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Now that all their college careers are over... Who was the better college PG?

imajericho

imajericho

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I got banned on UK boards for answering this question as Joel Berry back right after their McDonalds HS AA game.

But, let's revisit it.

Who ended up being the better college PG?

Tyus Jones - Duke
Tyler Ulis - Kentucky
Joel Berry - UNC

Playing longer or shorter doesn't matter. Base it on however you view it based on their college careers.

For fun, you can add Devonte Graham from Kansas if you wish to or any other 2014 PG.

I think some others include. Jaquan Newton, Quentin Snider, Melo Trimble, Parker Jackson-Cartwright, Chris Chiozza.
 
How can you say playing longer or shorter doesn't matter? Tyus Jones played 1 season and won a title, Ulis played 2 and was part of one of the best teams in college history, Berry played 4 and went to back to back title games but ended up with the same amount of titles as Jones. You can't make the comparison without taking into account the length they played in college.
 
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Are we basing it off of team accomplishments or individual stats? If individual, give me Ulis then Jones.
 
tw3301 said:
How can you say playing longer or shorter doesn't matter? Tyus Jones played 1 season and won a title, Ulis played 2 and was part of one of the best teams in college history, Berry played 4 and went to back to back title games but ended up with the same amount of titles as Jones. You can't make the comparison without taking into account the length they played in college.
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I am saying not to say Joel Berry obviously just because he played 4 years. Or to discount Tyus Jones because he was OAD.
 
imajericho said:
I am saying not to say Joel Berry obviously just because he played 4 years. Or to discount Tyus Jones because he was OAD.
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But it's hard, if not impossible, to make a decision unless we factor in time spent in college.
 
Give me Ulis for 4 years over either of the others.

Homer pick, sue me. Still take Ulis.
 
tw3301 said:
But it's hard, if not impossible, to make a decision unless we factor in time spent in college.
Click to expand...
I am saying to not say Joel Berry has to be the best because he has more points steals assists etc cuz he played longer. This is not rocket science.


Some stuff that may help you decide

Tyler Ulis

GP 72
11.3 PPG
2.4 TRBPG
5.3 APG
30.1 mpg
46% FG
37% 3P
85% FT
1.2 SPG
.1 BPG
1.5 TOPG

Played mostly as a 6th man in freshman year.
Won SEC player of the Year in 2nd year.
Consensus All-American in 2nd year.
Bob Cousy Award Winner 2nd year
SEC Defensive Player of the year 2nd year
SEC All-Freshman Team 2015
SEC Tournament MVP 2016

Team Results
65-10
1 SEC Reg Season Titles
2 SEC Tournament Titles
1 Shared??? SEC Reg Season Title (not sure if shared since AandM had tiebreaker)
1 NCAA Final Four
1 NCAA 2nd Round

Tyus Jones
39 GP
33.9 MPG
11.8 PPG
3.5 TRBPG
5.6 APG
42% FG
38% 3PT
89% FT
1.5 SPG
.1 BPG
1.9 TOPG

NCAA Champion in lone season
NCAA Final Four MOP
AP AA Honorable Mention
ACC All Freshman Team

Team Results
35-4
1 National Championship

Joel Berry
144 GP
27.6 MPG
12.7 PPG
2.8 TRBPG
3.1 APG
42% FG
37% 3P
83% FT
1.1 SPG
.2 BPG
1.5 TOPG

Played off bench in freshman year and suffered injuries for a lot of the year.
National Championship in 3rd year
NCAA Final Four MOP 2017
All NCAA Tournament team 2016 and 2017
Third Team AA (NABC) 2018
First Team all ACC 2017
Second Team all ACC 2018

Team results
118-37
1 National Championship
1 NCAA Runner Up
1 NCAA 2nd Round
1 NCAA Sweet Sixteen
1 ACC Tournament Titles
2 ACC Reg Season Titles
 
imajericho said:
I am saying to not say Joel Berry has to be the best because he has more points steals assists etc cuz he played longer. This is not rocket science.


Some stuff that may help you decide

Tyler Ulis

GP 72
11.3 PPG
2.4 TRBPG
5.3 APG
30.1 mpg
46% FG
37% 3P
85% FT
1.2 SPG
.1 BPG
1.5 TOPG

Played mostly as a 6th man in freshman year.
Won SEC player of the Year in 2nd year.
Consensus All-American in 2nd year.
Bob Cousy Award Winner 2nd year
SEC Defensive Player of the year 2nd year
SEC All-Freshman Team 2015
SEC Tournament MVP 2016

Team Results
65-10
1 SEC Reg Season Titles
2 SEC Tournament Titles
1 Shared??? SEC Reg Season Title (not sure if shared since AandM had tiebreaker)
1 NCAA Final Four
1 NCAA 2nd Round

Tyus Jones
39 GP
33.9 MPG
11.8 PPG
3.5 TRBPG
5.6 APG
42% FG
38% 3PT
89% FT
1.5 SPG
.1 BPG
1.9 TOPG

NCAA Champion in lone season
NCAA Final Four MOP
AP AA Honorable Mention
ACC All Freshman Team

Team Results
35-4
1 National Championship

Joel Berry
144 GP
27.6 MPG
12.7 PPG
2.8 TRBPG
3.1 APG
42% FG
37% 3P
83% FT
1.1 SPG
.2 BPG
1.5 TOPG

Played off bench in freshman year and suffered injuries for a lot of the year.
National Championship in 3rd year
NCAA Final Four MOP 2017
All NCAA Tournament team 2016 and 2017
Third Team AA (NABC) 2018
First Team all ACC 2017
Second Team all ACC 2018

Team results
118-37
1 National Championship
1 NCAA Runner Up
1 NCAA 2nd Round
1 NCAA Sweet Sixteen
1 ACC Tournament Titles
2 ACC Reg Season Titles
Click to expand...
Tyus Jones played 1 year, won a title, was final four MVP, and never lost to UNC. He wins over all others.
 
