Pac 12 basketball...
- Thread starter doogie503
- Start date
I mean you can't blame Arizona for what's happening right now. They haven't seen a good team since December
Year after year Sean Miller finds a way to piss away a lot of talent. I've said this all along, a outstanding recruiter but a very average coach.
I honestly don't know.
One thing I've pondered on over the past few days, after seeing Arizona's SOS, and the teams they've played, how legit were they really? Especially considering that their team rode on the backs of 2 players with no real coaching. Not taking anything away from Buffalo, but it seems like they were just overhyped and played in a shit conference.
Since the tourney expanded to 64 teams.....Arizona has lost in the first round 12 times. the only school that has lost more first round games is BYU with 13.
People said this kind of stuff about Kentucky for most of the last ten years and we never got boat raced by a school like Buffalo.
Sean Miller was the guy I really wanted after we fired The Drunk, at least until I realized Calipari was a serious option. I think we won that scenario.
We suck and are getting left in the dust money wise with Larry Scott f*cking up tv deals.
And our refs call way too many fouls. Many games are in the double bonus with 10+ minutes left. By the time we get to the tournament, all our players play like lesbians. Hence AZ vs Buffalo.
The travel arrangement is outdated (thursday, sat away games) and we have to listen to Bill Walton...
AZ is the only thing going for this conference and we just got embarrassed.
And our refs call way too many fouls. Many games are in the double bonus with 10+ minutes left. By the time we get to the tournament, all our players play like lesbians. Hence AZ vs Buffalo.
The travel arrangement is outdated (thursday, sat away games) and we have to listen to Bill Walton...
AZ is the only thing going for this conference and we just got embarrassed.
Room for improvement amirite
His recruiting is overrated and his coaching is (and I know you won't believe it, but I am far from a homer) underrated. He just hasn't built a well constructed team in like 3 years. He has gotten away from his bread and butter, and in all his years with top 5 classes, he's had one elite PG.
I am drinking my coffee right now.
UCLA lost to St. Bonaventure from New York.
Arizona State lost to Syracuse from New York.
Arizona lost to Buffalo from New York.
I just think that is an odd little coincidence.
This is the really crazy thing: it could be worse or just as bad next year.
The three teams that made it lose a ton; ASU (Justice, Evans and Holder), Arizona (whole team), UCLA (Goloman and Welsch).
UCLA isnt in a terrible spot as they get a few players back and have an good recruiting class but still.
USC was the last team out and they lose a bunch some ok recruits but nothing that makes you think they will replace McLaughlin and Metu.
Oregon gets some good recruits and should be fighting for a spot next year in the tournament but will probably lose Troy Brown.
I dont see them getting more than 2-3 teams in next year. I feel like they need the come to jesus moment the SEC had a few years back.
The three teams that made it lose a ton; ASU (Justice, Evans and Holder), Arizona (whole team), UCLA (Goloman and Welsch).
UCLA isnt in a terrible spot as they get a few players back and have an good recruiting class but still.
USC was the last team out and they lose a bunch some ok recruits but nothing that makes you think they will replace McLaughlin and Metu.
Oregon gets some good recruits and should be fighting for a spot next year in the tournament but will probably lose Troy Brown.
I dont see them getting more than 2-3 teams in next year. I feel like they need the come to jesus moment the SEC had a few years back.
Honest question, not flaming. Is he coaching really that good?
Watching last night, Arizona didn't look like they were even running plays out there. Just get the ball over half court and someone blindly shoot or drive, while rarely ever giving Ayton the ball. And they play terrible defense.
Yet they have one of the most amazing tourney runs of all time.
The tournament is weird.
Same goes for KU. So many bad losses, yet Danny and the Miracles were one of the most unlikely teams to ever win it all. Self's closest team to the final four, other than his two final four teams, was his very first team and the lowest seed he's had in the tourney.
So much luck is involved. Some people get more or less than their share.
Arizona was a good team. How good? Not sure, but I'll say this. Buffalo was not your typical 13 seed. Buffalo was a good team. They had athleticism that you usually don't see on those lower seeded teams(other than SFA). On top of that, they got really hot shooting the ball. I mean, they were literally banking in 3s. Sometimes luck goes against you, and that happened with Arizona in a bad way.
It was a jokePeople said this kind of stuff about Kentucky for most of the last ten years and we never got boat raced by a school like Buffalo.
Unthinkably bad for a power conference. Is this collateral damage of the impossible to find Pac 12 network? Was in Vegas last week where they air literally every single sporting event under the sun and the Pac 12 network was not carried by the sportsbook I was at. So in the sports gambling capital of the US, in the middle of PAC territory, they were not airing the Pac 12 conference tournament games. Thats a big problem.
They've definitely stunk it up lately. Oregon's 2017 FF appearance was the only Final Four for the Pac-12 in the last decade. Pretty sure Oregon/Arizona are the only teams to make an Elite 8 in the last 10 years.. Pac-12 won just one game in 2012. Outside of Arizona (and occasionally UCLA/Oregon), they've really struggled to win NCAAT games.
But it is really hard to predict the next season, especially when most P5 Schools have a 50% turnover. Oregon and Washington will both be in the NCAA Tournament. I'm 90-95% confident about that. Oregon has a lot of key cogs returning + the #2 recruiting class. Washington was a bubble team this year and everyone is returning... Arizona/UCLA/USC/ will be hard to project as they will rely on either talented freshmen or rising sophomores. Also, not sure who's transferring or going pro (Rawle Alkins, Allonzo Trier, Aaron Holiday, Bennie Boatwright).
I think Arizona State might be decent next year. Holder/Evans really struggled to shoot the ball in conference play (both under 38% from the floor). I think Remy Martin is going to thrive as the successor to Holder. I think he has superstar written all over him. Several others are returning + top 20 recruiting class + two solid transfers... One potential surprise might be Oregon State. They're probably a bubble team, best-case scenario. But with a lot of returning talent, I could see them on an upward trajectory.
Yea they are your typical 13 seed. They just got hot. They werent going to be any higher of a seed. They are a decent team that just played great against a team that didnt show up. That wasnt luck against Zona. They just played like trash. Actually before last night i think most people were saying that Zona wasnt your typical 4 seed.
When I said *To teams from New York*, it was meant as a continuation of your comment. "I wonder when the last time every single team from a power conference lost in the first round of the tournament."....*To teams from New York*. I was having a little fun. I was just pointing out that the 3 Pac-12 Teams were (0-3) vs. Teams from the State of New York in this NCAA Tournament. Now, I need MORE COFFEE!
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It was hard to see last night, so I get that its not a flame at all. His big shortcomings are his rigidity and ability to properly build a team to fit his style. We have had one good PG despite all his great classes. We had a PG last night who should have come off the bench on a legit contender, but he started, couldnt handle their pressure, and made our offense look terrible. Our only other option was Trier, and he is just not smart enough to run point.
Our second best team was in 2011 (2014 had unreal talent and was a charge call away from the FF) and that was one his least talented teams. However, that team had toughness, quickness and defensive ability. A team like that showed how good of a coach he can be. Pretty much every team since that team has strayed away from that formula for some odd reason, and Miller has looked worse and worse. Of course, thats also on him, but isnt representative of his coaching. His recruiting is great on paper, but honestly for what it ends up being, its quite bad.
The team you saw last night had an elite C, no high-major caliber wings, a C better suited for Europe than college ball, and a backup PG starting, with two SG who are sub par defenders. If you would have told Miller at Xavier that he would put that team out on the court, he would have said no way.
And honestly, I am really not a homer when it comes to this, but I think it requires a more in depth look.
