Pitt lands 4* PF William Jeffress

[HailToPitt725]

Ranked by 247 as the 58th best player and 11th best power forward in the nation. Moves Pitt up to 13th in the national recruiting rankings. Still a long way to go but a good piece nonetheless, needed a lot of help in the front court.

How do you guys view the job Jeff Capel is doing at Pitt? How many years do you think he is out from making the tourney? Any players that catch your attention on the roster? Always nice to hear what outsiders of the program have to say, positive or not.

 

[duckboy33]

Losing Jamie Dixon was tough for Pitt. I was surprised he left when he did. It seems like the administration at Pitt prioritizes hoops over football right now so they should get better.

 

[dukedevilz]

Before you guys went on that 7-game skid, I thought you were a lock for the NIT at least. Gotta love what Champagnie brings to the table. Still a big fan of X. Pitt has great athleticism - and the defense is MUCH improved from two years ago.

The offense is really hard to watch at times, though. I try to get excited to watch Capel's team, and sometimes it is a fun product to watch with the highlight dunks - but the turnovers, the poor shot selection, the iso-ball, that can really kill the flow of the game. And what happened with Trey McGowens? Did he get in a fight with a teammate or something? Hopefully that was only an isolated incident. Can't have selfish players killing the team camaraderie.

Overall, I like Pitt's trajectory. Gotta feel like they should be in the NCAAs by at least 2022. So, is this the projected starting five for next year?

Xavier Johnson
Ithiel Horton
Justin Champagnie
Au'Diese Toney / William Jeffress
John Hugley

 

[Kevin Bryan]

Losing Jamie Dixon was tough for Pitt. I was surprised he left when he did.

When the alma mater comes calling, most coaches listen. Unfortunately for him, they have gotten progressively worse since he's been at TCU.

 

[duckboy33]

When the alma mater comes calling, most coaches listen. Unfortunately for him, they have gotten progressively worse since he's been at TCU.

Sure but TCU is a downgrade. Not many coaches voluntarily take a job that's a step down.

 

[Kevin Bryan]

Sure but TCU is a downgrade. Not many coaches voluntarily take a job that's a step down.

I would call it a lateral move, and in that case the alma mater is going to win out more times than not. Neither program has ever accomplished much of anything, besides being bottom feeders in major conferences. Besides that, I think TCU doubled his salary.

 

[HailToPitt725]

Losing Jamie Dixon was tough for Pitt. I was surprised he left when he did. It seems like the administration at Pitt prioritizes hoops over football right now so they should get better.

It was a mutual separation. Pitt’s AD at the time, Scott Barnes, wanted to move on so he could bring in “his” guy, while Dixon was more open to trying something new. Too bad, I miss Coach Dixon. Good coach, great person.

Before you guys went on that 7-game skid, I thought you were a lock for the NIT at least. Gotta love what Champagnie brings to the table. Still a big fan of X. Pitt has great athleticism - and the defense is MUCH improved from two years ago.

The offense is really hard to watch at times, though. I try to get excited to watch Capel's team, and sometimes it is a fun product to watch with the highlight dunks - but the turnovers, the poor shot selection, the iso-ball, that can really kill the flow of the game. And what happened with Trey McGowens? Did he get in a fight with a teammate or something? Hopefully that was only an isolated incident. Can't have selfish players killing the team camaraderie.

Overall, I like Pitt's trajectory. Gotta feel like they should be in the NCAAs by at least 2022. So, is this the projected starting five for next year?

Xavier Johnson
Ithiel Horton
Justin Champagnie
Au'Diese Toney / William Jeffress
John Hugley

That all sounds about right, though Champagnie and Toney might be switched. The addition of Hugley is huge, no pun intended, because we’ve been lacking depth up front for a few years now. As for McGowens, his problem is that he came in with the expectation that he would be the main guard and the offense would run through him. Johnson progressed, McGowens played on his opposite guard, and he grew frustrated. At least that’s how I heard it developed.

I would call it a lateral move, and in that case the alma mater is going to win out more times than not. Neither program has ever accomplished much of anything, besides being bottom feeders in major conferences. Besides that, I think TCU doubled his salary.

