Preseason 150 Most Impactful Players in 2021-22

AUnit

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Is Allen Flanigan omitted on purpose or a simple oversight. He's projected late 1st-early 2nd for 2022 and put up 14.5ppg (14th in SEC) 5.5reb (20th in SEC) 2.9ast (19th in SEC).....which is a pretty strong resume. Opinions are what they are and I know you aren't a fan of the SEC, but having guys like Davonte Davis, Walker Kessler, and Iverson Molinar ahead of Flanigan doesn't make sense.

Au'Diese Toney is too low. And I really hate saying this, but so is Justin Powell....but if he plays a full season it will be the first time since his sophomore year of high school.
 

dukedevilz

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Is Allen Flanigan omitted on purpose or a simple oversight. He's projected late 1st-early 2nd for 2022 and put up 14.5ppg (14th in SEC) 5.5reb (20th in SEC) 2.9ast (19th in SEC).....which is a pretty strong resume. Opinions are what they are and I know you aren't a fan of the SEC, but having guys like Davonte Davis, Walker Kessler, and Iverson Molinar ahead of Flanigan doesn't make sense.

Au'Diese Toney is too low. And I really hate saying this, but so is Justin Powell....but if he plays a full season it will be the first time since his sophomore year of high school.

First, like any predictions, these are subjective and highly prone to error. There are probably dozens of players overvalued and undervalued.

Allen Flanigan is currently injured. Might come back Mid-December? If healthy, he'd be in there somewhere, yes. Maybe he'll pick up right where he left off. Just seems a bit dicey to include someone in there who might miss 10+ games and is still fighting off rust. But, maybe I should give him the benefit of the doubt.

Davis and Kessler could easily be breakout stars this year. Actually, yes, I like the odds of both of them making one of the All-SEC teams... Toney perhaps is too low. I just wouldn't expect his usage rate to be the same on a better team. Perhaps I could have factored Toney's defensive prowess in a little more... FWIW, I've seen 5 different top 100 lists - and guess what? Not a single one has Justin Powell in the top 100. I actually value his production more than the professional prognosticators. He has a nice skillset, though. And he can clearly shoot.

Why would you think I'm not a fan of the SEC? They easily have the best collection of point guards in the country (Pippen, Quinerly, Chandler, Washington). I'm not an ACC homer. I probably watched more Big 10 and Big 12 games last year than any other conference. I focus most of my attention on top 50 teams. ACC had 9 teams that weren't even in the top 50. So, I missed quite a few ACC games. Typically watch 20-25 games a week. Have a pretty good feel for the power conferences.
 

dukedevilz

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2. Kofi Cockburn, Illinois
5. Hunter Dickinson, Michigan
7. Trayce Jackson-Davis, Indiana
8. EJ Liddell, Ohio State
10. Jaden Ivey, Purdue

2nd Team
16. Trevion Williams, Purdue
22. Andre Curbelo, Illinois
34. Eric Ayala, Maryland
41. Caleb Houstan, Michigan
57. Ron Harper, Rutgers

3rd Team
75. Max Christie, Michigan State
87. Zach Edey, Purdue
100. Keegan Murray, Iowa
102. DeVante' Jones, Michigan
105. Xavier Johnson, Indiana

Just Missed
106. Justice Sueing, Ohio State
124. Jordan Bohannon, Iowa
129. Gabe Brown, Michigan State

That's Illinois, Purdue and Michigan with 8 of the top 14 players. Interest

Qudus Wahab should have been in there, actually. That was an oversight on my part. He's probably a top 100 player.
 

lurkeraspect84

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First, like any predictions, these are subjective and highly prone to error. There are probably dozens of players overvalued and undervalued.

Allen Flanigan is currently injured. Might come back Mid-December? If healthy, he'd be in there somewhere, yes. Maybe he'll pick up right where he left off. Just seems a bit dicey to include someone in there who might miss 10+ games and is still fighting off rust. But, maybe I should give him the benefit of the doubt.

Davis and Kessler could easily be breakout stars this year. Actually, yes, I like the odds of both of them making one of the All-SEC teams... Toney perhaps is too low. I just wouldn't expect his usage rate to be the same on a better team. Perhaps I could have factored Toney's defensive prowess in a little more... FWIW, I've seen 5 different top 100 lists - and guess what? Not a single one has Justin Powell in the top 100. I actually value his production more than the professional prognosticators. He has a nice skillset, though. And he can clearly shoot.

