Solution to college basketball cheating and quality of product

Matt Laurer

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Accidentally posted this on the football board:

I like a combo of the baseball rule along with a tweak of what Jay Bilas has proposed.

1. Kids can go pro directly out of HS or stay in college 3 years.

2. Players can profit from their likeness. Sell jerseys, autographs, commercials, etc. Take loans from agents too. Caveat that all income is reported and taxable. Additionally, 10% of their revenue is donated to a trust that is redistributited to all 351 schools for non-revenue sports. Kind of like the baseball luxury tax. Lastly, if The player elects to accept money and earns significantly more than their scholarship is worth, the money goes back to the AD to be distributed among other non-revenue sports.
 

Hank_

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Additionally, 10% of their revenue is donated to a trust that is redistributited to all 351 schools for non-revenue sports. Kind of like the baseball luxury tax.

I was with you until this commie bit.

There would be a lotttttt of schools trying to get into D1 athletics, if that were the case.
 

theetommyt

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Accidentally posted this on the football board:

I like a combo of the baseball rule along with a tweak of what Jay Bilas has proposed.

1. Kids can go pro directly out of HS or stay in college 3 years.

2. Players can profit from their likeness. Sell jerseys, autographs, commercials, etc. Take loans from agents too. Caveat that all income is reported and taxable. Additionally, 10% of their revenue is donated to a trust that is redistributited to all 351 schools for non-revenue sports. Kind of like the baseball luxury tax. Lastly, if The player elects to accept money and earns significantly more than their scholarship is worth, the money goes back to the AD to be distributed among other non-revenue sports.

An how do you propose to enforce the NBA to accept your rule #1?
 

RockChalkRally

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I like the general premise of at proposals. The tough part would be finding ways to implement them. We have to have a starting point.
 

viviajm

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An how do you propose to enforce the NBA to accept your rule #1?

Notify the NBA players association that until they do away with rule as it exists no coaches or scouts will be aloud on any campus, in any arenas, current student players will not participate in the off season trials. There will nothing further that will in any way be seen as college being a free farm club.
 
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theetommyt

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So it's completely unenforceable. Scouts can buy tickets, communicate, meet off-campus as well as attend any event open to the public. Players can go to the scouting combine, play in summer leagues, etc on their own. All you would be doing is creating a new, different back channel.
 

Cat_Incognito

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I naturally tend to oppose any view of Bilas' because he's an absolute hack; however, these aren't bad proposals.

I think 3 years is a bit much. Would rather that be shortened to 2 years.
 

Matt Laurer

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I was with you until this commie bit.

There would be a lotttttt of schools trying to get into D1 athletics, if that were the case.

You clearly lack an understanding of economics. Without revenue sharing in my proposal, the other schools would dry up. With this new influx of money coming in for the players, the have’s need to help the have nots. And before you start screaming about Bernie or Lenin, consider it works splendidly for MLB and the NFL.
 

Rhavicc

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Accidentally posted this on the football board:

I like a combo of the baseball rule along with a tweak of what Jay Bilas has proposed.

1. Kids can go pro directly out of HS or stay in college 3 years.

2. Players can profit from their likeness. Sell jerseys, autographs, commercials, etc. Take loans from agents too. Caveat that all income is reported and taxable. Additionally, 10% of their revenue is donated to a trust that is redistributited to all 351 schools for non-revenue sports. Kind of like the baseball luxury tax. Lastly, if The player elects to accept money and earns significantly more than their scholarship is worth, the money goes back to the AD to be distributed among other non-revenue sports.

#1 would not solve this issue at all. There are no differences between agents trying to pursue fourth year high school players and trying to win their services, having them sign with a certain shoe company when they become pros, and trying to pursue third year college players, trying to win their services and having them sign with a certain shoe company when they become pros.

When agents and shoe companies see a desirable talent they they want to sponsor, they're going to do some shady, nefarious shit to get that player in the fold if it's financially beneficial to them. It does not matter one iota if it is at the high school level, or the collegiate level. Doesn't even matter if the player is already in the NBA. If they see a player that plays at a high level and has potential to be a household name in the NBA, agents and shoe companies will do what they need to do to sponsor them and sign them.

#2 on the other hand would work. 2 is a great idea where, not only the player benefits, but everybody in college athletics.

Also...

For #2 to work more effectively, #1 cannot ever be implemented. People get excited about high school phenoms. Shoe companies, agents, local or even some big businesses get excited about high school phenoms. They have a ready-made brand that could immediately give the influx of money to college athletics in general that scenario #2 suggests.

People get more excited about the Anthony Davis, Kevin Durant, Marvin Bagley, Trae Young, Karl-Anthony Towns types of the world more-so than they get excited about the Buddy Hield, Jalen Brunson, Frank Kaminsky, Frank Mason types. Your more veteran, well developed players that are really efficient, they get certain groups of fans excited, and perhaps they can get local business sponsorship, very seldom a name brand sponsorship. The high school phenom turned young collegiate superstar types though? Everybody gets excited about them. Fans from all over, agents, shoe companies, NBA franchises, big businesses. They're always the hot commodity nationally, and having those players cycle through college? That's big-time money to be made. That's why it's necessary to bring those guys through college if you were to ever implement scenario #2.
 