You talking about Pitt when you say “neither program?” IIRC, we were one of the winningest programs for much of the 21st century before Dixon’s departure. Maybe you’re referring to our tenure in the ACC when you say “ever,” but we did win multiple regular season and Big East tournament championships before we left, along with being a perennial top ranked/tournament team. Heck, we had several Sweet Sixteens and an Elite Eight. I think we may see the term “bottom feeder” differently.

 

[Kevin Bryan]

It was a mutual separation. Pitt’s AD at the time, Scott Barnes, wanted to move on so he could bring in “his” guy, while Dixon was more open to trying something new. Too bad, I miss Coach Dixon. Good coach, great person.


That all sounds about right, though Champagnie and Toney might be switched. The addition of Hugley is huge, no pun intended, because we’ve been lacking depth up front for a few years now. As for McGowens, his problem is that he came in with the expectation that he would be the main guard and the offense would run through him. Johnson progressed, McGowens played on his opposite guard, and he grew frustrated. At least that’s how I heard it developed.


You talking about Pitt when you say “neither program?” IIRC, we were one of the winningest programs for much of the 21st century before Dixon’s departure. Maybe you’re referring to our tenure in the ACC when you say “ever,” but we did win multiple regular season and Big East tournament championships before we left, along with being a perennial top ranked/tournament team. Heck, we had several Sweet Sixteens and an Elite Eight. I think we may see the term “bottom feeder” differently.

No offense, just nothing there that shouts Pitt is a better program than TCU, especially not when the latter is willing to double your salary.

 

[SheriffBufordTJustice]

The difference between TCU and Pitt is financial.
Pitt at times has invested into their sports programs. Especially in basketball in the 1990s.
But TCU was throwing money at their programs when they moved into the Big 12. They still are in regards to their football stadium.

Ed Schollmaier received naming rights for that arena and he wanted a coach. He gave TCU around 40 million dollars. He being the former CEO of Alcon Laboratories.
Only decent coach who would listen was Jamie Dixon.
They had no choice. Dixon was the only guy who would take the job and he negotiated that into a good contract.

 

[duckboy33]

I would call it a lateral move, and in that case the alma mater is going to win out more times than not. Neither program has ever accomplished much of anything, besides being bottom feeders in major conferences. Besides that, I think TCU doubled his salary.

Disagree on it being a lateral move. PItt is a much better job. Money can be a big driver but I think it was a mistake by Dixon if he was just chasing the money

 

[Kevin Bryan]

Disagree on it being a lateral move. PItt is a much better job. Money can be a big driver but I think it was a mistake by Dixon if he was just chasing the money

I doubt he was just chasing the money (like I said, alma mater has some pull). What it really boils down to is it's closing time and there are two chicks left at the bar, both fat and fugly. Are you going back with the one who has a nicer place or are you going to the trailer park to lasso up a heifer?

 

[duckboy33]

Since 2000:

Tournament Appearances:
Pitt - 13
TCU - 1

Conference Championships (Regular Season or Tournament)
Pitt - 6
TCU - 0

Sweet 16 Appearances:
Pitt - 5
TCU - 0

Clear downgrade

 

[duckboy33]

I doubt he was just chasing the money (like I said, alma mater has some pull). What it really boils down to is it's closing time and there are two chicks left at the bar, both fat and fugly. Are you going back with the one who has a nicer place or are you going to the trailer park to lasso up a heifer?

I disagree. Pitt has invested in their basketball facilities and Dixon had good success at Pitt. He left to go to a program with zero history and is really out of their league in the Big 12. They are only in the conference because of their football program.

 

[duckboy33]

The difference between TCU and Pitt is financial.
Pitt at times has invested into their sports programs. Especially in basketball in the 1990s.
But TCU was throwing money at their programs when they moved into the Big 12. They still are in regards to their football stadium.

Ed Schollmaier received naming rights for that arena and he wanted a coach. He gave TCU around 40 million dollars. He being the former CEO of Alcon Laboratories.
Only decent coach who would listen was Jamie Dixon.
They had no choice. Dixon was the only guy who would take the job and he negotiated that into a good contract.

It was a great hire for TCU. I just don't really understand why Dixon would take the job. It's not often you see coaches take a clear downgrade.

