Non Political Post + Thread

Discussion in 'College Basketball Board' started by Mgkcbb, Jun 4, 2017.

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  1. Mgkcbb

    Mgkcbb Well-Known Member
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    Don't bring politics ITT. Just making an observation.


    I was at work when I heard about the London attacks.


    I gave my friend a 20 to 1 bet that it was someone doing it in the honor of Islam. He wouldn't even take it. He wouldn't even bet $5 to win $100 because he was so sure this attack had to be someone rep ping the "religion of peace."

    No political thoughts just wanted to share.
     
  2. ThereIsNoPlace

    ThereIsNoPlace Well-Known Member
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    Pole position
    [​IMG]
     
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  3. toonces11

    toonces11 Well-Known Member
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    Specific religion aside----how do human beings actually rationalize doing this type of cowardice.
     
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  4. ThereIsNoPlace

    ThereIsNoPlace Well-Known Member
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    A mix of manipulation(radical islam) & mental illness(nothing to live for.)
     
  5. I am stupid

    I am stupid Well-Known Member
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  6. hailtoyourvictor

    hailtoyourvictor Well-Known Member
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  7. VandyCrush

    VandyCrush Well-Known Member
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    Think it's bad now can't wait to see what Europe looks like in 30 years.

    Both parties have their own hypocrisy. The lefts hypocrisy is with the treatment of Islam. You will really be able to tell who is a true liberal or who is just in it to support disadvantaged minority groups based on how they approach the subject.

    One area I'm glad to be an American about. We won't have to deal with this flood of immigrants from war torn nations and then act shocked when our own nation becomes war torn
     
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  8. LetsGoDuke301

    LetsGoDuke301 Well-Known Member
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    It was nice to hear the PM say that she is committed to ending radical Islam. It's time for all leaders commit to this.

    It's a sad day when people have to worry about being killed because of radical religious beliefs.
     
  9. USMC Cat

    USMC Cat Well-Known Member
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    Nothing will change, though.

    Its one thing to say the correct thing, its much harder to do it.

    Plus, election is coming up. Oldest trick in the book for votes: get tough on a foreign enemy.
     
  10. TheDude1

    TheDude1 Well-Known Member
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    Well yeah, obviously everyone has a good idea what it is going to be about. At this point if there is a larger attack, you know it is nutjob Muslim terrorists named something like Arib Al-Sharat who did it. That's what the world is, right now. You can do that with a lot, though... like, if there is a school shooting, you know it is a white male. There are just trends we all know.
     
  11. LetsGoDuke301

    LetsGoDuke301 Well-Known Member
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  12. LetsGoDuke301

    LetsGoDuke301 Well-Known Member
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    Very true.
     
  13. TheDude1

    TheDude1 Well-Known Member
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    So the occasional instance notwithstanding, as I said... if there is a school shooting, you basically know it is a white male. Same with this. Remember the guy who ran people over in Times Square a few weeks back? Everyone expected it to be some nutty terrorists; turns out it was some crazy Latino guy. And yet, if someone plows a bunch of people down with a car, its a good bet its a crazy Muslim.

    There are trends in our world. Most people know them.
     
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  14. LetsGoDuke301

    LetsGoDuke301 Well-Known Member
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    You're right.
     
  15. brooky03

    brooky03 Well-Known Member
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    What's the point OP is making, though? That radical Islamic terrorists are jerks? We all know that. Or is this a comment on the religion as a whole? Because there's no denying most muslims are chill and have no interest in killing any infidels... or anybody, for that matter.
     
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  16. TheDude1

    TheDude1 Well-Known Member
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    That crazy Muslims are the best bet for public attacks on civilians in modern nations, and the OP knew it just like... well, everyone?

    And yeah, most Muslims are just regular people, same as most of ANY group of billions. Hopefully everyone understands that.
     
  17. toonces11

    toonces11 Well-Known Member
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    Im guessing his point is that it is so common now you can almost safely assume you know the reasoning behind an attack. I do think it lends a hand to the dangerous risks to accepting immigrants from these areas during this strange and weird era of unprovoked attacks on innocent people in the name of religion.