Why would you think I'm not a fan of the SEC? They easily have the best collection of point guards in the country (Pippen, Quinerly, Chandler, Washington). I'm not an ACC homer. I probably watched more Big 10 and Big 12 games last year than any other conference. I focus most of my attention on top 50 teams. ACC had 9 teams that weren't even in the top 50. So, I missed quite a few ACC games. Typically watch 20-25 games a week. Have a pretty good feel for the power conferences.
I wonder how many games a week you watched.
 

dukedevilz

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I wonder how many games a week you watched.

Too many lol. But, I have to divest myself of pretty much all other sports. I watch a minimal amount of football games (usually only portions in the 2nd half if it's a close game). I don't watch NBA games between November-March. I look at stats and highlights for the NBA, that's about it. I'm 100% invested in college basketball.
 

dukedevilz

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And the tough thing about college basketball is, you can never know enough. There's too much information to absorb. Too many players to track. Too many injuries to sort through. Too many breakout players to consider. Too many mid-majors that are being overlooked.
 

dukedevilz

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To save myself time, I might do a good chunk of my viewing through this channel. Started watching some of these games last February. This guy loves basketball way more than me. He uploads a ridiculous amount of games with extended highlights. A solid 20 minutes worth of content - and he cuts out most of the non-essential portions of the game.

I want to say he typically uploads a game within 3 hours of a game concluding. Saturdays are a little slower as he's managing multiple games at a time. He told me that he and his wife do all of the editing. Incredible stuff.
 

lurkeraspect84

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To save myself time, I might do a good chunk of my viewing through this channel. Started watching some of these games last February. This guy loves basketball way more than me. He uploads a ridiculous amount of games with extended highlights. A solid 20 minutes worth of content - and he cuts out most of the non-essential portions of the game.

I want to say he typically uploads a game within 3 hours of a game concluding. Saturdays are a little slower as he's managing multiple games at a time. He told me that he and his wife do all of the editing. Incredible stuff.
Thanks.
 
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Villian07

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To save myself time, I might do a good chunk of my viewing through this channel. Started watching some of these games last February. This guy loves basketball way more than me. He uploads a ridiculous amount of games with extended highlights. A solid 20 minutes worth of content - and he cuts out most of the non-essential portions of the game.

I want to say he typically uploads a game within 3 hours of a game concluding. Saturdays are a little slower as he's managing multiple games at a time. He told me that he and his wife do all of the editing. Incredible stuff.
Impressive stuff
 
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IUfanBorden

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Breaking down the B1G the same way:

1st Team
2. Kofi Cockburn, Illinois
5. Hunter Dickinson, Michigan
7. Trayce Jackson-Davis, Indiana
8. EJ Liddell, Ohio State
10. Jaden Ivey, Purdue

2nd Team
16. Trevion Williams, Purdue
22. Andre Curbelo, Illinois
34. Eric Ayala, Maryland
41. Caleb Houstan, Michigan
57. Ron Harper, Rutgers

3rd Team
75. Max Christie, Michigan State
87. Zach Edey, Purdue
100. Keegan Murray, Iowa
102. DeVante' Jones, Michigan
105. Xavier Johnson, Indiana

Just Missed
106. Justice Sueing, Ohio State
124. Jordan Bohannon, Iowa
129. Gabe Brown, Michigan State

That's Illinois, Purdue and Michigan with 8 of the top 14 players. Interesting.
Tamar Bates is a kid being seriously overlooked....
 
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dukedevilz

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Forgot Timmy Allen

But we could see Jaylon Tyson pushing him a lot sooner than I originally thought
Tyson is a real one

Allen is as well.
PAC 12 isn’t that bad. Guy is a scorer. Should have that space to operate

Hah you're right. I had him in my top 10 SFs poll. Not sure why he wasn't included. Might have to re-do this whole list - just so I can include Qudus Wahab and Timmy Allen... If I left them off, it's likely I'm excluding a few other guys.
 

