Someone Explain This: The Size of the Universe at its Beginning.

Discussion in 'College Football Soundoff' started by Tidaltown, Jun 6, 2019.

  1. Tidaltown

    Tidaltown Well-Known Member
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    We're told there are approximately 2,000,000,000,000 galaxies in the universe.
    The Milky Way Galaxy has a minimum of 200,000,000,000 stars and some galaxies are larger.
    Therefore, in the universe there are app. 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 stars.
    Each of these stars are at least 10,000,000 times larger than the earth.
    There are app. 20,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 planets in the universe.

    The prevailing theory in physics is that 14 billion years ago all of this--all of these planets and stars--were contained within some thing smaller than one atom.

    One grain of sand contains 50,000,000,000,000,000,000 atoms.

    So 14 billion years ago, 20,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 planets and a similar number of stars were contained within some thing 50,000,000,000,000,000,000 times smaller than one grain of sand.

    Who has the greater faith--the man who believes this, or the man who believes a God created everything in the universe?
     
    1 Tidaltown, Jun 6, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2019
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  2. leatherhemet

    leatherhemet Well-Known Member
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    [​IMG]


    Mmmm...I'm going w singularity stuffed into atom believer guy.
     
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  3. Hawgaluiah

    Hawgaluiah Well-Known Member
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    Matter is neither created nor destroyed.
     
  4. leatherhemet

    leatherhemet Well-Known Member
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  5. Tidaltown

    Tidaltown Well-Known Member
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    Less enlightening than "God created all" and no more beneficial to an understanding of my question.

    If you believe that 14 billion years ago 20,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 planets and a similar number of stars were contained within some thing 50,000,000,000,000,000,000 times smaller than 1 atom, then your faith is science is greater than my faith in God.

    At least I believe in something that offers an plausible explanation while you believe in something entirely impossible and ridiculous, for remember, all those stars and planets--even if compressed into some thing smaller than an atom--still requires an act of creation. Someone/Something had to create that smaller than an atom object that had billions of planets and stars within it. I know of no accepted scientific theory that proves all matter came from a vacuum.
     
  6. MarineG8R

    MarineG8R Well-Known Member
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    Give it a rest.

    Edit: Except for me. I’m free to post as I please.
     
    6 MarineG8R, Jun 6, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2019
  7. p0kefan

    p0kefan Well-Known Member
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    We are only in this life for a 100 years or so, don’t worry about this or why we’re here or who created it and just enjoy the time you have left with the people you love.
     
  8. VolBall90

    VolBall90 Well-Known Member
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    If God isn’t responsible for creation of life, and if you believe the atom theory, at what point did non-living matter become living matter? And how?
     
  9. Tidaltown

    Tidaltown Well-Known Member
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    Kurt Vonnegut takes it a step further. He says ignore the unpleasant things and concentrate only on the pleasant ones. But if life is but a momentary sidetrack on a rail that transports us through eternity, I'd think we'd be better served than doing only what you recommend. Maybe we'd be better off following Christ's two commandments.
     
  10. Tidaltown

    Tidaltown Well-Known Member
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    That's easy. It happened by chance and accident. This is why the universe is teeming with life and why anyone can create it with a simple chemistry set.
     
  11. VolBall90

    VolBall90 Well-Known Member
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    All we need is Walt and Jesse and an RV. Science.
     
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  12. ivan brunetti

    ivan brunetti Well-Known Member
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    "God" has traditionally been used to describe that part of nature that man doesn't yet understand.

    Sun floating in the sky? God.
    Storms? God.
    Crop failure? God.
    Solar eclipse? God.
    Person hit by lightning? God.

    The big bang and what preceded is no different.
     
    12 ivan brunetti, Jun 6, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2019
  13. BleedRed89

    BleedRed89 Well-Known Member
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    The science is remarkable. If true, it's definitely difficult to fathom.

    I can still wrap my brain around it easier then the concept of God.
     
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  14. Highwayman19

    Highwayman19 Well-Known Member
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  15. Tidaltown

    Tidaltown Well-Known Member
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    "Science" has traditionally been used to describe that part of nature that man doesn't yet understand.

