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Refs so far this season.

lurkeraspect84

lurkeraspect84

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Mar 4, 2014
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To me it seems they're letting them play more. I don't know the overall foul count or whatnot, but the games seem more physical.

I'm also enjoying the flop warnings. I've saw a couple that didn't look like a flop to me. so I'm glad they're not just calling obvious ones.

Block/charges aren't standing out as much either.
 
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lurkeraspect84 said:
To me it seems they're letting them play more. I don't know the overall foul count or whatnot, but the games seem more physical.

I'm also enjoying the flop warnings. I've saw a couple that didn't look like a flop to me. so I'm glad they're not just calling obvious ones.

Block/charges aren't standing out as much either.
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Nice to see a little old school toughness play out for a change. Refreshing.

Still not ready for Higgins yet.
 
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lurkeraspect84 said:
To me it seems they're letting them play more. I don't know the overall foul count or whatnot, but the games seem more physical.

I'm also enjoying the flop warnings. I've saw a couple that didn't look like a flop to me. so I'm glad they're not just calling obvious ones.

Block/charges aren't standing out as much either.
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I agree. I’m enjoying the little bit of physical play. Refs just can’t let opponents go 2013 Louisville or Press Virginia on opponents and foul the crap out of them up and down the court.
 
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rockycard said:
What’s your team known for?
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chicken-chicken-bro.gif
 
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The refs from the auburn/Florida game the other night must not have gotten the memo on fouls being down. Florida was in the bonus at 16:30 mark in the second half. The refs literally took walker and Jabari out of the game which ticky tack shit
 
I think for the most part refs are doing an ok job so far. Still don't get the charges / blocks right, at least as much as they should being refs and all lol. And refs with a bad angle should just hold their air and wait for something they can actually see. But it does seem better than in the past.

Maybe @IUfanBorden can help me out this one. Late calls - why? just curious
 
AuHoosier420 said:
The refs from the auburn/Florida game the other night must not have gotten the memo on fouls being down. Florida was in the bonus at 16:30 mark in the second half. The refs literally took walker and Jabari out of the game which ticky tack shit
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Yeah, but man, Auburn is very handsy and they take physicality to another level.
When you look closely, you see that Auburn is always raking the ball away and they get a lot of arm when they do that.
If the refs called every foul, Pearl would be pulling students out of the stands at halftime.
 
I think the officials have done a great job so far. The games are definitely more physical, but it’s a much better product and I like seeing good players on the court instead of the bench.
Oscar is still getting called for a lot of touch fouls, but big guys always get that.
 
kyjeff1 said:
Yeah, but man, Auburn is very handsy and they take physicality to another level.
When you look closely, you see that Auburn is always raking the ball away and they get a lot of arm when they do that.
If the refs called every foul, Pearl would be pulling students out of the stands at halftime.
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LOL. One of the fouls called on Jabari he didn’t even touch the guy. The refs literally thought the backboard touching him was Jabari. Kessler had 2 fouls that were all ball.
 
Big_C_KU said:
I agree. I’m enjoying the little bit of physical play. Refs just can’t let opponents go 2013 Louisville or Press Virginia on opponents and foul the crap out of them up and down the court.
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Lmao we ran a token press in 2013 to make the opponent use some shot clock bringing it up the floor and then dropped into a matchup zone. We werent pressing like wvu or arky back in the day, full bore man to man all over the court to force turnovers. And most def werent “fouling all over the court” lmao nice revisionist history, we ran a zone 80% of the time.
 
BasketBallJunkie-UK said:
I think for the most part refs are doing an ok job so far. Still don't get the charges / blocks right, at least as much as they should being refs and all lol. And refs with a bad angle should just hold their air and wait for something they can actually see. But it does seem better than in the past.

Maybe @IUfanBorden can help me out this one. Late calls - why? just curious
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99% of "late calls" are due to what we call PCA's--or Primary Coverage Area. Its protocol to give way to said official if the play happens, or ends, in his/her, PCA. A lot of times you'll see lat calls come from the "center" official. You have the lead, trail and center....Lead and trail are always on the same side, and the center kinda of sags at, or below the FT line extended. There can be times when the center official sees something that neither the lead/trail see, but he holds his whistle, b/c its in their PCA---if they do not get, you'll see the center cme in strong, and get the call. It seems late--and to an extent, it is----but not really. Remember---the whistle doesn't make the ball dead----the foul/violation/Timeot does. THe whistle just indicates something has occurred, and stops the clock/play.

If Im the lead official, and the dribbler staarts in my primary, drives to the goal, we have procedure we follow---crash and pass, OR give the primary first crack----YOu do this to try and avoid a double whistle, and/or two different calls. SOmetimes double whistles happen, and thats not a bad thng, or even wrong; as there is a gray area where PCA's cross. SO dribbler starts in my area, drives, gets bumped but its in the trails PCA----He doesn't get it(call it), but maybe he's straight lined, view is blcked---whatever---So now as the lead, I can see this, come in "late", and make the call.