FaithPlusOne

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To save myself time, I might do a good chunk of my viewing through this channel. Started watching some of these games last February. This guy loves basketball way more than me. He uploads a ridiculous amount of games with extended highlights. A solid 20 minutes worth of content - and he cuts out most of the non-essential portions of the game.

I want to say he typically uploads a game within 3 hours of a game concluding. Saturdays are a little slower as he's managing multiple games at a time. He told me that he and his wife do all of the editing. Incredible stuff.

I started watching that station last year. So helpful that someone went through the time and effort to do that. I’m a big fan.
 

Villian07

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100% chance you'll have multiple SWAC and MEAC teams. Those schools are bloody awful. In KenPom history (20 years!), the SWAC and MEAC have had a combined 4 schools in the top 150.
Yea but if all the teams are awful, be hard to figure out who is the worst although that will be very useful ooc. I need the hands down worst teams in conferences that have good teams as well who will def dogwalk the bottom feeders. Like the A10 bottom feeder, prolly gonna get waxed by richmond/bonnies/davidson etc

Last year my money makers to fade were idaho, chicago st, delaware, sc state, marist, miss valley state, among others.

In conf i Like to take teams who beat their opponent on the road, in the home rematch. And roll small teams with good homecourts like murray state, western ky, dayton, wich st etc

i bet way more on mid majors than top 25 teams.
 
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Villian07

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At least its a good song, the rap version at least. Forgot who sang it, mace maybe.

edit: may not be another version 🤣 idk
 

Villian07

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texas top 5 got sheriff “hope”game higher than the goodyear blimp.
 

Villian07

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Lets talk about the talent that they carryin,

All these stars, like a fkin planitarium
 

Villian07

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All they do is roll on scrubs,

break the roster down, and its filled up with studs
 

Villian07

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Name that tune. Sippin on some sizzup, shine, and Last ones easy, smoke if u got it

now ur earworms got earworms
 
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Villian07

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Lol ive never heard that one. Obv mace stole the hook but his rymes are pretty legit in the rap version. I always like the rap remixes better, like Im free by pimp c, stole from free falling, walking in memphis yo gotti, and most def pure cocaine yo gotti which is a purple rain remix. Although all those originals are amazing song too, they are just a little before my time.
 

Villian07

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Never heard walkin in mephis the yo gotti version? Pretty good stuff. Not as good as the pure cocaine tho imo
 

Villian07

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If you like rap music. I gree up during the rap explosion in the 90s and early 2000s. Not exactly OGs like beasty boys, nwa, etc but still alot of good music from that era.

Lil wayne made most of it 😂 his remixes are so silly. Take another famous rap beat and make a better song off it like knuck if u buck and ice cream paint job. As well as non rap songs like poker face by gaga and i got a feeling by black eyed peas. No ceilings is one of my fave albums ever.
 
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lurkeraspect84

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If you like rap music. I gree up during the rap explosion in the 90s and early 2000s. Not exactly OGs like beasty boys, nwa, etc but still alot of good music from that era.

Lil wayne made most of it 😂 his remixes are so silly. Take another famous rap beat and make a better song off it like knuck if u buck and ice cream paint job. As well as non rap songs like poker face by gaga and i got a feeling by black eyed peas. No ceilings is one of my fave albums ever.
You know I mean no offense, but...

Post some songs here. If not sure how, I'll help.

 

AUnit

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First, like any predictions, these are subjective and highly prone to error. There are probably dozens of players overvalued and undervalued.

Allen Flanigan is currently injured. Might come back Mid-December? If healthy, he'd be in there somewhere, yes. Maybe he'll pick up right where he left off. Just seems a bit dicey to include someone in there who might miss 10+ games and is still fighting off rust. But, maybe I should give him the benefit of the doubt.

Davis and Kessler could easily be breakout stars this year. Actually, yes, I like the odds of both of them making one of the All-SEC teams... Toney perhaps is too low. I just wouldn't expect his usage rate to be the same on a better team. Perhaps I could have factored Toney's defensive prowess in a little more... FWIW, I've seen 5 different top 100 lists - and guess what? Not a single one has Justin Powell in the top 100. I actually value his production more than the professional prognosticators. He has a nice skillset, though. And he can clearly shoot.

