The Sideways Locomotive Thread; Your Level of Patriotism, Hot Takes and Overall General Nonsense

Discussion in 'College Basketball Board' started by Random UK Fan, Jul 3, 2019.

  1. bkingUK

    bkingUK Well-Known Member
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    Know a lot of people who have attended protests, even my wife, but huge difference between protesting and looting.
     
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  2. GhostOf301

    GhostOf301 Well-Known Member
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    Talking to the wall here.

    It was fvcked up to shove him like that due to his age. The shove he recieved would have been nothing more than to get him out of the way for most people. The cop didn't use good judgment and you can see that he immediately regretted pushing him that hard. On the flip side, that man is old enough to have common sense. He got in the face of officers who were following orders and attempted to impede their progression. We can see that it was fvcked up for him to be shoved to the ground and still see that he was not an innocent victim.

    Funny how when I posted the video of Floyd being murdered by the cop. Your response was "oh man, cops just have such a hard job...." bla bla bla which is what led your pussy ass to put me on ignore. But now, you want to point out every flaw you can find with cops. So of course, I was right about you. You were just trying to pretend to be a moderate when your response to the Floyd murder was " cops have such a hard job".
     
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  3. UL_1986

    UL_1986 Well-Known Member
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    Cops should be ashamed of themselves for bullying the elderly. Disgusting but not surprised.
     
  4. GhostOf301

    GhostOf301 Well-Known Member
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    Your statement is completely logical when you say it broadly and without context. It could easily be argued that the old man was bullying the cops.
     
  5. UL_1986

    UL_1986 Well-Known Member
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    Truly sickening.
     
  6. TheDude1

    TheDude1 Well-Known Member
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    I know we all fight a lot, but I thought I'd share an email I just got from a former student, a minority student, because it made me smile, and it reminded me how important us adults are to the kids around us.

    (Obviously I changed the names.)


    Dear Mr. B,

    I hope that you and your family are doing well during this time. I'm not sure if you remember me, but I was in your sixth-grade class in 2012. Last year I was a freshman at the University of A PLACE, and now I am a current student at ANOTHER University. Recently, there has been "tension" online due to a statement released by my high school (A LOCAL CHRISTIAN HIGH SCHOOL) regarding the death of George Floyd. There are currently over a thousand comments on Instagram from past and current black students as well as POC students describing the many times that our school's administration, certain teachers, and students had mistreated them due to the color of their skin. It is heartbreaking to think that a place of education could condone anything like this, and while my school's faults were later addressed by the administration, it was only done so due to the many brave voices that spoke up during this time.

    I am emailing you because I wanted to thank you for opening up the uncomfortable conversations and reminding us to dig deeper and to fight for what is right. These conversations may seem too heavy or difficult to understand to kids who barely remember to bring back their library books, yet you continued to have them. It is teachers like you who help students realize that their voices, although small, can be used to make a change. I will never forget how well you taught our class our country's history, never failing to highlight the struggles and not-so-pretty times we have had in the past. You encouraged all of us to never settle and to question anything that we saw unfit. Growing up in OUR NICE LITTLE TOWN, it is quite obvious how easy it is to shelter ourselves from what is going on around the world, and you were able to ease 11 and 12-year-olds to see beyond our small bubble. I'm sure that these past few months have been hard teaching your students over Zoom and Google Classroom (my brother is currently in third grade, and I can attest that he actually WANTS to go back to school :) ). I am confident that after I graduated from OUR SCHOOL, you continued to provide an equally great experience to those who had the honor of having you as their teacher.

    Thank you again, and I hope to hear from you soon,
    A FORMER STUDENT
     
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  7. UL_1986

    UL_1986 Well-Known Member
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    Awesome man.
     
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  8. TheDude1

    TheDude1 Well-Known Member
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    Made me happy, for sure:)

    And I always laugh when they say “I don’t know if you remember me.” I like wtf... of course I remember you. you don’t just forget kids.
     
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  9. hailtoyourvictor

    hailtoyourvictor Well-Known Member
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  10. JimboBBN

    JimboBBN Well-Known Member
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  11. hailtoyourvictor

    hailtoyourvictor Well-Known Member
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    Say their names
     
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  12. GhostOf301

    GhostOf301 Well-Known Member
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  13. UL_1986

    UL_1986 Well-Known Member
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    Mocking the protests of lives lost to make an arbitrary point that doesn’t even make sense. Terrible but also not surprised.
     
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  14. GhostOf301

    GhostOf301 Well-Known Member
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    Discounting lives lost during violent riots in order to perpetuate a false narrative doesn't even make sense. Terrible but also not surprised.
     
