Post your thoughts on Villanova here

Discussion in 'College Basketball Board' started by Ipartiedwithhopgood, Feb 25, 2015.

  1. Ipartiedwithhopgood

    Ipartiedwithhopgood Well-Known Member
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    The Rodney Dangerfield of the Top 5.

    I know Champs got a thread going on these guys a few weeks ago I can't find it so let's start over - I hope Champs finds this and chimes in his wisdom on NE hoops is great.

    So anyway I know they got a lot of good ball players I see Hilliard is on fire and they are now heading into the B East T and NCAA T in what feels like a better way than last year. The PG is just gritty and their wings can do some things.

    Team can shoot lights out do they have enough up front to be one of the last 4 standing?

    Thoughts?
     
  2. mebeblue2

    mebeblue2 Well-Known Member
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    good not great
     
  3. wcc31

    wcc31 Well-Known Member
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    Growing on me. I'd put them right there in a dead heat with Wisconsin, Arizona and Gonzaga for that last 1-seed. In fact, right now, I'd give them a slight edge. With that said:

    - Have a lot of good victories, but nothing that really stands out.
    - KenPom likes Arizona more.
    - I still think Wisconsin is slightly better.
     
  4. Ipartiedwithhopgood

    Ipartiedwithhopgood Well-Known Member
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    What team is a bad matchup for Nova?

    Other than the #1 team, which we all agree is a bad matchup for everybody.

    A team with an inside presence I assume?

    Nova had a shot blocker last year, foreign kid I think. He still in the fold? Too lazy to research it. Brill where are you dude?
     
  5. ManRoar

    ManRoar Well-Known Member
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    Like a poster above said. Good but not great. They play in an overrated conference. They could still be dangerous in March

    I think they are sitting solid in the "2nd tier"
     
  6. BassCat75

    BassCat75 Well-Known Member
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    I don't quite know what to make of them. They have a ton of good wins, really no great wins. Only one sorta bad loss though and they just keep winning. I'm not totally sold on them but at the same time I wouldn't be at all surprised if they made a deep run either. I think at this point they have a better resume than Wisc or Gonzaga in terms of getting a 1 seed.
     
  7. MM07

    MM07 Well-Known Member
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    Shoot like last night and they can be the 2nd best team in the country, one off shooting night and they lose in the round of 32. We will see, lot to prove this year.
     
  8. sdybsky726

    sdybsky726 Well-Known Member
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    Positions 1-3 are very, very good and deep. Arcidiacono has been incredibly consistent, hit some huge shots and rarely turns the ball over, Hilliard is having a BE POY season, Dylan Ennis (brother of Tyler) offense has sputtered, but he's been a tremendous defensive presence. Josh Hart off the bench is one of the best 6th men in the country. Great energy guy whose skill is improving by leaps and bounds. Freshman Phil Booth has been coming along very nicely, playing under control and putting up some great numbers off the bench. At the 4/5 they are much improved over last year. Jenkins has been solid off the bench. Pinkston started off slowly, but is having a very strong finish to his sr year. With him, you kind of know what you're gonna get. Against most teams, he's a matchup nightmare, however if he's going up against someone long and athletic, he can struggle. Ochefu, who was the most improved player in the BE last year, could very well get that award again this year. He's had some huge games this year - 20+ pts and 20+rebounds - against good competition. Problem with him is that he's been inconsistent. He'll look like a lottery pick one game and then the next game he'll struggle to put up 10&10. At 6'11, he's a big reason why Nova is improved - we actually have an inside presence. A very well rounded team with very few if any weak spots. Very tough defensively. If the jump shots aren't falling - which is possible in those cavernous arenas - much of their tourney success could depend on their defense (which is elite), Pinkston (solid) and Ochefu (question mark).......are they a great team....not sure. If you need to be at KY level to be great, then no. However, I would without question put them in the conversation with UVA, AZ, Duke, WI and Gonzaga from all of the games I have watched. I think any of those teams could beat the other on any given day. Wouldn't be surprised at all to see Nova in the F4, but as always, much of this is dependent upon matchups.

    This post was edited on 2/25 2:36 PM by sdybsky726
     
  9. JustinSphere

    JustinSphere Well-Known Member
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    Honestly haven't thought about em all year and even more honestly I couldn't name one player on their team other than
    Archidiacanoanaonoano. No slight to em, I just haven't went out of my way to think about em.
     
