***Official 2020 B1G Off Season Thread***

Discussion in 'College Basketball Board' started by Kevin Bryan, Mar 16, 2020.

  1. CO_hawk

    CO_hawk Well-Known Member
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    Big 10s best chances for a title, since no one else can do it.
     
  2. gowolverines8

    gowolverines8 Well-Known Member
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    Yep and with Christopher that makes 4 NBA guys, and its not like michigan has no depth either. Theres actually really good depth. UMs going have the most high level nba type talent in the league next year. Maybe the pieces won't fit together but the talent will be there.
     
  3. jwardelt

    jwardelt Well-Known Member
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    Already done.

     
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  4. Gumbo02

    Gumbo02 Well-Known Member
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    It is close. The two Michigan teams are about equal in starting units. On a scale from 1-10, I would say Tillman is a 10, Henry is a 8 and Hauser and the three Michigan guys are all 9 (yes, I would take Wagner hands down over Henry at three).

    Sissoko and Dickinson are about equal. I would take Johns over Kithier or Bingham, but not by much. I think Marble has potential. TWill won't play much based on talent on the roster. Davis is good on offense in spurts. I think Castleton bolts.

    Both of the reserve frontcourts would be better than a few other Big Ten schools....
     
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  5. hailtoyourvictor

    hailtoyourvictor Well-Known Member
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    If we have all four of Christopher, Todd, Wager, Livers we will absolutely be better.

    Like.... I don't even find that debatable.

    The question is how many of those four will we actually have.
     
  6. CO_hawk

    CO_hawk Well-Known Member
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    OMG, puke. You had your chance and failed with the best team Wisconsin has ever had. You can't back into the title like ya'll did the Big10 championship.
     
  7. MileHighSpartan

    MileHighSpartan Well-Known Member
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    Traaaaash
     
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  8. theetommyt

    theetommyt Well-Known Member
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    I don't man, for that 10-30 group you might as well pick names out of a hat.
     
  9. klize17

    klize17 Well-Known Member
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    Like summer college party trash, sitting in the sun for a week kind of trash
     
  10. SpartanJD

    SpartanJD Well-Known Member
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    Are Iowa and Wisconsin legit top 10 teams next year to start the season?
     
  11. MGC_07

    MGC_07 Well-Known Member
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    Agree with most of this, but I’d take Henry over Wagner. Offensively they are similar, Henry is more athletic and Wagner is the better shooter. Wagner May have the slight edge on offense. But Henry is an elite defender. I’d take Henry

    Both could breakout and prove one of us wrong next year for sure though.
     
  12. buckymel

    buckymel Well-Known Member
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    Not sure if we're top 10 material, but a senior-laden Wisconsin team has always performed.

     
  13. MGC_07

    MGC_07 Well-Known Member
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    They’re the 15’ team without a NPOY

    Wisconsin posters would you describe this as accurate?
     
  14. hailtoyourvictor

    hailtoyourvictor Well-Known Member
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    Wagner put up better numbers in Big Ten play as an 18 year old true freshman than Aaron Henry did as a 20 year old sophomore.
     
  15. MileHighSpartan

    MileHighSpartan Well-Known Member
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    Wagner went on a tear to end the season (last ~7 games) on offense, but hard to argue against Henry's defense. He literally won us games with his defense towards the end of the season, guarding Cowan, Ayo, PSU's guards, etc.
     
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  16. MGC_07

    MGC_07 Well-Known Member
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    Better numbers? Wagner had 1 more point and 1 more rebound. Henry had 2 more assists and was far superior defensively while playing on a better team.
     
  17. buckymel

    buckymel Well-Known Member
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    FK3 aside, the other rotation players from 2015 are still more talented than next year's.

    Dekker, Hayes, Koenig, Jackson, Gasser, Showy, and Dukan
    vs
    Reuvers, Ford, Potter, Wahl, Davison, Trice, and Anderson.

    Obviously, we don't know what Carlson and J Davis and other recruits can do yet.
     
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  18. hailtoyourvictor

    hailtoyourvictor Well-Known Member
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    In conference play, Wagner averaged 13 and 6 as an 18 year old true freshmen in with a 108.9 offensive rating.

    In conference play, Aaron Henry averaged 9 and 5 as a 20 year old sophomore with a 94.9 offensive rating.


    Yes, better numbers.
     
  19. klize17

    klize17 Well-Known Member
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    What does "18 year old true freshman" and "20 year old sophomore" have to do with anything? What kind of point are you trying to make with that?
     
  20. MGC_07

    MGC_07 Well-Known Member
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    Henry was the 4th option offensively for us in conference play after Rocket came back from injury. He took less shots. As MileHigh pointed out, Henry won us games defensively. Henry also did this on a better team than Wagner played for.

    Gumbo’s point was the Wagner is better than Henry. Wagner was a 9 and Henry an 8. I disagree. They are similar level of players. If Wagners a 9 than Henry is too if you take into account all facets of the game.
     