    Spontaneous generation? Science.
    Vitalism? Science.
    Classical Elements? Science.
    Phlogiston theory? Science.
    Four Bodily Humours? Science.
    Tooth worm? Science.

    The big bang and what preceded is no different.
     
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  16. ivan brunetti

    ivan brunetti Well-Known Member
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    Except that religion has a 4500 year head start on science wrt balderdash.
     
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  17. Tidaltown

    Tidaltown Well-Known Member
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    It is indeed remarkable. To accept it, you have to believe in miracles. Take the theory of abiogenesis--life forming from inert matter.

    Agnostic scientist Michael Denton observes :"The complexity of the simplest known type of cell is so great that it is impossible to accept that such an object could have been thrown together suddenly by some kind of freakish, vastly improbable, event. Such an occurrence would be indistinguishable from a miracle."

    Astronomer Fred Hoyle describes it this way: Supposing the first cell originated by chance is like believing "a tornado sweeping through a junk yard might assemble a Boeing 747 from the materials therein."

    It appears abiogenesis believers do indeed believe in miracles, only they believe in ones performed by a god they have yet to recognize or credit.
     
  18. Tidaltown

    Tidaltown Well-Known Member
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    Which means nothing. It's either right or wrong regardless of the time involved.
     
  19. BleedRed89

    BleedRed89 Well-Known Member
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    Of course I believe in miracles. Naturally occurring miracles with no divine intervention behind them.
     
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  20. DawginSC

    DawginSC Well-Known Member
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    The big difference with science is that when a proposed explanation is proven wrong... it's discarded by the scientific community.

    A scientific theory has to be testable.
    It only remains a theory as long as the tests confirm the theory.
    If they don't... that theory is proven incorrect. It either has to be changed to match the results of the test... or thrown away entirely.

    Religion tends to not be testable... and when evidence proves the ideas religion presents about the creation of the universe as wrong... they double down on it.
     
  21. Arrogant_Bastard

    Arrogant_Bastard Well-Known Member
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    God takes complete faith and speaks in absolutes. The achievements of science can be seen all around us, and it is always trying to improve on itself. Not really debatable as to which is easier to believe.
     
  22. maxpower024

    maxpower024 Well-Known Member
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    The big bang and the existence of God aren't mutually exclusive. Also there is evidence to support the big bang theory.
     
  23. ocalaman

    ocalaman Well-Known Member
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    In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. That's what I know and believe.
     
  24. Tidaltown

    Tidaltown Well-Known Member
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    I'm afraid "naturally occurring miracles" is an oxymoron and cannot exist, not unlike a "god fearing atheist" or "sightless sniper," "quadraplegic running back," etc.
     
  25. autzen_rocks

    autzen_rocks Poster
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    Probably my favorite person of all time.
     
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  26. Tidaltown

    Tidaltown Well-Known Member
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    Like science, some aspects of religion are not testable. I rather doubt there is much of any way to test the topic of this thread.
     
  27. BleedRed89

    BleedRed89 Well-Known Member
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    I suppose that depends on how you define "miracle".
     
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  28. Tidaltown

    Tidaltown Well-Known Member
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    Yes, it is interesting. I understand the Big Bang Theory, but it takes a gigantic leap of faith to accept that everything in the universe was once contained in something 50,000,000,000,000,000,000 times smaller than a grain of sand. In fact, the theory is that the entire universe was contained within some thing millions of times smaller than an atom, or millions of times smaller than some thing 50,000,000,000,000,000,000 times smaller than a grain of sand.

    I find it infinitely easier to believe in the Resurrection and other miracles than to believe that.
     
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  29. BSC911

    BSC911 Well-Known Member
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    I like this answer. Simple and succinct.
     
  30. Tidaltown

    Tidaltown Well-Known Member
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    Yes, but the primary and most common definition of a miracle is a surprising and welcome event that is not explicable by natural or scientific laws and is therefore considered to be the work of a divine agency.

    Therefore, a "naturally occurring" miracle is impossible because a miracle is something that cannot be naturally occurring as it violates scientific laws.
     
  31. DawginSC

    DawginSC Well-Known Member
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    All science is based on experimentation.