  10. Brahmabullgc

    Brahmabullgc Well-Known Member
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    A team with an inside presence is absolutely my biggest concern. Ochefu is a good center and a great shot blocker, but he really struggles against the better inside guys. Christmas, Josh Smith, and Stainbrook have outplayed him on both ends this year. On the flip side, he can dominate smaller teams with his size and athleticism. Has had some huge games including a 19 point 24 rebound game in a loss @SH, or his 19 point 7-7 shooting game a few games back against PC.

    This post was edited on 2/25 5:31 PM by Brahmabullgc
     
  11. brooky03

    brooky03 Well-Known Member
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    They'd be ranked 15-20 if they played in a better conference. Good, not great.
     
  12. champs99and04

    champs99and04 Well-Known Member
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    If by NE wisdom you mean NE bias then you are correct, haha. Thanks though.

    In regards to Villanova, I think they're a legitimate contender. I'm a lot higher on them than most. However, of all the top eight, they're the team I feel I have the strongest grasp of, probably because they're comprised of mostly veterans. I know what they are and I know what they aren't. Frankly, they remind me a lot of last years UConn team.

    The question is where they fall amongst their peers, and on that, I'm not quite sure. Kentucky is obviously the undisputed #1, but I don't know if they're great or historically great. I don't know if Virginia and Duke are really good or if they're great. I know they won the game, but the UNC game would alarm me a little if I were a Duke fan. Virginia's pace is probably going to doom them, same with Wisconsin. Arizona can look as good as anybody at times, other times they seem to lack perimeter scoring. To me, it's Kentucky and then seven other teams that could just as easily lose in the round of 32 as make the final four.
     
  13. champs99and04

    champs99and04 Well-Known Member
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    Which conference do you think is better, the one you're 0-2 against or the one you're 9-6 against?
     
  14. Cornered Weasel

    Cornered Weasel Well-Known Member
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  15. Cyclonacity

    Cyclonacity Well-Known Member
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    I think Villanova should right there competing for a 1 seed. The Big East is running black ops. We get reports and some data leaks out from time to time, but largely any info is mysterious. I think the conference should be quite good based on what little info does exist.
     
  16. brill

    brill Well-Known Member
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    Here im I parti haha.

    Yeah whoever said they would be 15-20 in a diff conference must be kidding. What league would be that in? the BE is #2 in the RPI and has 6 solid teams that will be in the NCAAs. Nova has dominated that #2 league. THis isn't the Big Sky conference.

    Syracuse is 0-2 against that league. So what are you thinking about that?

    Nova has all the things you would normally love in a tourney team and one that goes a long way. They have that 3 year starting PG who is as tough as they come and Wins, wins and wins. Hilliard is the BE POY. Hart is the best 6th man in America as someone stated. Ochefu will be the BE most improved player TWICE. Huge presence now. Our frontline is top3 in our league with Hart/Pinkston and Ochefu. maybe the best. Oh and our guards aren't bad. Arch, Ennis, Hilliard, and Booth are special. As good and experienced as any in America. Arch and Ennis juniors, Hilliard the senior. Booth the diaper dandy.

    Nova has a coach who has been there deep in the tourney, the 3 juniors and 2 seniors which you love to have and has been 55-7 over the last 2 years with these guys. They expect to win. And do most times. Very confident group that could easily be in the Final 4 if they have the right matchups as it is with everyone.

    I honestly think those that doubt or say they are in a weak league have not seen them play. I understand that. I have only seen Gonzaga play once. And Arizona once or twice.
     
  17. brooky03

    brooky03 Well-Known Member
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    The one we're 9-6 against. Why?

    The Big East is consistent top-to-bottom, but the top is weak. It wouldn't be out of line to say Nova would have at least 3 more losses if they were in the ACC. I haven't taken a look at the rankings lately. Where are teams with no real big OOC wins and 5 or 6 losses being ranked these days?

    This post was edited on 2/25 9:25 PM by brooky03
     
  18. brooky03

    brooky03 Well-Known Member
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    idk if you think my comment was sour grapes or something, but it wasn't. They just haven't been 'top 10' impressive this year from what I've seen.


    I really like Jay Wright as a coach, fwiw






    This post was edited on 2/25 9:34 PM by brooky03
     
  19. brianpoe

    brianpoe Well-Known Member
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    I am going to assume that in America doesn't include Kentucky?
     
  20. champs99and04

    champs99and04 Well-Known Member
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    You've lost me. You can speculate that Nova would have at least three more losses if they were in the ACC, but that would be assigning a level of superiority to the ACC that they have not earned. If Villanova swapped conference schedules with Duke, I don't think either teams record is much different - Nova would be around 12-3 and Duke would be around 13-2. Since you've acknowledged that the Big East is tough to bottom, I think it's fair to say that a young Duke team likely drops at least a couple having to go @ Providence, @ Georgetown, @ Xavier, @ Butler, @ St. Johns, etc. Granted Duke already did beat St. Johns, but it was a hard fought game.