    It has little to do with a specific religion, even though the commonality is muslim. These people are less than human and have somehow confused their cowardly ways with honoring some bastardized form of their regions religion. I think its time a lot of religious leaders get together and update their teachings so idiots today can actually understand what is and is not acceptable instead of teaching via stone age metaphors that are obviously being wildly misinterpreted
     
  18. LetsGoDuke301

    LetsGoDuke301 Well-Known Member
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    It's the radical Muslims that need to be dealt with. Not the religion as a whole. But some won't even acknowledge that.
     
  19. AFSTALLION13

    AFSTALLION13 Well-Known Member
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    The time is coming that whoever kills you will think that he offers God a service....
     
  20. TheDude1

    TheDude1 Well-Known Member
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    Uh, that time has been going on for thousands of years. Everyone who is religious thinks they are doing God's work. Soldiers have been praying to Montu and Ares and Thor and God and Allah forever.

    I am glad we are not Europe, for sure... the Atlantic, and the requirement for air travel, offers us certain protection that cannot be replicated in any way. At the same time, having a free society makes us vulnerable.

    My neighbor is an FBI agent who is incredibly involved in this stuff. He said there were two big issues. First is our society; that there are people they suspect are planning bad things, people they follow and listen to, but they cannot do anything to them until they actually DO it. But how do you handle this if you value our Constitution?

    Second, and this was somewhat surprising at first, but then not... he said the vast majority of people who do these things are just dumb. He said that saves us a LOT. After I thought about it, I figured that makes sense... I would suspect that people who are willing to die in an attack or something, who are so brainwashed, might indeed be a bit dumber than most.
     
  21. toonces11

    toonces11 Well-Known Member
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    Really weak minded and dumb....the thing is, these types of attacks are impossible to stop. It takes almost zero brain power to pull off some of these things and if they don't place any value on their own life----then good luck stopping that. Just have to step up our game on avoiding letting these idiots into our country.
     
  22. TheDude1

    TheDude1 Well-Known Member
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    It will never be stopped. Never has been, never will be.

    And it isn't really all about letting people in our country. In Europe that is an issue, what with such open borders and with the close proximity to North Africa and the Middle East, but in the US we tend to have it worse, in some ways... a lot of ours are domestics who are radicalized from afar. It is VERY difficult to catch these people (who are sometimes American citizens to boot) before they do something without violating our Constitution... and my guess is that a number of people would say that if we start to violate our Constitution then you are starting to lose a greater battle of some kind.

    It is a problem that will never be solved; you just need to minimize the damage. To paraphrase the mayor of London, this sort of thing is just part of the deal with living in a free society.
     
  23. toonces11

    toonces11 Well-Known Member
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    Sometimes grave actions need grave consequences----might be time to step up the punishment game for anyone involved in the carrying out of a crime like this. The only possible way to "help" combat atrocious crimes----is an atrocious penalty for whomever is left in the aftermath.

    And it has a lot to do with who you let in imo....it isn't infallible but it sure goes a long way to help protect.
     
  24. TheDude1

    TheDude1 Well-Known Member
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    So, shooting in Orlando... first guess at culprit?

    I am guessing workplace dispute and crazy person. Possible that it is something else, of course.

    First guesses?
     
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  25. AFSTALLION13

    AFSTALLION13 Well-Known Member
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    The most commonly quoted verse by muslims when addressing jihad and its place in Islam and the quran is "Whoever kills an innocent person, it is as though he has killed all of mankind." (quran 5:32) If this is the most commonly quoted verse by muslims to non-muslims then it logically follows that they perceive this as their best proof against killing from the quran.

    Notice 2 remarkable things: 1) None of the muslims quote the entire verse. 2) None of the muslims quote the verse after it. Why do they leave most of it out? Why don't they ever quote the verse that comes after it? It's because if you read the passage without leaving something out, you will immediately see that it actually commands the sorts of attacks we witnessed in London.

    Let's read chapter 5 verse 32 and see what our "peaceful" muslims omitted.
    "On that account: We ordained for the Children of Israel that if any one slew a person -unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people. Then although there came to them Our apostles with clear signs, yet, even after that, many of them continued to commit excesses in the land."
    We know exactly where this verse comes from because it was popular in Arabia with Jews during Muhammad's time. It comes from the Jewish Talmud. It's ironic that the most peaceful verse in the quran happens to be from the Jewish Talmud.