Best I can explain it...

As for block charge---Hardest call in sports----and also the hardest rule/concept for most fans to understand. I chuckle everytime I hear----"He/she was moving."---99.999999% of the time, that is 100% irrelevant. Folk don't understand legal guarding position, maintaining it, and what you can/can't do once you have established it. Or how displacement works.....To me the hardest block/charge to make is that of a secondary defender. Personally, I hate it. But if player is legal, then he's legal, and ya gotta call it. I think by rule, and by interpretation, you'd be shocked at how many block charges are absolutely 100% the right call. Problem is, ESPN, FOX SPorts, CBS, only wanna show the really bad block/charge call(s), then show it over and over and over----then talk about it for 15 minutes----then spend another 10 explaining how it needs fixed....

Over one BAD call----Never mind the other 5 that were right. Weird they never show those calls over and over and over----huh?
 
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BasketBallJunkie-UK said:
I think for the most part refs are doing an ok job so far. Still don't get the charges / blocks right, at least as much as they should being refs and all lol. And refs with a bad angle should just hold their air and wait for something they can actually see. But it does seem better than in the past.

Maybe @IUfanBorden can help me out this one. Late calls - why? just curious
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And to add on the "late calls"---At times, a patient whistle is encouraged. Make sure you see what you think you are seeing. SOmething we teach/taught at clinincs----be patient, when you can. But then, when ya do that---fans yell, "Late whistle"---And when you're not patient, fans yell---"quit anticipating"...

Lose/lose profession brother.
 
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Watching the AU/Bama game, there were 2-3 times where dude step on the baseline and they didn't call it. I understand letting fouls go, but baseline out of bound? That seems lazy.
 
ISU got a raw deal on the missed goaltend. Seemed clear as day live. Fact goaltends aren’t reviewed is ridiculous now a days especially considering questionable ones like that happen so few times a season for a team.
 
IUfanBorden said:
And to add on the "late calls"---At times, a patient whistle is encouraged. Make sure you see what you think you are seeing. SOmething we teach/taught at clinincs----be patient, when you can. But then, when ya do that---fans yell, "Late whistle"---And when you're not patient, fans yell---"quit anticipating"...

Lose/lose profession brother.
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No doubt it is a lose/lose proposition. Thanks for the explanation. That was good! I actually remember the double whistles at one time. The block/charge thing is difficult. You have 1 ref trying to determine the movement of two guys. Which guy is the ref actually focusing on, because that could distort his decision. Sometimes, even with if the replay, was the guy set or not in time. And does the offense even have time to avoid it?

One of these days, and it could be done now, is with computer vision / machine learning that could spot a foul anywhere on the court. If the AI disagrees with the official, then review.
 
AuHoosier420 said:
LOL. One of the fouls called on Jabari he didn’t even touch the guy. The refs literally thought the backboard touching him was Jabari. Kessler had 2 fouls that were all ball.
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You think Refs only do that to Auburn?
 
BasketBallJunkie-UK said:
No doubt it is a lose/lose proposition. Thanks for the explanation. That was good! I actually remember the double whistles at one time. The block/charge thing is difficult. You have 1 ref trying to determine the movement of two guys. Which guy is the ref actually focusing on, because that could distort his decision. Sometimes, even with if the replay, was the guy set or not in time. And does the offense even have time to avoid it?
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It depends, but mostly you key in on the defender....Especially so in a fast break situation. After all, most of the time its the defender that determines the call, i.e. was he in a legal guarding position, did he move INTO the offensive player, did he reach in and commit a foul BEFORE the contact, was he in/outside of the arc, etc....

Good point with asking did the offense have time to avoid the contact. Defense, especially a secondary defender, has to establish a legal position, BEFORE the offensive has started his shot, or has begun to leave the ground. Same with offensive player jumping up to catch a pass, then turning to dribble----Defense has to allow him run to come down, AND make a basketball play.

Block/charge is always---ALWAYS going to be the most debated call in ALL of sports----simply b/c its such a subjective action. And in most instances, is almost always a "bang/bang" type of play. Add in the factor of the speed the game is played at , the athletes, etc, etc----and then having less than a second to decide many different scenario's----and its a damn tough call at times.
 
lurkeraspect84 said:
Watching the AU/Bama game, there were 2-3 times where dude step on the baseline and they didn't call it. I understand letting fouls go, but baseline out of bound? That seems lazy.
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Maybe they didn't see it, OR----maybe the felt he was forced out, but not a ton of contact to warrant a foul, but enough to cause player to step OOB---SO instead of banging a "cheap foul"---official decides to ignore both, and play on...

