OT- death projections 60k
- Thread starter ThroughBlue
- Start date
This will be my last series of posts on it because as others have said it’s pointless. None of us are changing minds.
Not a single person has disagreed with you about the morality of killing a human being. This conversation all started about a discussion around the word “murder.” Murder is a human construct reserved for killing human beings with rights and liberties. You can’t “murder” a bird in the legal sense. You can’t “murder” a rabbit.
What my personal distinction has been is when something transitions from being a living thing to a living human being. You and I disagree on when that transition occurs. Which is fine. Lots of people disagree on when that transition occurs. Believe it or not I have an acquaintance who is super religious who believes masterbation is bad because it kills lots of tiny humans. I don’t get it. Whatever though.
The entire point of this back and forth is that there is near universal agreement on a 55 year old human in fact being a human. There is not universal agreement on when that human actually became a human.
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I’m not against killing someone. I’m not going to personally go take a knife and kill someone. But I’m not against assisted suicide, the death penalty, abortion, or self-defense.
Also, you keep saying that everyone acknowledges that “without intervention a life WILL come from a pregnancy.” I do not accept that statement because it is not accurate. There is not a 100% certainty that human life will result from a pregnancy.
It might not be called murder, but you most certainly can get in trouble with the law with killing a bird or rabbit.
Not so much self-righteous, just unable to view a nuanced distinction from another perspective. You’re a really really bright guy. Which is why it’s weird, because no one is expecting you to change your opinion, but at least be able to grasp the other perspectives.
Depends what bird, what time of year, the location of said killing, or even if you have a license.
Murder is premeditated. Abortion is premeditated. There are different stages of development, obviously. A 8 week old embryo can't survive outside of the womb. But neither can a newborn baby, if left to itself. They both have life. Generally speaking, the only way to stop it from fully living is to terminate it.
Nothing has universal appeal. There's an estimated 400,000 homicides worldwide each year. The perpetrators of those crime certainly saw justification for what you and I both call murder. So murder in itself doesn't even have universal agreement. To dismiss a discussion because it isn't universally accepted is to concede that there are no standards for morality.
If this was a discussion simply between two people, then yes, that argument would carry a lot more weight. But there are dozens of others who are still viewing the thread. I'm not speaking solely to you, but to everyone who views the thread.
You keep speaking of exceptions, like stillbirth and miscarriages. But people who suffered through the ordeal of a stillbirth or a miscarriage weren't trying to abort the baby. I'm speaking of those who intentionally tried to terminate the unborn child. No pregnant woman has thought, "Gee, I'm pregnant. I really don't want the baby - maybe I'll miscarry and won't have to worry about it." Of course not. The women takes action and does something to intentionally stop it from living. There is a HUGE difference between pregnancy complications - and a calculated decision to stop a beating heart.
I'm not necessarily expecting to change anyone's view on abortion. My aim was to show the inconsistency about lecturing others on protecting the vulnerable. If someone wants to remain pro-choice, fine. Just don't think it's consistent logic to criticize someone else who is concerned with their livelihood, their paycheck, their luxuries - if you're not also going to criticize the women who aborts a baby because she's not willing to forego luxuries. Women get abortions to avoid an inconvenience (again, I'm talking about the 99%). That is why some people want the business life, social life, and everything else to return. So if people refrain from lecturing others on breaking quarantine behavior, then I will also drop my discussion on abortion.
The premise of this entire thread is flawed, and the discussion is filled with rank speculation by people who have no real insight. In the spirit of considering all the pluses and minuses of various approaches, can we add "shitty armchair quarterbacking" to the minus side? TIA.
Edit: I see now that this thread devolved into yet another discussion on abortion, so let's add "people have more time to argue about abortion" as another minus. Thanks!
we all agree that the government shouldn’t be telling us what to do with our body? But some think it’s okay for the government to tell us to keep our body inside or we will be arrested? Wow
Seems a little hypocritical doesn’t it
Seems a little hypocritical doesn’t it
You’re talking about people who don’t know which bathroom to use here. They need some help
Who in the thread lectured others on breaking quarantine, who also wasn’t consistent on the stance about abortion?
Karl Anthony-Towns' mother has passed away from the coronavirus. As someone who knows what its like to lose your mother to illness at 25, I hope those that pray will say one for him and his family today. He is going through a hell that he will never really recover from.
I don't like my best internet buddies going at it.
Dukedevils and GE Nole are fantastic posters. They are both smart and they are probably talking past each other.
Dukedevils and GE Nole are fantastic posters. They are both smart and they are probably talking past each other.
Man, she was sick for a long, long time it feels like. Or is time just going really, really slowly?
Well, for starters, he visited Jeffrey Epstein's pedo island on many occasions. After he had registered as a sex offender. Of course, now he denies that he even considered him a friend or business partner, despite talking about how charming and interesting he was in emails to employees. He also directed millions of dollars to MIT research at Epstein's request. Oh, and his chief adviser was in Epstein's will.
There's evidence that he was likely into the same effed up eugenics-based weirdness as Epstein and I'm sure that was the common bond.
But that's only the tip of the iceberg with Gates. LOL @ thinking that the world's second-richest person isn't a morally bankrupt piece of garbage.