  15. Crappy Davenpot

    Crappy Davenpot Well-Known Member
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    Been lifting for 42-43 years and the longest break I’ve ever taken is about 2 weeks. Don’t really have a home set-up. Been doing push-ups, sit-ups, dips, light curls, flipping a tire. Sick of push-ups. When I started I weighed 135. When I peaked around 40ish, was 228. Hells yeahs I’m bout to go postal. Old man now but was still 213 when this sheet started.
    Anybody got a barbell???:mad:
     
  16. UL_1986

    UL_1986 Well-Known Member
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    What false narrative?
     
  17. GhostOf301

    GhostOf301 Well-Known Member
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    That black people are being targeted by police. That black people fear being hunted in America.
     
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  18. 829305

    829305 Well-Known Member
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    Likewise. On way to dinner. Then drinks. Halle-fvckin-lujah.
     
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  19. UL_1986

    UL_1986 Well-Known Member
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    That’s not false though.
     
  20. GhostOf301

    GhostOf301 Well-Known Member
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    It is.
     
  21. UL_1986

    UL_1986 Well-Known Member
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    Why would so many African Americans across the world agree with the notion if it were indeed false? It’s not false.
     
  22. GhostOf301

    GhostOf301 Well-Known Member
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    African Americans across the world? o_O
     
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  23. UL_1986

    UL_1986 Well-Known Member
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    The United States of America, but I’m sure there is obviously worldwide support. You catch my drift.
     
  24. I am stupid

    I am stupid Well-Known Member
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  25. GhostOf301

    GhostOf301 Well-Known Member
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    It is a false narrative when you ignore statistics and facts and use isolated incidents to represent the overall sentiment.
     
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  26. GhostOf301

    GhostOf301 Well-Known Member
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    Also. There are plenty of black Americans who don't agree with the liberal ideology. But #theyain'tblack
     
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  27. hailtoyourvictor

    hailtoyourvictor Well-Known Member
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    Lmao
     
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  28. GhostOf301

    GhostOf301 Well-Known Member
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    Just more proof that black people are pawns to the Left.
     
  29. GhostOf301

    GhostOf301 Well-Known Member
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    #myturn

     
  30. SNU0821

    SNU0821 Well-Known Member
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    It’s 100% false. Stats prove it out.
     
  31. hailtoyourvictor

    hailtoyourvictor Well-Known Member
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    Did info ever come out on this
     
  32. UL_1986

    UL_1986 Well-Known Member
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    Oh boy lol. Touched a nerve.
     
  33. bkingUK

    bkingUK Well-Known Member
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  34. IUfanBorden

    IUfanBorden Well-Known Member
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    I mean, what do you expect them to say? It's like saying all white people across the USA, agree it doesn't exist...

    And FTR, I know quite a few African-Americans tht DO NOT believe this. Then again, I kow plenty of white folk who DO believe it.

    Myself? I dunno. I live in So. Indiana..So I cannot speak for how the police are in the 49 other states. But I guess you can?

    Heres "A" take----When a black man/woman IS mistreated, it gets NATIONAL coverage...Its all over the news. It can portray one incident, to look like many. When statistically, its not. The news shows us a black man getting "roughed up", etc, etc...in some of the worst cities, neighborhoods in the country...But they leave that narrative out. I see here at home...West end of Louisville. Beyond 22nd street, there's a god damn shooting every ****ing day.

    Not saying there isn't an issue....There certainly is. I just don't think its as wide spread, and as rampant, as some would lead us to believe.
     
  35. TheDude1

    TheDude1 Well-Known Member
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    Borden, I am sorry, but your take is wrong.

    The entire point of this thing is that for YEARS AND YEARS black people were mistreated and absolutely nobody listened, nobody noticed, nobody did anything about it. It's been a painful undercurrent of the African American experience for decades and decades. It has nothing to do with the news, or social media, except that over the last five or so years there have finally been cameras to capture it, and social media to spread it. This has been going on for a hundred years.

    Anyone who is trying to act like there isn't a long-standing, deep, and painful history between African Americans and our legal system is, at best, ignorant, but at this point if you haven't gotten it from listening then it is not just ignorance, it is WILLFUL ignorance.

    Honestly, I don't even know what to say at this point, with what some of you guys are saying. It's just... I don't know what to say. It's like having people say the sky on another planet they've never been to is red, and then everyone from that planet says no, the sky here is blue... but these people who have never been there insist no no, they are pretty sure it is red.

    Borden, I assume that any reading or anything I provide will be ignored or written off as just some black person with an agenda, right? Like, if I post a half dozen fantastic essays and articles about the history of the relationship between African Americans and the American law enforcement system... about the long, ugly history of policing in the South during segregation, about sentencing and race, about the specific relationship between young black males and law enforcement, any number of thousands and thousands of personal anecdotes... there is nothing that would change your "A take"?