Why would you think I'm not a fan of the SEC? They easily have the best collection of point guards in the country (Pippen, Quinerly, Chandler, Washington). I'm not an ACC homer. I probably watched more Big 10 and Big 12 games last year than any other conference. I focus most of my attention on top 50 teams. ACC had 9 teams that weren't even in the top 50. So, I missed quite a few ACC games. Typically watch 20-25 games a week. Have a pretty good feel for the power conferences.

Right on. Thanks for responding. Can't argue with the logic on Flanagan. He's on schedule with his rehab (at least that's the "info" going around). Achilles can be tough to come back from, but it was a clean rupture so reconstruction/replacement wasn't necessary. Which was huge for recovery time and and should minimize any lingering/chronic pain. Fingers crossed. My hope is he's back in the groove mid to late January. He could, likely will, be cleared to play by Christmas, but it's going to take some time to get acclimated from a conditioning and team chemistry standpoint. But if all goes well, he could hit his stride at crunch time for Auburn's season. We'll see.

Powell being successful at Tennessee is more of a gut prediction than an evidence based prediction. Which I know you want to try and avoid with these lists. But if Barnes uses him correctly and he stays healthy (BIG if), his ability from the arc could give opposing coaches nightmares.

As for Tony, he's definitely in a much larger pond at Arkansas, but he improved in every statistical category every year at Pitt. While not elite, he finished top 20 in ACC for both ppg and rpg. And 24th in assists. He's being projected by many to start at the 2 for Arkansas but those are projections until tip-off. Arkansas is going to be good this year.

You not liking the SEC was more tongue-in-cheek than serious. We're not talking football here. The SEC is getting better and better but aside from Kentucky and maybe Arkansas, it's still a conference of "new money" programs that love talking sh*t while standing in front of small or nonexistent trophy cases.....

.....that said, I can't wait to watch Auburn play in New Orleans next April.
 

Villian07

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You know I mean no offense, but...

Post some songs here. If not sure how, I'll help.

no offense taken and no offense meant but I feel like it would be much easier for you to youtube them if ur interested, bc i struggle hard. The only ever picture ive successfully put on here was a screenshot of my feet psriasis and i had to link my email 😂

forgot about the other thread, but these are all older albums like decades old. Im not much on the new school rap, when they made soldier boy and gucci mane famous i had to check out. Thats not rap.
 
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dukedevilz

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Right on. Thanks for responding. Can't argue with the logic on Flanagan. He's on schedule with his rehab (at least that's the "info" going around). Achilles can be tough to come back from, but it was a clean rupture so reconstruction/replacement wasn't necessary. Which was huge for recovery time and and should minimize any lingering/chronic pain. Fingers crossed. My hope is he's back in the groove mid to late January. He could, likely will, be cleared to play by Christmas, but it's going to take some time to get acclimated from a conditioning and team chemistry standpoint. But if all goes well, he could hit his stride at crunch time for Auburn's season. We'll see.

Powell being successful at Tennessee is more of a gut prediction than an evidence based prediction. Which I know you want to try and avoid with these lists. But if Barnes uses him correctly and he stays healthy (BIG if), his ability from the arc could give opposing coaches nightmares.

As for Tony, he's definitely in a much larger pond at Arkansas, but he improved in every statistical category every year at Pitt. While not elite, he finished top 20 in ACC for both ppg and rpg. And 24th in assists. He's being projected by many to start at the 2 for Arkansas but those are projections until tip-off. Arkansas is going to be good this year.

You not liking the SEC was more tongue-in-cheek than serious. We're not talking football here. The SEC is getting better and better but aside from Kentucky and maybe Arkansas, it's still a conference of "new money" programs that love talking sh*t while standing in front of small or nonexistent trophy cases.....

.....that said, I can't wait to watch Auburn play in New Orleans next April.

That all seems reasonable. If healthy, Flanagan is going to be very productive and impactful. And I definitely think Powell could have a monster sophomore season. If my rankings are more-or-less accurate, that would make Powell a 2nd Team All-Conference choice (on those weird 8-man teams, of course).

SEC is coming around for sure. Oats and Musselman were homerun hires. Sad to say, but it's likely that in the foreseeable future, the SEC will consistently be a better conference than the ACC. We have too many schools that have been stuck in mediocrity - and then our good schools have aging coaches (minus Virginia). Roy Williams retired; K will be gone after this season; Hamilton and Boeheim will probably be gone within 5 years. We need a resurgence of sorts.
 

dukedevilz

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Tamar Bates is a kid being seriously overlooked....