 

[Kevin Bryan]

Since 2000:

Tournament Appearances:
Pitt - 13
TCU - 1

Conference Championships (Regular Season or Tournament)
Pitt - 6
TCU - 0

Sweet 16 Appearances:
Pitt - 5
TCU - 0

Clear downgrade

What you aren't accounting for is that Dixon is the reason for that success, those are his accolades you listed. What did Pitt do before him and what have they done since? Since he has been at TCU he won the NIT first year, took them to their first NCAAT in 20 years the 2nd, and went to the NIT semis last year. He is 84-57 since he has been at TCU. Meanwhile, Pitt is 54-77 in the same timeframe.

 

[duckboy33]

What you aren't accounting for is that Dixon is the reason for that success. What did Pitt do before him and what have they done since? Since he has been at TCU he won the NIT first year, took them to their first NCAAT in 20 years the 2nd, and went to the NIT semis last year. He is 84-57 since he has been at TCU. Meanwhile, Pitt is 54-77 in the same timeframe.

Pitt made a bad hire after Dixon but that's not really relevant. What's relevant is where the program was when Dixon decided to leave. They were a regular in the NCAAT and a contender in the Big East and then the ACC.

Now success for Dixon is going to the NIT and making the NCAAT once every 5 years. Like I said, clear downgrade. He got paid though.

 

[Kevin Bryan]

What's relevant is where the program was when Dixon decided to leave. They were a regular in the NCAAT and a contender in the Big East and then the ACC.

No shit, because of Dixon, as I just stated. Now they'll just continue to sink back to irrelevance under Capel.

 

[duckboy33]

No shit, because of Dixon, as I just stated.

Right but he hasn't done that at TCU. Why is that? Is Dixon a worse coach now? Of course not, Pitt has a higher ceiling than TCU because it's a better program.

 

[Kevin Bryan]

Right but he hasn't done that at TCU. Why is that? Is Dixon a worse coach now? Of course not, Pitt has a higher ceiling than TCU because it's a better program.

He has been at TCU for 4 years, not quite a great sample size. If Pitt has a higher ceiling because they are a better program why do they have a much worse record than TCU since Dixon left? What advantages exactly do you think Pitt has that gives them a higher ceiling? Because coaching staff is at least 80% of it. Is it that amazing prestige? Fan base? Facilities? The awesome Pittsburgh weather?

 

[duckboy33]

He has been at TCU for 4 years, not quite a great sample size. If Pitt has a higher ceiling because they are a better program why do they have a much worse record than TCU since Dixon left? What advantages exactly do you think Pitt has that gives them a higher ceiling? Because coaching staff is at least 80% of it.

Pitt made a bad coaching hire and that set them back for sure. Pitt isn't a blue blood so they need to find a good coach to have success. Dixon was a great coach and replacing him will be hard. Capel might be the right guy but I'm not totally convinced about him either. But Pitt's bad decisions aren't really the point.

How long does Dixon need at TCU before we look at his record? In Dixon's first 4 years at Pitt, he won the Big East and went to the sweet 16 twice. Granted, it was a better situation but that's kind of my point. 4 years in, the roster is all Dixon guys. And I think he's done a good job. This is what doing a good job at TCU looks like.

Pitt has a higher ceiling than TCU. It's a big public school in the premier conference in America. Furthermore, they've had a lot of success in the last 20 years despite a few down year. TCU is a small private school who had never had sustained success, even as a mid major. Now they've been put in the Big 12 largely because of their football success. With a great coach like Dixon, they can be decent. Go to the NIT, maybe once and a while make the tournament and be a quick exit.

 

[theetommyt]

Pitt hired this guy for 2 years, right after he was fired from Vanderbilt. Capel might be able to make them a tournament team, but the cupboard was completely bare when he took over. Pitt's roster was dog shit under Stallings.

 

[Kevin Bryan]

Pitt made a bad coaching hire and that set them back for sure. Pitt isn't a blue blood so they need to find a good coach to have success. Dixon was a great coach and replacing him will be hard. Capel might be the right guy but I'm not totally convinced about him either. But Pitt's bad decisions aren't really the point.

How long does Dixon need at TCU before we look at his record? In Dixon's first 4 years at Pitt, he won the Big East and went to the sweet 16 twice. Granted, it was a better situation but that's kind of my point. 4 years in, the roster is all Dixon guys. And I think he's done a good job. This is what doing a good job at TCU looks like.