    Is there any way I could convince you to say "Okay, maybe it is a bigger problem than I understand it to be."?

    I'm just... at a loss.
     
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  36. TheDude1

    TheDude1 Well-Known Member
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    Random UK Fan likes this.
  37. IUfanBorden

    IUfanBorden Well-Known Member
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    I mean, that's your opinion. I respect it. I think its a problem. A big problem. I just don't think its some wide-spread, nation wide conspiracy, of hate filled cops, hunting down black people.
    Also, is this discussion always going to revert bak to the, "Its been going on for 200 years"? There is ZERO doubt that life for an African-American during the 50's, 60's and 70's, was pretty bad. None. But see, here is the thing...

    People like you don't wanna recognize progress. From 1950, to now, the progress has been , well, exponentially better. Are there still issues? Yes. And those issues are serious, and deserve its due attention. But its thoughts like these---"Well it's been going on for 100 years", that really, I mean to be truthful, that slows even more progress. I don't need a history lesson. I am quite aware of the unfortunate way African-Americans were treated for 100's of years, i.e. slavery, up through, and even past civil right movements. I understand that. I do not need it explained to me.

    You ask,"Is there anyway I could convince you to say, 'Okay, maybe it is a bigger problem than I understand it to be"? Well, I mean, I could ask , "Is there anyway I could convince you to say---'Okay, maybe its not AS BAD, of a problem, than I think it is"?

    I mean, saying its not as bad, isn't surrendering...Its not admitting there isn't a problem. Kinda of like when I was told about my financial issue---"Well, it could always be worse." Yes, it could. But that doesn't change the fact that my issue is still pretty ****in' bad.

    I like you bro. I do. I just think you are among those who try really hard to make things seem much wrse, than what they are....Ya know, like comparing a thunderstorm to a hurricane...Both are bad...But both are very different..

    I 100% agree there are many issues with police and African-Americans. Serious issues. But,I mean, to answer your question, NO, there isn't anything you can say.
     
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  38. TheDude1

    TheDude1 Well-Known Member
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    Wait, what? A nation wide conspiracy of cops hunting down black people? Like... cops are talking to cops in other towns and planning to murder black people? I believe most people say it is an issue of underlying racism and the like in policing, and that there are some particularly bad apples. I think you are making this into something nobody except some of the most militant radicals believe (or which makes for an attention-getting headline/ sound bite on social media).

    Wait, what!? I've literally said a HALF DOZEN TIMES in the last few pages that things are better now than they've ever been. Like, literally that. I have not read a single black author or thinker, or listened to a single social commentary, that says things are WORSE now than they were in the 80s, or in the 60s, or anything.

    And no, knowing the history of it isn't slowing things down.

    I think you need the lesson on the IMPACT of all of it, even today.

    I'm reposting what I wrote a few pages ago, about the issues in African American society, and where it all comes from, because that history is essential to "getting" it. It is not something that just popped up; it's been decades in the making. Understanding that is essential to actually developing ways to reduce it.

    Feel free to skip past the italics, if you want, but you've posted enough here to make me think you ARE interested in this stuff.

    Some people are reluctant to acknowledge it, but there are some massive, fundamental issues in the African American community as a whole (and yes, obviously discussing something as huge as "the African American community" minimizes individual differences). The issue of the single parent household is one of the primary ones; it leads to more single parent households, to poverty, to more crime, to more domestic abuse... to more everything.

    The issue is how these big issues, which seem somewhat independent of race, are actually intricately tied to race and history.

    So, most of us see ourselves as the product of our parents, and sometimes our grandparents. We rarely see how far back our familial traits and patterns go.

    We are raised by our parents. We see their influence, both positive and negative, in everything we do. Sometimes we actively try to correct what we saw as shortcomings in them.

    But really, it goes much, much further back.

    Our parents were as influenced by their parents as we are by they.

    And THEIR parents were as influenced by THEIR parents, and THEIR parents by THEIR parents, back and back and back.

    In truth, all of us were not just raised by our parents... we were actually raised by generations worth of people, and by their experiences and biases and opportunities and expectations and parenting styles and all the rest of it.

    And it isn't just personality and DNA and parenting style... it is generations worth of economic decisions, generations worth of education and the approach to it, generations worth of housing decisions... its everything.

    Something that is often brushed off as "Well, it was so long ago!" or "Well, just take control of your life" is how powerful and genuine the past influences black American families. African Americans went through generations in which the nuclear family simply did not exist. It just didn't. Entire generations of people grew up without parents, without family, and often specifically without father figures, who were more often sold independently from children than women were. These intense and formative set of experiences were passed down, not genetically but culturally, for years and years.

