got lost looking for a McDonalds". He's like, are you sure....? Ummm, yeah. Can you get out of the car? Ummmm, why? Well look,this is a known drug area..... Me: Ok? And? Well, its just odd to see someone like you........

    Whoa....Someone like me? What is someone like me?

    You see, b/c I was white, driving a nice car, and in a known drug area, it was assumed I was there buying drugs. Or was that me assuming what they meant by, "someone like me"? Let'me guess----That is different, right? Or irrelevant, because well since that rarely happens, we just chalk it up to, " an officer doing his job by stopping a car, that was suspicious/odd, for that area, and that time of night"? Or was it b/c, well, normally when there is a white dude, in a nice car, in that area, 95% of the time, dude IS buying some dope? so in that case, its just a cop, being a good cop, using his good cop instincts...??

    Now, switch things...Black guy, nice car, nice neighborhood, late at night, driving around, slowly, seemingly with no purpose...And he gets stopped. No way it can be b/c the car was driving in a suspicious manner....It HAS to be b/c he was black. Not b/c the cop was a good cop, using good cop instincts...Can't be. It doesn't fit.

    Its a one-way street, Dude. And you know this. Can you imagine me filing a complaint, saying I was profiled for being, GULP----White? JFC....8 people would have died at the police station from laughing...
     
  25. MrBaracus

    MrBaracus Well-Known Member
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    I didn’t say that the media fabricates racism. I said that it exaggerates the severity and exacerbates the problem. Same as David Harris’s message. Guess he’s secretly an inexperienced white person too?

    You haven’t elaborated on any of these countless atrocities and brutalities that you’ve heard about. And of those, how many were undoubtedly due to race? If it’s the horror show that you’re implying, I don’t think you’d be willing to declare that we’ve made huge progress.

    Again, no one is arguing that racism is dead. Like I said, prejudice will always remain to an extent. But, let’s say that these stories were coming instead from a group of inner city white people, who represent 12% of their region’s population, in an area policed mostly by black people. Would you expect to hear a few suggestions or complaints about racial profiling by cops?
     
    17305 MrBaracus, Jun 7, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2020
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  26. ticket2ride04

    ticket2ride04 Well-Known Member
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  27. toonces11

    toonces11 Well-Known Member
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  28. ticket2ride04

    ticket2ride04 Well-Known Member
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    How can non-Blacks talk about what is the Black experience?
     
  29. TheDude1

    TheDude1 Well-Known Member
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    Talk to a lot of black people, listen to a lot of black people, read the accounts of a lot of black people, learn the history of African Americans in this country... then you get a feel for it, on a general level.
     
  30. TheDude1

    TheDude1 Well-Known Member
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    Bravo, sir;)
     
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  31. ticket2ride04

    ticket2ride04 Well-Known Member
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    You misunderstand my point. In another post, Borden points out its great that you talk to Black people, but their POV might be one-sided. He encourages you to seek out the other side. That’s non-sensical when seeking to understand the Black experience. It’s why you made the comment about seeking basketball knowledge from people in basketball.
     
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  32. TheDude1

    TheDude1 Well-Known Member
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    I don’t think it exaggerates and exacerbates the problem in any way that makes me think the problems aren’t as serious as they are.

    How earth do I have to expand upon them? Don’t you know them? Don’t people read? Black people having cops called on them when they go to the bank to take out money, Black people having security called on the when they go into nice stores, black people yanked out of their cars and abused by the police for no reason... again, ask nearly any black person you know about it.

    And what kind of lack of logic makes you think that if things are as bad as black people say they are that I couldn’t say things are better? You do realize that, within the lifetime of some people out there protesting, we had cops beating peaceful protestors and siccing dogs on them, and governors saying they’d allow black kids in white schools over their dead bodies and using the military to prevent them from getting into school, and government officials literally destroying their votes, right?