Hank_

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You clearly lack an understanding of economics. Without revenue sharing in my proposal, the other schools would dry up. With this new influx of money coming in for the players, the have’s need to help the have nots. And before you start screaming about Bernie or Lenin, consider it works splendidly for MLB and the NFL.

No, I don’t.

There are 351 division 1 basketball teams, made up of mostly public, state funded institutions.

There are 30 MLB and 32 NFL teams, made up of private members of legal partnerships.

You clearly lack an understanding of scope and how opportunistic college admins are. You offer a free check, and they’ll fall all over each other to get in on the deal.
 
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Rhavicc

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No, I don’t.

There are 351 division 1 basketball teams, made up of mostly public, state funded institutions.

There are 30 MLB and 32 NFL teams, made up of private members of legal partnerships.

You clearly lack an understanding of scope and how opportunistic college admins are. You offer a free check, and they’ll fall all over each other to get in on the deal.

In fairness, there are a lot of schools trying to get into D1 athletics anyway. Even so, only a select few actually garner a net positive from D1 athletics. As it stands, being a high level D1 athletics program is the only way for athletics departments and schools to actually make money from athletics. At least with what the OP proposed, the potential is there for more universities across the nation to flourish, and there would be more opportunities for students across the board.
 
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Hank_

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In fairness, there are a lot of schools trying to get into D1 athletics anyway. Even so, only a select few actually garner a net positive from D1 athletics. As it stands, being a high level D1 athletics program is the only way for athletics departments and schools to actually make money from athletics. At least with what the OP proposed, the potential is there for more universities across the nation to flourish, and there would be more opportunities for students across the board.

I can’t agree with that. There are too many zombie organizations propped up by state funding to begin with. If you want to give bloated college admin departments an additional shot of novacane to dump into the void, I understand, but I can’t support it.
 

Matt Laurer

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I can’t agree with that. There are too many zombie organizations propped up by state funding to begin with. If you want to give bloated college admin departments an additional shot of novacane to dump into the void, I understand, but I can’t support it.
They already do that. Conferences share NCAA tournament winnings. Same with bowls. This is a continuation of what’s already happening.
 

Matt Laurer

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#1 would not solve this issue at all. There are no differences between agents trying to pursue fourth year high school players and trying to win their services, having them sign with a certain shoe company when they become pros, and trying to pursue third year college players, trying to win their services and having them sign with a certain shoe company when they become pros.

When agents and shoe companies see a desirable talent they they want to sponsor, they're going to do some shady, nefarious shit to get that player in the fold if it's financially beneficial to them. It does not matter one iota if it is at the high school level, or the collegiate level. Doesn't even matter if the player is already in the NBA. If they see a player that plays at a high level and has potential to be a household name in the NBA, agents and shoe companies will do what they need to do to sponsor them and sign them.

#2 on the other hand would work. 2 is a great idea where, not only the player benefits, but everybody in college athletics.

Also...

For #2 to work more effectively, #1 cannot ever be implemented. People get excited about high school phenoms. Shoe companies, agents, local or even some big businesses get excited about high school phenoms. They have a ready-made brand that could immediately give the influx of money to college athletics in general that scenario #2 suggests.

People get more excited about the Anthony Davis, Kevin Durant, Marvin Bagley, Trae Young, Karl-Anthony Towns types of the world more-so than they get excited about the Buddy Hield, Jalen Brunson, Frank Kaminsky, Frank Mason types. Your more veteran, well developed players that are really efficient, they get certain groups of fans excited, and perhaps they can get local business sponsorship, very seldom a name brand sponsorship. The high school phenom turned young collegiate superstar types though? Everybody gets excited about them. Fans from all over, agents, shoe companies, NBA franchises, big businesses. They're always the hot commodity nationally, and having those players cycle through college? That's big-time money to be made. That's why it's necessary to bring those guys through college if you were to ever implement scenario #2.
Regarding point 1, I don’t find it nefarious if the athlete has garnered their attention. And under scenario 2, it wouldn’t matter because everything would be above board and reported.
 

nitewing

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You clearly lack an understanding of economics. Without revenue sharing in my proposal, the other schools would dry up. With this new influx of money coming in for the players, the have’s need to help the have nots. And before you start screaming about Bernie or Lenin, consider it works splendidly for MLB and the NFL.
MLB Baseball what is called the MINORS LEAGUES A, AA, AAA the NBA does not.
very rarely does a 1st round pick go straight to the bigs out of HS,
 

Matt Laurer

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MLB Baseball what is called the MINORS LEAGUES A, AA, AAA the NBA does not.
very rarely does a 1st round pick go straight to the bigs out of HS,
What in sweet baby Jesus are you talking about?
 

nitewing

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What in sweet baby Jesus are you talking about?
real simple trying to compare the NBA TO MLB on the rule about staying for 3 years if they don't want to go the NBA, to put it very BLUNTLY
NBA has 2 rounds
MLB has multiple rounds and has a minor league set up to take their draft picks, as very very very few players go straight to the Majors.

for this to work with the NBA , they would have to set up a Minor league, to develop the players they draft.
 