    If Villanova was in the ACC and played Duke's schedule, they would have to play @ Louisville, @ Notre Dame, and @ Virginia, but they'd also have more easy games (BC, Wake, GT, FSU, Clemson, etc.). I'm also fairly confident in saying your club would have more than six losses playing in the Big East.
     
  21. sdsufan10

    sdsufan10 Well-Known Member
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    Kenpom has big east as 2nd best conference in country, ACC 3rd. The big east is objectively very good, but people had predetermined thoughts on conference coming into this year and won't give it its proper due.


    As for Nova, they are a legit final 4 threat
     
  22. KisteK

    KisteK Well-Known Member
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    I like them. Top 4-6 imo. The tourney is about matchups, who knows.


    I wouldn't be "surprised" if they made the title game - level of "like".
     
  23. brill

    brill Well-Known Member
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    good posts champs, kistek, sdsu.

    Exactly. Nobody pays a lick of attention to the BE being 2nd in RPI. They just turn the other way. But if their conference was 2nd that is all we would be hearing about. The BE has beaten the ACC this year. The bottom of the ACC is absolute SLOP. What OOC wins does the bottom half have? Who has Pitt beaten all year? Who did ND beat in OOC? They played the 330th best sched OOC. they will bomb out as always. UNC lost to Butler OOC. THey are way overrated with what 9 losses now? or 8? Why are they ranked? They haven't earned it.

    The top 4 of BE can compete with almost any league. Nova, Butler, Gtown, Prov. 3 of those 4 are in top 25 and Gtown is #26. All have been top 25 RPI since January. Louisville btw has done Zilch in the OOC as well. I would love to draw them in the tourney as a 1-4 game. Their resume is so medicocre

    I love how ESPN is giving no love. They disrespect b/c Nova isn't on their network. Last night Dakich talking about if Duke or UVA slips up who can steal the 1. All he drooled about was Wisconsin. Wait didn't they just lose and have 3 losses now? And don't have the most incredible resume. Nova's is better. But ZERO mention of if Nova wins out they will get the 1.
    Now I know why Coach Cooley went ballistic about the blatant disrespect. That works in Nova's favor. Just count us out. We love that
     
  24. brooky03

    brooky03 Well-Known Member
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    Our arguments are going to devolve quickly because they're based on speculation, and the concept of conference A being tougher than conference B is so subjective, it's nearly not worth merit.

    Depaul, Seton Hall, Creighton, and Marquette suck. Do they suck harder than Clemson, FSU, Wake Forest, Georgia Tech, Virginia Tech, and Boston College? idk, but it's a significant level of suckage, so I'm not sure splitting hairs between the bottom of the two conferences is worth it.

    There's a significant drop-off from Nova to G'town, Providence, and Butler. We're talking Top Ten team to fringe Top 25/unranked. In the ACC, you don't hit a non-Top 15 team until Syracuse at 6th. So, it stands to reason that an argument for the ACC being stronger at the top is not a ridiculous claim. Certainly you could claim bias in the favor of the ACC by voters, but I wouldn't agree.

    Where does that leave us? Well, I'd argue the top of the ACC is stronger and the bottoms of both conferences are awful to whatever degree (doesn't matter). Obviously we're left with the middle which is where the Big East has an advantage. Trying to compare the middle of conferences so different in the number of members is tough (does Providence count as the 'middle' or the 'top'?), but I can see an argument that St. John's could be ahead of Syracuse and Pitt; and I could see an argument that Xavier could be ahead of NC State and Miami. I don't necessarily agree with the arguments but I can see their validity.

    Syracuse would not have a worse conference record in the Big East than ACC, btw. We're not even close to good this year by our standards, but we wouldn't drop 6 games in the Big East. At worst, we'd split a two game series with the best team in the league.
     
  25. catintime

    catintime Well-Known Member
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    Brooky, off the top of my head, below is the top of the ACC this year vs the Big East. Duke 1-0.....Notre Dame......0-1......UNC.....0-1...Cuse....0-2. So Brooky, spin these numbers. A record of 1-4.
     
  26. brooky03

    brooky03 Well-Known Member
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    Head to head numbers early in the season usually mean little. Teams are at varying degrees of readiness early in the season and are typically night and day by the time they reach conference play. No spin needed.

    Syracuse lost to Memphis to start our Championship season. Was Memphis better than Syracuse that year? Was Conference USA (or whatever Memphis played in) better than the Big East?