Pitt has a higher ceiling than TCU. It's a big public school in the premier conference in America. Furthermore, they've had a lot of success in the last 20 years despite a few down year. TCU is a small private school who had never had sustained success, even as a mid major. Now they've been put in the Big 12 largely because of their football success. With a great coach like Dixon, they can be decent. Go to the NIT, maybe once and a while make the tournament and be a quick exit.

I guess as the saying goes, only time will tell! As far as small, private schools go that hasn't stopped programs like Duke, Villanova, Gonzaga, Creighton, Dayton, Baylor, Seton Hall, Butler, Xavier, etc. from being very successful programs. TCU has a larger student body than all but maybe one or two of those schools.

 

[Kevin Bryan]

Pitt hired this guy for 2 years, right after he was fired from Vanderbilt. Capel might be able to make them a tournament team, but the cupboard was completely bare when he took over. Pitt's roster was dog shit under Stallings.

It wasn't bare when Dixon left though. I think Stallings is a better coach than Capel, but they are both pretty bad. It's not easy to win 60% of your games in a 17 year span at a place like Vandy.

 

[duckboy33]

I guess as the saying goes, only time will tell! As far as small, private schools go that hasn't stopped programs like Duke, Villanova, Gonzaga, Creighton, Dayton, Baylor, Seton Hall, Butler, Xavier, etc. from being very successful programs. TCU has a larger student body than all but maybe one or two of those schools.

Time will tell but TCU doesn't have the basketball history that any of those schools do. They've never had sustained success in basketball. Furthermore, TCU's AD will always put football first, many of those other private schools don't even play FBS football.

 

[Kevin Bryan]

Time will tell but TCU doesn't have the basketball history that any of those schools do. They've never had sustained success in basketball. Furthermore, TCU's AD will always put football first, many of those other private schools don't even play FBS football.

History has to start somewhere, and it is almost always with a good coaching staff. Who had ever heard of Gonzaga before Mark Few, other than a few John Stockton highlights? My brother went to Xavier for his undergrad. He has a t-shirt that says, Xavier football - undefeated since 1973.... which is the last year they had a team.

 

[duckboy33]

History has to start somewhere, and it is almost always with a good coaching staff. Who had ever heard of Gonzaga before Mark Few, other than a few John Stockton highlights? My brother went to Xavier for his undergrad. He has a t-shirt that says, Xavier football - undefeated since 1973.... which is the last year they had a team.

Things could change but TCU will always prioritize football over basketball. Bringing in Dixon and giving him a huge contract helps but it’s an uphill battle

 

[Kevin Bryan]

Things could change but TCU will always prioritize football over basketball. Bringing in Dixon and giving him a huge contract helps but it’s an uphill battle

That is true, but most schools prioritize football over everything else. They know who their cash cow is, and it's not on the hardwood.

 

[duckboy33]

That is true, but most schools prioritize football over everything else. They know who their cash cow is, and it's not on the hardwood.

Agreed. Just pointing out the difference between TCU and schools like Gonzaga and Xavier. It’s easier to climb the ladder in hoops if you go all in and don’t play football. Baylor is the one school who’s managed to climb the ladder in both. What they’ve done is truly impressive

 

[SheriffBufordTJustice]

Dixon inherited a program from Ben Howland.

Ben Howland is actually who turned Pitt around.

Dixon might not be the guy who can get a program going.

 

[Kevin Bryan]

Dixon inherited a program from Ben Howland.

Ben Howland is actually who turned Pitt around.

Dixon might not be the guy who can get a program going.

Yeah, they were coming off a conference title and back to back Sweet 16s when Dixon took over, but he sustained that for 13 years. It's not like they were good for 2 years after he got there and then fizzled out.

 

[duckboy33]

Dixon inherited a program from Ben Howland.

Ben Howland is actually who turned Pitt around.

Dixon might not be the guy who can get a program going.

Dixon was a big part of Pitt's success while Howland was there. He certainly took over a program that was successful when he became HC but he was a big reason why they were successful. I've got a lot of respect for Dixon as a coach. TCU is just a tough spot right now.

 

[SheriffBufordTJustice]

It was a great hire for TCU. I just don't really understand why Dixon would take the job. It's not often you see coaches take a clear downgrade.

Your opinion isn't his.
You have your opinion about where schools are at and I have mine
Jamie Dixon has one totally different than both of ours.

 

[duckboy33]

Your opinion isn't his.
You have your opinion about where schools are at and I have mine
Jamie Dixon has one totally different than both of ours.