Kevin Bryan

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I agree with most of that, but the 3-year thing will never work. It will come down to letting them go pro straight out of HS or staying 2 years if they go to college. That would be the compromise from the NBA and NBAPA. The ones that aren't good enough to go pro straight out of HS would be ok playing in college for 2 years, IMO. Three is too much. Most players on the cusp of NBA readiness woundn't want to wait that long to start making money. Either they will just enter the NBA out of HS when they aren't ready and toil around in the G-League or they will just bypass college and go straight overseas for a few years before jumping to the NBA.
 

Matt Laurer

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real simple trying to compare the NBA TO MLB on the rule about staying for 3 years if they don't want to go the NBA, to put it very BLUNTLY
NBA has 2 rounds
MLB has multiple rounds and has a minor league set up to take their draft picks, as very very very few players go straight to the Majors.

for this to work with the NBA , they would have to set up a Minor league, to develop the players they draft.
You are a special one.

I referenced the NFL and MLB to illustrate how revenue sharing works. That’s all.

The nba isn’t gonna take but a few guys out of HS. College will be their minor leagues like It always has.
 

bkingUK

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I don't like the analogy to baseball because it's not the same. Do you really think there is no corruption in college baseball? There almost definitely is and if it had the value of basketball or football it'd be every bit as corrupt.

The NCAA is an organization built on amateurism, but which became one of the biggest for-profit sports organizations on the planet. They have no interest in going back to the days of pure amateurism. If people wanted that product they'd be watching D2.

Other than doing things to give an appearance of change, I doubt much will be done to fix the issue. They'll make more rules, which will be skirted, because there will be money on the table.

Even if the top players go pro out of college, the same incentives to pay players who do go to college still exist.
 
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bkingUK

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Also, the root of he problem is that we have academic institutions running pro sports programs. The system makes little sense.

The ideal solution is to eliminate the NCAA altogether and create a new pro league from the ashes, if you ask me.
 
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nitewing

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I don't like the analogy to baseball because it's not the same. Do you really think there is no corruption in college baseball? There almost definitely is and if it had the value of basketball or football it'd be every bit as corrupt.

The NCAA is an organization built on amateurism, but which become one of the biggest for-profit sports organizations on the planet. They have no interest in going back to the days of pure amateurism. If people wanted that product they'd be watching D2.

Other than doing things to give an appearance of change, I doubt much will be done to fix the issue. They'll make more rules, which will be skirted, because there will be money on the table.

Even if the top players go pro out of college, the same incentives to pay players who do go to college still exist.
ahh of course the old EVERYBODY CHEATS argument. starting to defend Cal already I see.
 

nitewing

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there is nothing stopping these players from going overseas straight out of HS.

get rid of the corruption and give the college game back to the Amatuers where it belongs,

there are just a handful of players each year that are good enough to go pro out of HS.
 

nitewing

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how is Baseball corrupt as a HS player depending on the round can get paid 250,000 + just to sign and then they can collect a salary.

Iowa had a players drafted in the 5th round and receiver 250,000 dollar signing bonus, college Baseball does not rake in the money that FB or BB does.
 

bkingUK

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how is Baseball corrupt as a HS player depending on the round can get paid 250,000 + just to sign and then they can collect a salary.

Iowa had a players drafted in the 5th round and receiver 250,000 dollar signing bonus, college Baseball does not rake in the money that FB or BB does.

Exactly, and if there was financial incentives and big money around college baseball, more players would be paid.

To think that coaches and institutions who have millions of dollars riding on these players will not lt result in players paid is simply willful ignorance.
 

nitewing

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That makes no sense on any level.
it makes all the sense in the world.
this is what the NBA should do, start up a minor league and expand the draft to 7+ rounds that way anybody who wants to go pro to get paid, they can do so.
 

nitewing

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pay pay pay IS that all you can think of, for close to 7+ decades college BB WAS just fine. now its pay the players. the problem is not every school can afford to pay. only the select few have the money to pay these players.

is that what you want? create SUPER POWER teams?
 

lurkeraspect84

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pay pay pay IS that all you can think of, for close to 7+ decades college BB WAS just fine. now its pay the players. the problem is not every school can afford to pay. only the select few have the money to pay these players.

is that what you want? create SUPER POWER teams?
You really think paying players just started? Ever heard of Sam Gilbert?

UCLA invented "SUPER POWER teams".
 

nitewing

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well guess what the NCAA is going to be forced by the FBI to clean the corruption up, coaches are going to start losing their jobs. and that's exactly what it is CORRUPTION.
 

theetommyt

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Also, the root of he problem is that we have academic institutions running pro sports programs. The system makes little sense.

The ideal solution is to eliminate the NCAA altogether and create a new pro league from the ashes, if you ask me.
This is it. Bingo.

The Olympics quit acting like they were amateur competitions decades ago.
 

theetommyt

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the Olympics are getting the pro's out of their games.
If you're only think US mainstream team sports, but even then it's usually minor league but still professional players. Figure skaters, swimmers, track athletes, etc are professional and get paid.