    Also, I clearly put Syracuse in the 'middle' of the ACC. So, assuming the numbers are accurate, the top of the Big East is 2-1 against the top of the ACC. Not exactly a compelling sample size.
     
  27. catintime

    catintime Well-Known Member
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    Good try Brooky, good try.
     
  28. brill

    brill Well-Known Member
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    brooky- if the early season games are basically meaningless then why do we count them? If Syracuse had beaten Kansas in November you would be gloating about them. THey do matter. What else could you base it on then? Your image of these team's past history. That's a joke.

    And your ACC has 5 top 15 teams is flawed. Louisville is not good right now. I'm not sure they have a top 25 resume. It stinks. And ND??? what about them? THey play no defense and flame out in the 1st round every year b/ c they play zero defense.

    Butler is legit. Beat UNC . so what else do you say? ignore it? UNC is average at best. They are not a top15 team right now either. IF it wasn't for the media's love for them they would barely be in the top 25. Their resume is weak too.

    you have this image that these 5 teams in the ACC rule the world and can do no wrong. I'll bet 1 of them is in the elite 8. 2 maybe in sweet 16

    and Creighton beat Oklahoma btw. Does BC, Va tech, bottom feeders of ACC have that great a win?
    This post was edited on 2/26 10:00 AM by brill
     
  29. brooky03

    brooky03 Well-Known Member
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    I didn't say they were meaningless. We're comparing the strength of the current teams. Many teams aren't the same that they were early in the season (true for the Big East teams and the ACC team, good and bad), so you can't just hang your hat on good early season victories. I wasn't taking away the wins; the Big East teams won those two games and earned the wins, I was just putting the wins in context.

    Don't talk about flame-outs when the Big East's arguably second best team is G'twon, the godfather of NCAAT flame-outs.

    Butler beat UNC. Good win, good for them. Does that now mean that they'd be a top 3 team in the ACC??

    Nowhere did I even hint that the ACC teams 'can do no wrong'. I've considered Notre Dame a pretender all season and L'ville is in really bad shape right now. I did say, though, that they're better than their Big East counterparts and I stand by that.

    Oklahoma? Really? It was a good win, but come on. What do you want me to concede? That Creighton is slightly less craptacular than Wake Forest? Okay, Creighton is the king of being awful but not too awful. How's that?


    This post was edited on 2/26 12:31 PM by brooky03
     
  30. Hoya1987

    Hoya1987 Well-Known Member
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    UNC is ranked 15th, Lousiville is ranked 17th, and ND is ranked 9th.
     
  31. champs99and04

    champs99and04 Well-Known Member
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    It's definitely subjective in some respects, particularly because, as you mentioned, the data set is very limited. But there is also a level of objective measure involved - all of these teams, in all conferences, have played a dozen or so OOC games. Granted, it is difficult to compare a 10 team league to a 15 team league, but collectively the Big East was better than the ACC OOC. Does that mean the Big East is the better conference? Not necessarily, but in terms of things we can quantify, they get that check mark in their box and it should be something that is considered come selection Sunday.

    I agree that the middle of the ACC has gotten a lot better, but it has come at the expense of the top part. I don't think Louisville, Notre Dame, and UNC are that much better than Georgetown, Butler, and Providence. Virginia and Duke are certainly very good.

    As for your Syracuse team, you beat Virginia Tech, Wake Forest, and Georgia Tech by a combined six points. You're a lot better now, but early in the season you struggled big time and luckily played a soft schedule. The difference between a Big East schedule and an ACC schedule is that you have to play the good teams in the Big East twice. Based on your early struggles in the ACC I see no reason you would easily win on the road against Seton Hall, Marquette, or Creighton.
     
  32. Devilicious

    Devilicious Well-Known Member
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    Salivating to play Duke in the NCAAT. [​IMG]
     
  33. brooky03

    brooky03 Well-Known Member
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    Why wouldn't we easily win road games against those teams? They don't have particularly rabid fanbases and Seton Hall would likely be more orange than blue in the stands. If we get knocked for winning close games against bad teams, then we get credit for outplaying Nova for 99.9% of our game earlier this season.

    There was little doubt in the wins against VT, Wake, and GT for those who actually watched the games, so I don't see why there would be more doubt against the bottom feeders in the Big East.


    Edit: We'd also rock Georgetown by 20 because Georgetown ;)






    This post was edited on 2/26 1:28 PM by brooky03
     
  34. brill

    brill Well-Known Member
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    brooky- I do have to say about Creighton vs those slop ACC teams. Creighton is a very solid program. They just had 4 straight NCAAS with Dougie md D. Probably have more than that but don't feel like looking it up . They are in serious rebuild losing the national POY and Ethan Wragge and 1 other starter. They will be back in a year or so to the NCAAs.