    Now we have police departments going through sensitivity training, and we have popular social figures out there describing the issues black people face, and we have cops kneeling in solidarity with protestors, and a black president who empathized with black Americans and discussed the issue... and that’s not even getting into the fact that stats show that young people really do not get caught up in race that much.

    As I have said over and over and over in this thread, things are better now than ever.

    That does not mean that black people aren’t dealing with an awful lot of racism.

    And yes, prejudice will always exist. It is one of the aspects of being human. Your hypothetical is pointless... just because someone says something exists doesn’t mean it DOES; it has to be supported by fact and history.

    Man, this thread needs more black people posting in it. Seriously. Some of you just need to listen, and you aren’t listening to me.
     
    17312 TheDude1, Jun 7, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2020
  33. TheDude1

    TheDude1 Well-Known Member
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    Oh no, I got it. I was just pointing out how I came about the ability to talk about it.

    Now, I am limited in that I haven’t experienced it. But we don’t seem to have any black posters here who are going to chime in and talk about what they’ve gone through, being black in America, so I’m doing the best I can.
     
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  34. GhostOf301

    GhostOf301 Well-Known Member
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    I am not sure what the post you quoted has to do with the question you asked. But I suppose you are right. These conversations typically happen between white people who are somewhere between woke experts on black experiences and deniers of the actual struggles within the black community.

    I am not sure that I have directly spoke of what the black experience is. I have commented on how not all black people have the same black experience, not all black communities have the same struggles and how not every black person is going to answer some of these proposed questions the same. As with every race or creed, your experience is going to be different according to where you live. I understand that black people are subjected to the same types of prejudices nation wide (worldwide if we're being honest) but the societal effects are going to be different based on the exposure being more or less according to where they live.
     
  35. TheDude1

    TheDude1 Well-Known Member
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    Borden, Im always reading about this shit, and discussing it, and developing my POV. But it’s with people and in places that can do that.

    These random forum back and forths, they aren’t usually that, because there aren’t really that many people here with the expertise and experience and knowledge to do that.

    When you learn about positioning or hydration or new techniques in reffing, you are learning from people who know this stuff. You are learning from experts.

    I haven’t seen anyone on this forum who is meaningfully able to do that in an extended discussion of race relations in America. About the only thing I could get here is personal experiences, which you can get anywhere, but in all of these discussions of race we’ve had zero input from black people, so the use of hearing white guys personal experiences and general theories about race in America (and about how really it is the media’s fault, or black peoples fault) is a bit limited.

    And these discussions aren’t about single play that someone might call better. They are discussions on an entire rule book, and often the people having them, they haven’t even read it.

    Can racism be taught? Obviously. It IS taught... we aren’t really born racist. But your absolutely ridiculous example, that black mothers teaching their sons that they have to be careful is continuing racism (against the race “cop?”) is a cause of racism is ludicrous.

    And your example, of getting McDonalds in a poor black part of town and getting pulled over... I don’t even know where to go with that. Borden, people would laugh at you for saying you are being racially profiled because it would be a joke. That’s it. You think black people are complaining because of good police work now?
     
    17315 TheDude1, Jun 7, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2020
  36. TheDude1

    TheDude1 Well-Known Member
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    Btw, are my fans like Letsgo and SNU totally trashing me as some unlistening arrogant horrible person in this thread, and saying that I’m saying things that I’m not?
     
  37. JimboBBN

    JimboBBN Well-Known Member
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    I read about the defunding thing in Minneapolis. I tried to convince myself it wasn’t a serious thing, but then again, nothing would surprise me as far as stupidity anymore.
     
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  38. GhostOf301

    GhostOf301 Well-Known Member
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    Quit being a pussy.
     
  39. JimboBBN

    JimboBBN Well-Known Member
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    They said you only present evidence that’s fits your narrative on some topics. Which isn’t entirely inaccurate.
     
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  40. UL_1986

    UL_1986 Well-Known Member
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    Every single poster presents evidence that is biased and agenda driven. Every single one.
     
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