I remember, he was one of the first people posting about it. Such a damn shame... she wasn't that old, was she? Anyone know if there were any underlying conditions, or was it just shitty luck?
Saying now that Indiana hasn't reached its peak, as projected----I was like, "great". Until they finished speaking....Went on to say, "Indiana was expected to reach its peak in mid-April....but now feel that is 2-3 weeks away". All the while, reporting some 500 more cases....
JFC>....
JFC>....
Crazy how random it is. A Navy sailor just died from it, was in great shape. Friend of mine’s father just recovered at 75 from it.
It all over the place, really. Just saw where a young, healthy young man from NY died from it.
Scary.
Sorry, my man. I probably worded that poorly. You're a great poster and I value your inputs. I wasn't specifically talking about you, but really anyone that insists on quarantining, but not overly concerned with abortion. Seemed like several posters were going after ThroughBlue in a previous page. I may have conflated some ideas incorrectly.
My stance on abortion is pretty consistent, however. I'm not ever for abortion. The only time I even think it's completely justified is if the mother's life is in jeopardy. But that's more about protecting life than it is about terminating another life. My dad had to sign a waiver before I was born as my mom's life was in jeopardy; they did what they could to save me, and it turned out okay. The general rule, at least for me, is do everything you can to preserve life until you've exhausted all opportunities. As for rape, again, I would never recommend it, as you're compounding one terrible act with another. I'm qualifying it by removing judgement, as the mother never should have been placed in that situation. Florida details the the reasons for all abortions in the state. Only 119 of the 70,239 abortions were the result of incest or rape. So, 99.83% of the cases were not related to abortion or incest. That's an extremely low percentage. Outliers don't suddenly make it okay for everyone else.
I agree with this. GE Nole was fairly succinct with his posts a couple of times. On at leas two separate occasions, I kind of wanted to ask a clarifying question before jumping right in - but, the lag time between one post to the next drags on too long. So I took an educated guess on what he meant, and I think I missed the mark a few times.
And my points seemed to be side-stepped as well. Why is abortion happening? 99% of the time it's because it's an inconvenience. People are more concerned about their life than someone else's. That is why others are tired of quarantine decorum. They want to retain the same lifestyle. So the conversation quickly devolved into an abortion debate, which wasn't my original contention. But, I enjoy the discussion nonetheless.
Apologies for high-jacking the thread for a couple days.
Agree with most---But I mean, rape seems to be a reasonable and rational reasoning....JMO. A lot of emotions in that case. Sure you can give the baby up for adoption. And that's a plausible argument. But then again, we are not the ones traumatized by the action of being raped. Mentally that hsa to be a struggle. Now, after that, we are asking a woman to give birth to a child that was conceived through a brutal act? Man I just dunno.
Right. So I'm not placing judgement on any woman that was raped and doesn't want to carry the baby to full term. Her freedom to choose was denied and there's certainly way more justification in her situation than just about anyone else. Just not sure I could encourage anyone to terminate it. It's a tricky situation altogether. Again, abortions due to rape are very, very rare. The link I provided showed that it only accounts for 0.17% of the abortions in Florida. Is ending a living entity immoral? That is the crux of the whole abortion argument.
Pregnancy due to rape is a tough portal, man.I am against abortion. Make no mistake. But thats tuff.
FWIW, I did challenge ThroughBlue early on to check if his stance was consistent. And it was. So I tipped my cap and said fair enough.
Unfortunately in our society, many of the abortions due to rape are not done in an approved clinic or documented as having occurred. Women who have been drugged and sex trafficked are given black market abortions, as are some girls who have been raped by their father/step-father. Sad situations.
youll never read this guy clamoring for more government.
I am just curious when everyone feels the baby has rights and when it’s not just considered a part of the woman’s body. That’s the million dollar question though
Here’s an interesting experiment. Search for "India polio cases Gates" on Google, and then search for the same on duckduckgo.com. One has nothing but articles of praise from Gates himself or his PR machine; the other has very different content.
To help derail this even further here are my views on abortion. They are archaic and come from an old man who is not very religious. Again, they are just my opinions.
Abortion means ending a potential human life. I will not ever be involved in one as I think it is murder. But it is not my responsibility to force my views on others. I will not vote for a politician who endorses wide open abortion.
The government should not make moral judgements nor should they allow mass murder. Abortion has been legal since 1973. I feel that it should not be made illegal, but I really believe that abortion should only be for the first few weeks or in special instances of the mother’s health, rape and incest.
Remember these are just my opinions and I own all the incongruences in my argument.
The potential life argument is interesting. To take that to the very extreme some versions of Caholicism outlaw restraint between a man and a wife for that very reason. Resisting the urge is basically some form of murder because you are killing a potential life. To avoid sex you have to petition the church.
This is far from where I am on this tbh. I just don't care about it politically, at least in terms of the President. I don't think it much matters for that office. All of these social issues just muddy up more important matters IMO. Regardless, I'm pretty much with you. Prohibition won't work at this point so want it to stay how it is for the most part but certainly not something I could ever do or encourage.
Seeing as Planned Parenthood was founded by a racist eugenecist, I’m betting the African American percentage is very high.
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