Well obviously. But I think when we look back on Dixon's career, we will see that going to TCU was a mistake. But of course, it's his decision. Money talks.

 

[SheriffBufordTJustice]

Dixon was a big part of Pitt's success while Howland was there. He certainly took over a program that was successful when he became HC but he was a big reason why they were successful. I've got a lot of respect for Dixon as a coach. TCU is just a tough spot right now.

I wouldn't fully say that. Howland is a great coach.
But Pitt was in a bad position.

Problem with Pitt is money. You need money to win. Pitt for whatever reason doesn't support their athletic programs.

 

[SheriffBufordTJustice]

Well obviously. But I think when we look back on Dixon's career, we will see that going to TCU was a mistake. But of course, it's his decision. Money talks.

I don't think you understand how competitive the Big 12 really is.
Dixon had them on the lip.

There still is a pretty good chance he has them as a tournament team pretty much every year.
Basketball isn't overnight unless you can recruit Top 40 players

 

[duckboy33]

I wouldn't fully say that. Howland is a great coach.
But Pitt was in a bad position.

Problem with Pitt is money. You need money to win. Pitt for whatever reason doesn't support their athletic programs.

I never said anything bad about Howland but high quality assistant coaches are underrated in college hoops and Howland had a great one in Dixon.

As for spending, Pitt spends a pretty normal amount on basketball in comparison to most power conference programs in college basketball. That's not their problem in basketball.

 

[duckboy33]

I don't think you understand how competitive the Big 12 really is.
Dixon had them on the lip.

There still is a pretty good chance he has them as a tournament team pretty much every year.
Basketball isn't overnight unless you can recruit Top 40 players

The Big 12 is competitive but Jamie Dixon coached in the old Big East and then the ACC. It's not the level of competition that's the problem, it's where TCU is as a program. Can he eventually get TCU to become an annual tournament team? We'll wait and see but he clearly hasn't done that yet

 

[SheriffBufordTJustice]

The Big 12 is competitive but Jamie Dixon coached in the old Big East and then the ACC. It's not the level of competition that's the problem, it's where TCU is as a program. Can he eventually get TCU to become an annual tournament team? We'll wait and see but he clearly hasn't done that yet

Big 12 is still tougher than both.
Mainly because of the lack of easy wins.
When Dixon started TCU was a bottom feeder. An Easy win. He has changed that already.

Regarding him taking the team to the next level.
You think basketball happens overnight.

Takes some time in most cases.

 

[duckboy33]

Big 12 is still tougher than both.
Mainly because of the lack of easy wins.
When Dixon started TCU was a bottom feeder. An Easy win. He has changed that already.

Regarding him going to the next level.
You think basketball happens overnight.

It takes 5+ years to build a program usually.

I don't think the Big 12 is tougher than both of those but I don't really want to argue about it. They are all tough conferences.

I understand that Dixon has turned TCU around from an easy win to a competitive team. The key is taking that next step. I'm not sure TCU has that in them as a program. I know they are throwing money at the basketball program to try to change that. I think a couple of NIT appearances and an NCAA appearance once every 5 years is what they are looking like. And I don't mean that as a put down, that's a big turn around from what Dixon inherited.

When Dana Altman took over a bad Oregon team, by year 3 the team was playing at the level he wanted. So the turn arounds can be quicker than 5+ years. The hill is a lot steeper for TCU, that's my point.

 

[SheriffBufordTJustice]

I don't think the Big 12 is tougher than both of those but I don't really want to argue about it. They are all tough conferences.

I understand that Dixon has turned TCU around from an easy win to a competitive team. The key is taking that next step. I'm not sure TCU has that in them as a program. I know they are throwing money at the basketball program to try to change that I think a couple of NIT appearances and an NCAA appearance once every 5 years is what they are looking like. And I don't mean that as a put down, that's a big turn around from what Dixon inherited.

When Dana Altman took over a bad Oregon team, by year 3 the team was playing at the level he wanted. So the turn arounds can be quicker than 5+ years. The hill is a lot steeper for TCU, that's my point.

Pac 12 is horrible.
Much easier to win games.

You have a competitive game in the Big 12 against everyone in the Big 12 pretty much every year.

Jamie Dixon probably could get any program to the tournament in 3 years in the PAC 12