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Tyus Jones and it’s not even close...he’s probably the best backup PG in the NBA right now.

He might be the most clutch OAD ever.
 
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I think all 3 have strong cases.

It is easy to knock Ulis that his team didn't do much when he was the man despite his strong numbers and to pin a lot of his team results in his 1st year when he did not even start.

It is also easy to point out he has the best individual accolades.

It is easy to knock Jones that he was not the best player on his team, benefited from being a starter year 1 unlike Ulis and Berry, and that he does not have many of the individual accolades many of the others have.

It is also easy to point out he played only one year, and he could have done possibly a lot more in more years. That he was NCAA Final Four MOP as a freshman in addition to a national champion.

It is easy to knock Berry for his lack of play in his freshman year. Also, his low assist totals in comparison to the other two. As well as his final year performance in the NCAA when he was the unquestioned go to player on the roster.

It is also easy to point out that his insertion to the UNC starting lineup spurred back to back National Championship appearances, 2 ALL NCAA Tourney Teams, and 2 regular season ACC Titles.

It is really a tough decision.
 
If it’s a 4 year guarantee it’s Tyus Jones every time. What he did in one year was incredible. That guy was one of the most clutch players to wear a Duke uniform.
 
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I think Joel Berry was a little overrated, personally. He was a great college player, no doubt. He probably would have made just about every team in America better. However, I see him more as a combo guard than a point guard. He never averaged 4 assists in a single season, he was a higher volume shooter (14.6 field goal attempts a game in 2018), and he wasn't wildly efficient on his shooting. I know we're trying to look at the totality of careers, but when I look at individual seasons, Berry wouldn't even be in the running for the 3, in my opinion. Take a look at some of the point guards from the 2014 class and who contributed the most win shares in a single season (Berry is tied for 10th with Jordan McLaughlin):

Tyler Ulis, Kentucky, 7.1 (2016)
Jevon Carter, West Virginia, 7.0 (2018)
Emmett Naar, Saint Mary's, 6.8 (2016)
Devonte' Graham, Kansas, 6.7 (2018)
Tyus Jones, Duke, 6.5 (2015)
Keenan Evans, Texas Tech, 6.2 (2018)
Melo Trimble, Maryland, 6.1 (2015)
Jaylen Adams, St.Bonaventure, 5.6 (2017)
Josh Perkins, Gonzaga, 5.4 (2018) - one year of eligiblity left
Jordan McLaughlin, Southern Cal, 5.3 (2018)
Joel Berry, UNC, 5.3 (2016)
 
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This reminds me of the hot take from our village idiot about how Man Bun was the top recruit in his class. Really paid off this year for UVA when it mattered. Anyway, tag Mgk or whatever his name is and you’ll get some support.
 
dukedevilz said:
I think Joel Berry was a little overrated, personally. He was a great college player, no doubt. He probably would have made just about every team in America better. However, I see him more as a combo guard than a point guard. He never averaged 4 assists in a single season, he was a higher volume shooter (14.6 field goal attempts a game in 2018), and he wasn't wildly efficient on his shooting. I know we're trying to look at the totality of careers, but when I look at individual seasons, Berry wouldn't even be in the running for the 3, in my opinion. Take a look at some of the point guards from the 2014 class and who contributed the most win shares in a single season (Berry is tied for 10th with Jordan McLaughlin):

Tyler Ulis, Kentucky, 7.1 (2016)
Jevon Carter, West Virginia, 7.0 (2018)
Emmett Naar, Saint Mary's, 6.8 (2016)
Devonte' Graham, Kansas, 6.7 (2018)
Tyus Jones, Duke, 6.5 (2015)
Keenan Evans, Texas Tech, 6.2 (2018)
Melo Trimble, Maryland, 6.1 (2015)
Jaylen Adams, St.Bonaventure, 5.6 (2017)
Josh Perkins, Gonzaga, 5.4 (2018) - one year of eligiblity left
Jordan McLaughlin, Southern Cal, 5.3 (2018)
Joel Berry, UNC, 5.3 (2016)
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That's an interesting viewpoint.

I actually thought Berry was one of our more selfish PGs we had. Very often even on fast breaks you knew he was taking the ball himself instead of making the easy pass to the wide open player.

It worked a lot but also cost us points a lot also.

He always seemed to make the 3 we needed as a Sophmore when we needed it. Especially when we were 3 point challenged as a team.

I do not think he is not close to the other 2. I think he has a compelling argument. I would probably say Tyus Jones with a gun to my head at this very moment. I would say Ulis but his second year teams accomplishment seems pretty paltry to me. He didn't seem to really boost that team much when it became his show.

I have to probably go Tyus by a hair over Berry and Ulis.
 
I love Ulis. LOVE him.

Hard to vote against Tyus for me, personally. Best freshman PG I’ve seen at Duke, tied for most clutch player ever with Laettner. Wasn’t the highest scorer or anything, but Christ, I’ve never seen anything quite like him.
 
Frank Mason left off that list I see, would have been a simple pick

If i'd have to choose from your list it would be Tyler Ulis, Kentucky
 
Berry read on like a third grade level he wouldn’t have even been able to play anywhere else
 
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