The Sideways Locomotive Thread; Your Level of Patriotism, Hot Takes and Overall General Nonsense

Discussion in 'College Basketball Board' started by Random UK Fan, Jul 3, 2019.

  1. SNU0821

    SNU0821 Well-Known Member
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    Framers hit the nail on the head with the Electoral College. Just because it's led to Democrats losing doesn't mean it doesn't work or isn't what's best for our country. This comes off as nothing more than sour grapes. Always has. Always will.
     
  2. TheDude1

    TheDude1 Well-Known Member
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    I disagree that the current system (I wasn't talking about the Electoral College and presidential politics, but the Senate) is ideal, and I think my logic is pretty solid.

    When it comes to voting and representation on a national stage, I don't think what state someone lives in matters as much as the number of actual American citizens involved.

    In the current system, everyone could move out of North Dakota except one person, and everyone else could move to Texas, and North Dakota (with its population of one) would still have two Senators and Texas (with its population of 300+ million) would have only two Senators.

    That's silly.

    When it comes to state governments, handle it by state. But the representation in our national government shouldn't be based on what rivers and mountain ranges we decided separate the states a hundred years ago. It should be based on Americans who are being represented.

    And it has nothing to do with Democrat or Republican. Both have controlled the Senate and the House at different times. It's a much bigger issue than that.
     
  3. SNU0821

    SNU0821 Well-Known Member
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    The electoral college is perfect because it allows people in less populated states to have some input into our government. If we went to a popular vote, NY, TX, CA and maybe FL would be the only states that matter. The system is, without question, perfect the way it is right now. It isn't going to change and discussing this stuff, again, is just sour grapes.

    And your hypothetical is silly because what you outlined will NEVER happen.
     
  4. TheDude1

    TheDude1 Well-Known Member
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    Again you are trying to make it personal by accusing me of sour grapes. It's not. Again, both Democrats and Republicans have controlled the Senate. I'm just a logical thinker. It doesn't make sense to me, when we are determining representation on a national level, that we should mess with the simple system in a way that then gives people an "advantage" by choosing to live someplace not many other Americans live. For national representation, let each vote count and count equally. Otherwise you end up with the votes of Americans living in higher populated areas counting less than votes of Americans living in less populated areas. I get that there is the idea that letting each vote count equally creates a system where the votes of Americans feel less impactful, but I think that minimization is okay and is, in fact, natural.

    Hyperbolic hypotheticals are sometimes used to point out logical flaws in systems; they aren't used literally.

    And I was providing the maps because people who don't know a lot about the system tend to look at electoral maps and developing the misconception that there are a lot more Republican voters in America and that most of America is conservative. In fact, more Americans voted for the national Democratic candidate, and the maps adjusted for population give you a much better picture of reality.
     
  5. brooky03

    brooky03 Well-Known Member
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    Nobody: Talks about the Electoral College.

    Hail: Will you guys stop crying about the Electoral College and instead listen to me cry about you crying about the Electoral College?

    SNU: Yeah, what he said!
     
  6. JimboBBN

    JimboBBN Well-Known Member
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    If we had it set up this way, New York, California, Texas, and maybe Illinois would decide every single election. You are aware of the cultural and systematic diversity that exists from region to region, city to city, and things of that nature.

    With that said, California and New York are liberal capitals. Most of, and when I say most of I mean 95 percent, of the people in large cities outside of Texas will always vote democrat. That's just how they are run. It doesn't make sense for three cities in the entire country to choose a president.
     
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  7. SNU0821

    SNU0821 Well-Known Member
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    You call it logical thinking, I disagree. It may seem logical to you. Fine. I don't view it that way. I don't believe there are ANY flaws in the electoral college. Again, the only reason (my opinion) people like yourself and other democrats/liberals are talking about eliminating the electoral college is because it isn't to your advantage and you've lost multiple elections because of it. This (again IMO) doesn't have anything to do with making a logical system and has everything to do with helping you (democrats) win elections.

    You honestly can't tell me politicians would still go to multiple states to campaign. It would be limited to CA, NY, TX, FL and maybe IL. They would only campaign in major cities leaving a majority of Americans out of the conversation. I personally don't want to see our country turn into the dumpster fire that is California which is what would happen if we went away from the electoral college.
     
  8. schoonerwest

    schoonerwest Well-Known Member
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    The largest counties in Texas are blue.

    Dallas - Dallas
    Harris - Houston
    Travis - Austin
    Bexar - San Antonio

    But, each major city is comprised of several different counties (Metroplex alone includes like 15 of them) and nearly all of them are heavy in the red. Also, Texas is a massive state so all of those other cities/towns with 50,000-200,000 populations add up. Those are all red as well (mostly).

    One interesting thing I’ve heard is the threat of Texas turning blue because of the Hispanic population. People don’t seem to consider that 3rd generation Hispanics in Texas are overwhelmingly Republican. The longer they are here, the more likely they are to lean right. By the time they’re 3rd or 4th generation they even consider themselves white but that’s a different topic.