Overlooked? Perhaps. But, "seriously overlooked" is flirting with hyperbole.

I only have 17 freshmen in my top 150. I generally don't value them as much as the upperclassmen. I have roughly 20 players from each of the power 6 conferences. If someone makes my top 150 list, they're essentially a preseason all-conference player in my view.

Look at the composite rankings from last year, and see how many freshmen outside of the top 25 made an all-conference team. I'm seeing just two guys, Hunter Dickinson and Moses Moody. Tamar Bates was 27th on the composite rankings. He could have a productive year, certainly. But, there's a big difference between a productive year and being a top 150 player.
 

Ipartiedwithhopgood

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That all seems reasonable. If healthy, Flanagan is going to be very productive and impactful. And I definitely think Powell could have a monster sophomore season. If my rankings are more-or-less accurate, that would make Powell a 2nd Team All-Conference choice (on those weird 8-man teams, of course).

SEC is coming around for sure. Oats and Musselman were homerun hires. Sad to say, but it's likely that in the foreseeable future, the SEC will consistently be a better conference than the ACC. We have too many schools that have been stuck in mediocrity - and then our good schools have aging coaches (minus Virginia). Roy Williams retired; K will be gone after this season; Hamilton and Boeheim will probably be gone within 5 years. We need a resurgence of sorts.
Yeah and that traditional power that be Louisville who should be one of the ACC elite is in a world of hurt right now big picture view. The ACC may not realize it but their overall stature looks a lot different if you have Louisville anywhere near their standard.

That's about as far as I go with homer takes. Not really a homer take though, reality. Real talk ITT!
 

dukedevilz

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Yeah and that traditional power that be Louisville who should be one of the ACC elite is in a world of hurt right now big picture view. The ACC may not realize it but their overall stature looks a lot different if you have Louisville anywhere near their standard.

That's about as far as I go with homer takes. Not really a homer take though, reality. Real talk ITT!

On paper, seems like the ACC should be a consistently dominant conference. We have the likes of Duke, UNC, Syracuse, Louisville, Virginia, and Florida State.

We keep going down in the KenPom conference rankings. Not a good trend.

2016-18: 2nd
2019: 3rd
2020: 4th
2021: 5th
 
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lurkeraspect84

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On paper, seems like the ACC should be a consistently dominant conference. We have the likes of Duke, UNC, Syracuse, Louisville, Virginia, and Florida State.

We keep going down in the KenPom conference rankings. Not a good trend.

2016-18: 2nd
2019: 3rd
2020: 4th
2021: 5th
Plus you've lost 3 HOF coaches, or about to, and add a 4th to the list win Jim retires.

Hamilton isn't getting any younger either. He was Joe B. Hall's coaching staff before I was born. I was born in '75.
 
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Ipartiedwithhopgood

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It's a new era. As this list shows, there are high end players everywhere, and now with the transfer rules more freedom for the players to move around.

It's not that the ACC is done, it's just down.

The SEC has always had talent across rosters but maybe not the coaching. Now you've got a combo of proven vet coaches and up and coming coaches to go with, and none of them jumped to a job opening last year. The SEC teams are actually playing the brand the upper ACC teams used to play, up tempo high level fun to watch style. If it's fun to watch, which it is... then it's probably fun to play in those systems. HS kids notice, and it's no surprise some SEC teams are big winners in the transfer portal too.
 

dukedevilz

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It's a new era. As this list shows, there are high end players everywhere, and now with the transfer rules more freedom for the players to move around.

It's not that the ACC is done, it's just down.

The SEC has always had talent across rosters but maybe not the coaching. Now you've got a combo of proven vet coaches and up and coming coaches to go with, and none of them jumped to a job opening last year. The SEC teams are actually playing the brand the upper ACC teams used to play, up tempo high level fun to watch style. If it's fun to watch, which it is... then it's probably fun to play in those systems. HS kids notice, and it's no surprise some SEC teams are big winners in the transfer portal too.

Good analysis. SEC is playing an exciting brand of basketball and those coaches are going to attract high-end talent because of that.