    A scientific experiment involves a scientific hypothesis which is a testable "guess" at what an answer to a question would be. It must be testable.

    Once a hypothesis has been confirmed by experimentation many times... it begins to be referred to as a theory. A theory isn't an educated guess. It's a hypothesis that has been confirmed to such a degree that it's accepted by the scientific community as true. These are things like quantum theory or the theory of natural selection (what some people call evolution) or the theory of heliocentrism.

    Science is by definition testable. If it's not... it's not science. That's what the scientific method is all about.

    If there's not some experimentation that confirms or disproves a hypothesis... it's just someone making up an explanation like "magic" or "gods" or "space aliens". It has to be testable in some way to be called science.
     
  32. DawginSC

    DawginSC Well-Known Member
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    In the beginning, the giant snail-being called Gargleflex farted and the universe was formed.

    Simple and succinct... with just as much evidence as the "god" explanation.
     
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  33. BleedRed89

    BleedRed89 Well-Known Member
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    Again. It depends on how you define it.
     
  34. Tidaltown

    Tidaltown Well-Known Member
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    But was this creature you named contained within some thing 50,000,000,000,000,000,000 times smaller than one grain of sand? If so, then science cannot disprove your theory. If, however, he's larger than that, you have problems with your theory.
     
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  35. BSC911

    BSC911 Well-Known Member
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    True, but the other version makes for a better story.
     
  36. leatherhemet

    leatherhemet Well-Known Member
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    When I think of the plausibility of this event happening the way they say it did, I think of this quote by Ravi Zacharias..

    An utterly fascinating illustration of this duping of ourselves is the latest arts building opened at Ohio State University, the Wexner Center for the Performing Arts, another one of our chimerical exploits in the name of intellectual advance. Newsweek branded this building “America’s first deconstructionist building.” It’s white scaffolding, red brick turrets, and Colorado grass pods evoke a double take. But puzzlement only intensifies when you enter the building, for inside you encounter stairways that go nowhere, pillars that hang from the ceiling without purpose, and angled surfaces configured to create a sense of vertigo. The architect, we are duly informed, designed this building to reflect life itself-senseless and incoherent-and the “capriciousness of the rules that organize the built world.” When the rationale was explained to me, I had just one question: Did he do the same with the foundation?

    The laughter in response to my question unmasked the double standard our deconstructionists espouse. And that is precisely the double standard of atheism! It is possible to dress up and romanticize our bizarre experiments in social restructuring while disavowing truth or absolutes. But one dares not play such deadly games with the foundations of good thinking.
     
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  37. speedfrk

    speedfrk Well-Known Member
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    I don't understand why people come to a college football board to debate this stuff.

    Have you every changed anyone's position on this board? Ever?
     
  38. bomber89

    bomber89 Well-Known Member
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    I think the guy who created, "Name a star after someone you know" is brilliant and he is not going to run out of inventory anytime soon. :)
     
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  39. Tidaltown

    Tidaltown Well-Known Member
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    If one is troubled by the existence of God, the better approach is to study the historicity of Christ. He claimed He was God. There are writings contemporaneous to Christ's time that contain this claim and many other statements, observations, and assertions He made.

    Thus, as CS Lewis explains in greater detail, Christ was either a liar, a lunatic, or He was God, all depending on how you judge the historicity of Christ and the accounts of His life, His spoken words, and accomplishments.

    I would guess everyone would conclude that if He indeed raised people from the dead, controlled the weather, and violated the laws of physics, He had to be a Supernatural Being. As atheists discard that belief, they are left with the record of His life proving him either a liar or a lunatic.

    Given Christ's recorded words and the wisdom therein, it is rather difficult to categorize him as a liar or charlatan, or as an immensely insane and delusional man. But that's what the atheist is left with.
     
  40. leatherhemet

    leatherhemet Well-Known Member
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    Antony Flew, famous atheist at one time(became a believer in God late in life, based on the big influence of Christian apologist and friend Gary Habermas) said all you have to do is read the sermon on the mount(the words of Jesus) and know without a doubt Jesus was a first rate ethicist.

    https://creation.com/review-there-is-a-god-by-antony-flew
     
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