    Ted Cruz is hardly liked here at all but he beat Beto O’Rourke in the Senate election. Cruz barely campaigned, he doesn’t have favorable ratings in the state, he’s arguably the least liked member of Congress and he beat somebody who was pushed onto us as the new up and coming face of the Democrat party who eventually someday might be the POTUS (he also campaigned like crazy). That should tell people where Texas stands right now and how unlikely it is to become a blue state anytime soon.

    Sidetrack about Texas, y’all.

    Carry on.
     
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  9. SNU0821

    SNU0821 Well-Known Member
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    Texas is the shiz! I've lived here for a while now and absolutely love it. Just hate that so many people are moving here from California. Need to buy myself one of those tshirts that say, "Don't California my Texas" LOL!
     
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  10. TheDude1

    TheDude1 Well-Known Member
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    No no, I definitely agree that it would marginalize many states, and that's definitely an issue... and there are regional issues that people outside that region don't understand, which can cause problems. (BTW, I was not really talking about the electoral college. I haven't looked back beyond this page, so if that is what you were talking about earlier sorry, I didn't know it... I was only responding to the map, and then discussing the Senate.)

    But in the end I do think that doing anything artificial to "balance" national representation, like every state two Senators no matter the number of Americans being represented, then ends up creating IMBALANCE. I don't love that... I'd rather we go to a simple "Number of Americans = Amount of Representation" system, and then issues can dealt with by, for example, the representatives of lower population areas actively working with representatives of higher population areas to find solutions to problems. That feels more organic and correct, to me at least.

    Anyway... agree to disagree.
     
  11. I am stupid

    I am stupid Well-Known Member
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    The House of representatives is set up like you are suggesting. If they were both set up the same, there would be no point in having both. It's in the best interest of everyone to have them set up like it currently is.
     
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  12. TheDude1

    TheDude1 Well-Known Member
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    Oh sure, I know that... thank you, Roger Sherman:) I'm not sure I agree that it is in the best interest of everyone to have them set up like they are, but again, we can disagree about that:)
     
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  13. toonces11

    toonces11 Well-Known Member
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    @TheDude1 or @brooky03

    Any idea what Warren means when she says she would cancel 95% of all student debt? Who is the 5%
     
  14. TheDude1

    TheDude1 Well-Known Member
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    I don't know... honestly I haven't been keeping up:(
     
  15. JimboBBN

    JimboBBN Well-Known Member
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    If I didn’t live in Kentucky, Texas is right up there in places I would wanna move to
     
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  16. SNU0821

    SNU0821 Well-Known Member
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    Dude....Sorry, missed your "Senate" piece. It's been a long day already. LOL

    Not sure how I feel on the Senate piece, specifically. I do like it's a nice balance to the House. So you're basically saying that each state should have a number of Senators proportional to their percent of the population? At least I think that's what you're saying. Not sure what I think about that.
     
  17. lurkeraspect84

    lurkeraspect84 Well-Known Member
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    Due to my luck (if it was raining whores, I'd get hit by a queer), it would be wife and I.
     
  18. I am stupid

    I am stupid Well-Known Member
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    Her plan is to cancel up to $50,000 for 95% of the borrowers. I assume the 5% is the wealthy. There are no exact details obviously, but she claims she can do it day 1 without Congress.
     
  19. toonces11

    toonces11 Well-Known Member
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    Its impossible to keep up...I haven't been able to find an answer anywhere. Kind of like people proposing medicare for all and not explaining how we as taxpayers, wont still pay outrageous prices for pharmaceuticals just bc the govt(taxpayer) is paying the bill. Its almost like they go out of the way to not ask or answer important questions.
     
  20. SNU0821

    SNU0821 Well-Known Member
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    I've never heard the above before but I will certainly make a point to use it as often as I can going forward. LOL!
     
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  21. toonces11

    toonces11 Well-Known Member
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    Yea, I could **** up a crowbar. Im guessing i fall into the go eff yourself category
     
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  22. lurkeraspect84

    lurkeraspect84 Well-Known Member
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    I just got my direct deposit, and they put an extra 0 on it. As excited as I am to see it, I have to report it don't I? It's a~ a 90K mistake. It was supposed to be 10K and some change, it's 100k and some change.

    Yeah, I have to report this. :oops:
     
  23. toonces11

    toonces11 Well-Known Member
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    This is gold
     
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  24. toonces11

    toonces11 Well-Known Member
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    Might be worth riding it out lol. Just for the love of god don't spend it
     
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  25. lurkeraspect84

    lurkeraspect84 Well-Known Member
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    I just sent my wife a screenshot, and she's like WTF!!!!!???? RollLaugh
     
  26. toonces11

    toonces11 Well-Known Member
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    50k for 95% is def not canceling 95% of all student debt. Have I been mis-hearing this whole time.

    and looked it up---you are correct
     
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  27. lurkeraspect84

    lurkeraspect84 Well-Known Member
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    Sigh. I talked to the lady in Payroll. She doesn't believe me and says "that's impossible as there's not that much in a biweekly payroll account". I'm printing said screen shot now. Fear of jail is the only thing keeping me from saying "you're right".
     