  21. hailtoyourvictor

    hailtoyourvictor Well-Known Member
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    That Wagner is probably behind Henry in terms of the development curve. Freshman to sophomore jumps are usually bigger than than sophomore to junior jumps, no?
     
  22. klize17

    klize17 Well-Known Member
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    Honestly good question and I do not know how you would judge. Victor Oladipo had a sophomore to junior leap that turned him into a Top 5 draft pick.

    I would say the Junior to Senior leap is the least with Freshman to Sophomore and Sophomore to Junior being pretty even.
     
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  23. Gumbo02

    Gumbo02 Well-Known Member
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    Wisconsin is such a conundrum. I discard the non con numbers given Potter's absence. They get slightly better once Potter enters and then get a lot better once King leaves.

    One 'concern' I have with Wisconsin is while they return a ton, the upside won't be as much as other teams. Trice/Potter/Ford are all entering year five. Reuvers/Nutpuncher/Anderson entering year four. The recruits are ok, but no immediate impact (not like they are in dire need tho).

    Wisconsin is good enough to beat anyone in the country next year in a one game situation. I don't think they can run the gauntlet through four top 15 teams to win it all tho.
     
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  24. hailtoyourvictor

    hailtoyourvictor Well-Known Member
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    If he he was your 4th option then those efficiency numbers are really bad.

    4th options on good teams have the luxury of decrease usage / boosted efficiency. It's a reason why Glen Robinson III lead the conference in Big Ten offensive efficiency despite being our 3rd or 4th option in 2012/13.
     
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  25. buckymel

    buckymel Well-Known Member
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    I guess my realistic hope for us is S16.
     
  26. hailtoyourvictor

    hailtoyourvictor Well-Known Member
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    Okay well usually I see people saying freshman to sophomore jump with a big reason being body development and strength and conditioning. Age is a factor too because as a sophomore Aaron Henry was the age of most juniors. So he's going to be the age of players making the Junior to Senior leap.
     
  27. MGC_07

    MGC_07 Well-Known Member
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    I’m not sure Henry’s numbers will improve all that much. I assume he will be 4th option if Tillman comes back (Watts, Henry, Hauser) but he’ll still be an elite defender. I guess it’s whatever your team needs. Saying Wagner is definitively the better player though is false.
     
  28. Gumbo02

    Gumbo02 Well-Known Member
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    I would say the S16 is realistic while the hope is a F4 for Wisconsin...
     
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  29. hailtoyourvictor

    hailtoyourvictor Well-Known Member
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    Not sure he said that. He said he'd take Wagner hands down. It sounds like you'd take Henry hands down. Not sure that is either of you saying one is definitely better.
     
  30. MGC_07

    MGC_07 Well-Known Member
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    If you take someone hands down over someone else that means you think they are definitively better. Hence hands down. Same thing. I think Henry is slightly better but I agree Wagner has more potential and for certain teams they would take Wagner over Henry if you needed more floor spacing or scoring.

    I don’t think there is a big gap between the 2 at all.
     
  31. hailtoyourvictor

    hailtoyourvictor Well-Known Member
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    One thing to keep in mind about Wagner is that he moved from Germany to Michigan and didn't arrive on campus until August 27th. That's a pretty big adjustment for a kid. His brother only played about 5-10 mpg as a freshman averaging 2ppg. He really took off his sophomore and junior seasons. There's plenty of reason to believe Franz ends up better than Moe was.
     
  32. hailtoyourvictor

    hailtoyourvictor Well-Known Member
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    So your beef is that you taking Henry over Wagner is okay but him taking Wagner over Henry "hands down" is not okay. Whatever lol.
     
  33. jwardelt

    jwardelt Well-Known Member
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    No. I wouldn’t compare anyone to that team. We should be pretty good. Top 15-20 all year. Curious to see Potter play the entire year.
     
  34. MGC_07

    MGC_07 Well-Known Member
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    Agreed. He’s already better than Moe was as a Sophomore.
     
  35. jwardelt

    jwardelt Well-Known Member
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    GTFO.
     
  36. jwardelt

    jwardelt Well-Known Member
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    Spot on.
     
  37. MGC_07

    MGC_07 Well-Known Member
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    My beef is when he rated players he gave Henry an 8 and Wagner a 9. I’m saying they should be the same. You misconstrue constantly hail.
     
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  38. jwardelt

    jwardelt Well-Known Member
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    3 freshman will play next year. Carlson, Bowman, and Davis (the good one). Should have depth to 10 but I see the rotation tightening to 7-8 like usual.
     
  39. hailtoyourvictor

    hailtoyourvictor Well-Known Member
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    I don't think his rating of them for next year is that crazy. It wasn't a knock on Henry.
     
  40. MGC_07

    MGC_07 Well-Known Member
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    I don’t think it’s crazy I just disagree. Wagner is better offensively but Henry is an elite defender. I’d rate them about the same as players.
     

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