    Wake Forest, BC, Fla St, Clemson all seem to be awful every year. When was Wake last good? And Marquette btw was just in 2 sweet 16s and a final 8 the previous 3 seasons. How many programs did that? Did Clemson? or BC? Marquette is in last place in our league and have a top 5 recruit coming in and a good recruiting class. They will be back to the top 5 in BE in a year or so with Wojo. None of those programs in ACC above will be anywhere near the top 5 or 6 EVER. Miami is mediocre. Certainly haven't done what Creigthton and Marquette have done.

    We have 1 awful program comparable to BC and Wake etc.. DePaul. They are the outlier. They bite. Seton hall does have stud freshman Whitehead and Delgado who were elite recruits and are trying to hold it together to be good in 2 years. So it's hard to rip our Bottom 4 other than DePaul and okay SEton Hall if you want. But we will get 5 or 6 bids and Marquette and Creighton will be back soon. I just see no "be back soon" for any of that ACC slop.

    Not sure how Syracuse will be. thought it was Bush they issued a probation mid season just to avoid a heavier one by the NCAAs. THey still may get hit more yet. Hard to criticize other programs right now whey your own has been shady for sure. Everyone knew it and now it came out
     
  35. champs99and04

    champs99and04 Well-Known Member
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    A game you won in overtime was never in doubt? OK. We'll have to agree to disagree on this topic. Kenpom has six Big East teams ranked above Syracuse. Even if we're to be generous and assume you split with all of them, you still have to go undefeated against the lower half.
     
  36. brooky03

    brooky03 Well-Known Member
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    I don't need a history lesson on Creighton. I'm aware of what they've don in the past, but that doesn't change my opinion of them this year. And why are we still talking about the bottom feeders? I thought I said it wouldn't be worth splitting hairs over them haha.

    You should also stop yourself before you really step in it while talking about something you're clearly ignorant of. I was talking strictly basketball this year. I was not putting down any programs for anything other than being bad teams this season. So, bringing up Syracuse and what we may or may not have done that's 'shady' is completely uncalled for and off-base. I doubt you're aware of what the possible transgressions entail or the timeline of events. I'm not in the position of throwing stones in a glass house here. B) You've completely sidetracked this debate and it's unfortuantely devolved more than I though it would. Villanova is a good team, just not 'that' good, and the Big East is a good conference, just not stronger than the ACC when considering NCAAT teams. I've stated my case and proved my point, IMO, so I'm out.
     
  37. brooky03

    brooky03 Well-Known Member
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    One more, then I'm done haha. You're actually not a sh*thead poster, so I like debating with you.

    Kenpom is not the be-all-end-all of college basketball rankings. It's a decent reference point, but suspect when comparing teams, especially head-to-head. Advanced statistical analysis is much more practical and useful for players than it is for teams, due to the difference in sheer number of variables.

    It was my mistake for comparing how Syracuse would perform in the Big East to how it has performed in the ACC. I still believe we'd be a 3 or 4 loss team at worst in the Big East, but this is 100% speculation that cannot be supported one way or the other. That renders it essentially useless for the purpose of meaningful discussion. Again, I shouldn't have bothered making the assertion.

    This thread is about Nova and our thought abouts them. I wasn't impressed when we played them early in the season and they haven't done anything to sway my opinion. They've only lost 2 games and play in a good conference. That's earned them their top 5/10 ranking. However, they're still more in the caliber of a top 15-20 team from what I've seen. That's all.
     
  38. SoundSlave

    SoundSlave Well-Known Member
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    Nova always has solid guards, which is crucial in March. They could definitely make some noise.
     
  39. brill

    brill Well-Known Member
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    soundslave- wow you have heard of them? wow. Might as well not mention Nova's guards on here b/c nobody knows who they are anyways. Thanks though! glad you get it.

    brooky- you are right; it wasn't the right thread to post it. Just thought it was ironic you were ripping Nova when your own program has major issues right now. I don't know all the specifics but I know what I know about Boeheim and I don't like him or what he stands for. That's all. Nothing more. Nothing less. I loved when Cuse was in the BE and I hope the NOva-cuse game continues. Great for the northeast for basketball. 2 legendary programs. I just can't imagine not being totally impressed with what Nova has done if you have watched them actually play. They have won EVERY conference game at home by double digits. And it is the 2nd best league in the RPI and will get 6 bids. It's impressive no doubt. Pick your poison when you play them. 8 guys can drop 20 on any given night
     

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