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  28. lurkeraspect84

    lurkeraspect84 Well-Known Member
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    I'm gonna have to call the police due to getting paid too much. I didn't think I'd say that today when getting ready for work. My GM said, keep it, it's their mistake. I said "no way". I'm not going to jail for someone else's mistake. How does this even happen? Not cool, and I'm way too sleep deprived to be dealing with this.
     
  29. schoonerwest

    schoonerwest Well-Known Member
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    If you spent that you’d have to pay it back.

    If you don’t pay it back you might go to jail.

    I think it happened to some guy in Michigan. He spent like 4 million at the casino over 1 year. Lol
     
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  30. I am stupid

    I am stupid Well-Known Member
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    No, her comments are just ambiguous about it and no real detailed plan is available. You heard exactly what she wanted you to hear but you didn't interpret it correctly. Which I think was a planned strategy.
     
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  31. TheDude1

    TheDude1 Well-Known Member
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    Okay, I looked it up. Crazy story... apparently SecEd has the legal ability (thanks to two laws from the 50s and 60s) to simply forgive student debts to the US gov. No questions or debate or Congressional approval; they can just do it. 43 million students owe the US government 1.5 trillion, and she could just wipe it out. That’s amazing, both that so much money is owed and that that power exists.

    Seems like the biggest hurdle is that that has the potential to generate some big tax issues, as canceled student debt is generally considered taxable income. So there would be some issues. Still, pretty crazy. Would that overall be a big boon for Americans and American businesses?

    https://www.npr.org/2020/01/14/796329598/cancelling-student-debt-is-easier-than-it-sounds
     
  32. hailtoyourvictor

    hailtoyourvictor Well-Known Member
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    Hillary won the popular vote? That’s something we’ve never heard before!
     
  33. hailtoyourvictor

    hailtoyourvictor Well-Known Member
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    The dude posted a map of the popular vote to make a point that less populated states have too much power. If you can’t make the connection then that’s on you.
     
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  34. lurkeraspect84

    lurkeraspect84 Well-Known Member
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    Payroll leaves in 20 minutes. They still haven't figured out the mistake. I might have to go home with this money. It's very uncomfortable/uneasy feeling. They don't know what account it came from, or where to put it back. My direct deposit was supposed to be 10,064.87. It's 100,064.87. One lady said, we can just not pay him for a while and let him keep it. I immediately said no. I was thinking, "are you f'n that stupid".
     
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  35. hailtoyourvictor

    hailtoyourvictor Well-Known Member
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    Getting 50k of my student loans wiped out would be sweet.


    And then paying it all back in taxes over 4-8 years would suck.
     
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  36. lurkeraspect84

    lurkeraspect84 Well-Known Member
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    It's going to be weird not paying student loans. We're down to less than 10k. I'm sure as soon as we have it paid off, they'll be a debt forgiveness. :mad:

    *note we're moving to Knoxville in couple of months, and the wife is talking about going back to school and further her education (she already has 3 degrees and a TN state license, Bert has met her, and trust me when I say, she's "outgoing". She's 37 and she'll still be in school when she's 70, it's just who she is). We're going to be paying on student loans for the foreseeable future. I work 3 jobs now, trying to pull my own weight.
     
    11116 lurkeraspect84, Jan 15, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2020
  37. I am stupid

    I am stupid Well-Known Member
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    I've thought about this. Originally I was completely against SL forgiveness, but it could have a big impact on the economy. I guess taxes would be increased, but how much is the concern. I know for most that could mean a new vehicle, actually owning/financing a house, etc...

    I am actually debating paying mine off or waiting to see what happens in November. I don't owe an extreme amount, but I'm at the point of why pay it off if there's a chance it may be forgiven.

    It's like tax loopholes. I don't like them, but I will gladly take advantage of them if I can legally.
     
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  38. TheDude1

    TheDude1 Well-Known Member
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    That's an insane story. Someone is going to come after you for it. You are doing the right thing saying "F that, take this shit back."

    It sounds like it wouldn't be general taxes that go up... the debt just goes away. The issue would be that anyone who has their debt forgiven would be responsible for taxes on the amount forgiven, unless they do something creative with the tax code to make sure that doesn't happen.
     
  39. lurkeraspect84

    lurkeraspect84 Well-Known Member
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    Again, it's very uneasy. I'm going to be protecting my wallet/card extra tonight. I do already, but extra. I don't like this at all. My co-workers are like "i wish that happened to me". I'm all against it.
     
  40. hailtoyourvictor

    hailtoyourvictor Well-Known Member
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    The US government forgives hundreds of billion dollars of student loan debt and you don’t think taxes go up to help offset that loss?


    Is that what Warren is seriously selling you?
     

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