    When this cycle was broken in the late 1800s, you already had literally hundreds of years of this sort of cultural identity ingrained in so, so much of the African American population. While it certainly improved (how could it not?) it did not disappear, and things like the stressors of how African Americans were "welcomed" by the American economy (blacks not able to get high paying jobs, black not allowed to own businesses, blacks not able to afford decent housing, ) or by American education (blacks not allowed to go to good schools, blacks not allowed to go to colleges) or treated by the American legal system (blacks not allowed to be cops, blacks not offered the same legal protections as white, blacks not allowed to vote) or treated by the American military (blacks not allowed to serve alongside white troops, blacks discharged in ways to ensure they did not get aid or pensions) did not help.

    And it is important to remember how long life is, and how much people who are alive today have had passed down to them, and have seen THEMSELVES, and experienced, and then passed down. African Americans alive today faced a time when policemen were members of the KKK and helped lynch their fathers... African Americans alive today went to poor schools and had to fight to be allowed to go to the better, white schools... African Americans alive today were denied treatment at "white" hospitals and had to make do with poorer, "black" hospitals... African Americans alive today were denied loans to move to better homes, jobs that would provide better for their families, legal protections as they moved through the legal system, the ability to serve in their nation's armed forces beside white soldiers... and all of this not really because they were poor or uneducated, but also solely because of the color of their skin.

    All of these experiences, these generations of cultural memory and patterns, are passed down from grandfather to father, from father to son. While individuals can strive to break patterns, to form new ones, to look beyond what is passed down, when you look at a culture as a whole you can see how much damage has been done to African American culture because of race.

    There's a reason why African Americans face many issues that black people, as a world population, do not. It sucks, it is generations old, and it is likely impossible to eliminate.

    But we sure as heck can work to minimize it as best we can, generation by generation.



    And Borden, the fact that things are so much better today... we are not going to feel the full benefit of that for several generations. That's how long it takes many of these systems to "pay off" in meaningful, familial-impacting ways.

    Could you show me that it isn't as bad as I think?

    Sure. Of course.

    CAN you?

    No, YOU can't. Because that would literally be you trying to show me enough information and anecdotes and stats to make me ignore 25 years of this stuff. I've always been a history guy, and a politics guy, and yes, I've always been fascinated by the social nature of humans, including race. It's not only something I'm naturally interested in, it is something I've invested countless hours reading about, learning about, LISTENING about...

    So COULD you convince me it is less of a problem than I believe?

    Sure. But it would take a LOT, because I know a lot.


    Borden, you know that I have always, 100 percent defended your opinion on reffing on this forum, that I've always called out the idiots who think they know about reffing and think they get it like you get it, but you and I both know they have no f'ing clue... you know because you are an actual ref who has studied it and read about it and has lived it for decades, and me, because I know there is a lot of shit I don't know, and as much as I like watching sports and consider myself a casual sports expert, I don't really know shit about reffing.

    I'm telling you... this is practically my reffing.




    I am glad you agree there is a problem. That's important. Let's keep discussing the shape of it, and importantly how to continue to make it better. I have a ton of black friends, and the pain they are all feeling... every one of them... it is palpable and heartbreaking, and it didn't just appear overnight... it's generations in the making:(
     
    17238 TheDude1, Jun 5, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2020
  39. hailtoyourvictor

    hailtoyourvictor Well-Known Member
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    Bro
     
  40. IUfanBorden

    IUfanBorden Well-Known Member
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    Just a thing, or two...

    1. You act like my statement of, "cops hunting down African-Americans, although somewhat hyperbolic, is something I "just thought of", or made up....is kinda of, well, startling. If you do not think there are MANY who feel that police are out to get African-Americans, then you are much more closed-minded than I thought..

    2. There is absolutely no doubt you are much more educated than I on the subject. And obviously you are more educated to speak on some of the matters. BUT....just like with officiating, just b/c I know more, understand it more, actually work the games, doesn't mean I am always right. In other words,what we learn, isn't always absolute.

    3. There is undoubtedly a problem. I just do not agree that its on the level you feel it is. Now, that doesn't mean it isn't bad. It is.

    Also, I am curious....Why do we never hear the stories of an unarmed white man being shot...Or beaten....Or mistreated? As white people, are we immune.......Does it not matter b/c we are white? Do you feel its irrelevant? Do you feel its owed to us?

    Serious...Why is it we never hear these stats? Now, look, I am not trying to downplay the issues African-Americans face with police. But, I mean, it just seems as if white people cannot, or are not, allowed to "have this happen".
     
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