I have done this before....Even on a push, AKA, "over the back". I give the ball to white, and coach yells, "Borden, they clearly hit it man....."---And I'll walk over and say, "Ya know John, probabaly so. BUt your guy banged him good, but I didn't wanna put a cheap foul on your dude, so I decided to give them ball. "Well, ****, Borden, just call thre god damn foul then". Ok, John, I will----So next time instead of them JUST getting the ball, and us moving on-----they're gonna get the ball, AND your guy is gonna get a foul....So which scenrio do you like better, John----THem JUST getting the ball----Or them getting the ball AND your guy ALSO getting a foul?

Usually the conversations ends there.

Same with stepping OOB----If I feel the defender wasn't legal, but ya know, kinda of meh---and his action causes player to step on the baseline/sideline, I'll leave both alone, play on. Which leads to the same conversation at times...

"Borden, he stepped OOB."---
"Yeah Mike, looked like he did---but your guy bumped him a tad. I didn't wanna call a cheap one there, so I just let it go...."

Well, call the god damn foul, if he fouled him....

OK, Mike, I will. So next time, not only do they get to keep the ball, but your dude's getting a foul as well.. Which scenario you like better, Mike?

Again, conversation usually ends..
 
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Big_C_KU said:
ISU got a raw deal on the missed goaltend. Seemed clear as day live. Fact goaltends aren’t reviewed is ridiculous now a days especially considering questionable ones like that happen so few times a season for a team.
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So, ummm---Was it "clear as day"-----or was it "questionable"? 😁
 
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IUfanBorden said:
Maybe they didn't see it, OR----maybe the felt he was forced out, but not a ton of contact to warrant a foul, but enough to cause player to step OOB---SO instead of banging a "cheap foul"---official decides to ignore both, and play on...

I have done this before....Even on a push, AKA, "over the back". I give the ball to white, and coach yells, "Borden, they clearly hit it man....."---And I'll walk over and say, "Ya know John, probabaly so. BUt your guy banged him good, but I didn't wanna put a cheap foul on your dude, so I decided to give them ball. "Well, ****, Borden, just call thre god damn foul then". Ok, John, I will----So next time instead of them JUST getting the ball, and us moving on-----they're gonna get the ball, AND your guy is gonna get a foul....So which scenrio do you like better, John----THem JUST getting the ball----Or them getting the ball AND your guy ALSO getting a foul?

Usually the conversations ends there.

Same with stepping OOB----If I feel the defender wasn't legal, but ya know, kinda of meh---and his action causes player to step on the baseline/sideline, I'll leave both alone, play on. Which leads to the same conversation at times...

"Borden, he stepped OOB."---
"Yeah Mike, looked like he did---but your guy bumped him a tad. I didn't wanna call a cheap one there, so I just let it go...."

Well, call the god damn foul, if he fouled him....

OK, Mike, I will. So next time, not only do they get to keep the ball, but your dude's getting a foul as well.. Which scenario you like better, Mike?

Again, conversation usually ends..
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Lol that’s high quality reffing.
 
Hell in okla st Texas game okla st had shot 16 free throws before Texas got there first one with 6 min.s left in gameLOL.
 
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lurkeraspect84 said:
I watched the last game you posted. You're a good ref. I'd like to see you on TV.

How do you move up?
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Go to camps/clinics. When I was @ USI, Bruce Pearl introduced me to a fellar named James Dunlap---He worked HS/college ball. He got me started. I worked HS for about 5 years----went to clinics/camps, got invited to work NAIA....Continued to go to more camps, bigger clinincs, and was offered to wrk D2----then D1. SOmetimes you just get lucky. I had a HS game about 10 years ago, or so----Head of officials for regional area was in attendance...Came into the locker room afterwards, invites me to a mega camp at WKU. I guess they liked how I worked, and I just cntinued to move up.

Its not hard per say to get started----Anyone can go to a camp/clinic; though some are by invite only. But hell any dude on here can look up "college basketball clinic/camps, pay the $$, and get after it.

I was supposed to work some OVC games this year, but due to reoccurring cardiac issues, I couldn't pass physical/get cardiac clearance in time, so I had to give my games back. Most of the college games I work are not televised, and if they are, its via streaming, or just local TV coverage. UNlike HS, I do not have the right to post those games.

I'm going back to WKU this year, and to WVU for camp; ran by Mike Eades---who helped me as well when he oversaw the River States COnference(NAIA). Just like most thinkgs----hard work goes a long ways.
 
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lurkeraspect84 said:
To me it seems they're letting them play more. I don't know the overall foul count or whatnot, but the games seem more physical.

I'm also enjoying the flop warnings. I've saw a couple that didn't look like a flop to me. so I'm glad they're not just calling obvious ones.

Block/charges aren't standing out as much either.
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I'VE SAW? Really!!!
 
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