    So we read what allah declares for Jews. Now what did allah declare for muslims? The answer is found in the very next verse.
    "The punishment of those who wage war against God and His Apostle, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter." (5:33)

    A muslim is commanded to kill you if you do mischief in muslim lands. So what counts as mischief? Lots of things. Apostasy, preaching anything other than islam, adultery, becoming too westernized, violate sharia,. By opposing sharia you declare war on allah and must pay. The most extreme form of mischief of course is launching a military attack on muslim communities. That's definitely a death penalty.

    Now according to islamic teachings, not according to your opinions but according to islamic teachings, has the UK made any mischief in the lands of muslim countries? Yes. According to 5:33 of the quran what is the penalty for the English military for what was done in muslim lands? Death. What about the English civilians? Muhammad said "people who equip soldiers receive the same". So who pays the English military? The government. Who funds the government? Its civilians.

    Now think about this. 5:33 of the quran justifies not only killing the English military but also any that support it in any way. This justifies the terrorists attacks in London. Instead of quoting verse 33, western apologists go to the verse before it and cut out this being a teaching from the Talmud about the Children of Israel. They then edit it by stripping it of its context and proceed to tell us islam is a religion of peace and tolerance and that anyone who does exactly as commanded in the next verse isn't a true muslim.

    So what does this deception accomplish? It's great for Westernized muslims that don't bother reading the texts that their religion condemns terrorist attacks and it's great for non-muslims that don't bother reading the texts that islam condemns terrorist attacks. Twisting a verse until it actually means the opposite of what it actually says will never change the minds of those that read the text and are willing to do what it says.

    The only thing this accomplishes is to pacify us until the next terrorist attack which is inevitable because we never confront the actual ideology that have been driving these attacks for almost 1400 years. What can we do to stop the deception and misdirection and finally have an open and honest discussion about Muhammad's teachings? Carefully study the muslim sources and when presented an opportunity online or in person correct those that are misquoting verses such as 5:32 and 5:33 until they stop misquoting it.

    The sooner we get past the misquoting the sooner our muslim friends can have an accurate picture of islam so they can finally decide if the quran is a book worth following.
     
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  26. TheDude1

    TheDude1 Well-Known Member
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    AFAIK, penalties rarely have a deterrent effect. would think it especially won't matter when you are talking about criminals who are willing to die for their cause, you know?

    https://nij.gov/five-things/pages/deterrence.aspx

    My guess is that the best way to combat this is more vigilant policing of our online world and more data collection and analysis (which will really upset some on the left and the right), more stringent rules and investigation into people coming into the country, continuing aggressive work with Muslim communities in the US to root out dissidents (including within the religious leadership), and maybe more funding/manpower for mental health services with a particular eye towards the types most likely to do this.

    But as I think we all know, it will never be stopped. Thankfully the chance of being killed by a terrorist is still really, really, really, really, REALLY low. Like, "much more likely to be killed by falling plane parts" low. We all need to be sure to balance our fears and responses with reality, and make sure we address those things that are killing Americans in larger numbers first.

    [​IMG]
     
  27. USMC Cat

    USMC Cat Well-Known Member
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    You should ask him how much ****ing evidence you need to keep tabs on someone.

    Cause I'm pretty sure a 12-year old would have told you the Pulse Nightclub shooter was a radical Islamic terrorist.

    Same thing with the Manchester bomber. 'We just weren't sure.' Really? Ok well he's said plenty of shit on social media already, he JUST returned from Libya and Syria, and his dad was in an Islamic militia.

    'I don't know... still on the fence about this guy.'

    OK, well the Imam of his mosque told on his radical ass TWO ****ING YEARS AGO.

    'Yeah but that could...'

    And actually, a member of the community called a terrorist suspect hotline FIVE ****ING YEARS AGO.

    The best part? It wasn't just ONE community member... FIVE DIFFERENT PEOPLE CALLED ABOUT HIM.

    Not trying to tell others how to do their jobs or anything, but they (the intelligence agencies) really ****ing suck. Good enough for government work, though, amirite?
     
  28. brooky03

    brooky03 Well-Known Member
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    None of this changes the fact that it is a peaceful religion and the overwhelming majority of followers are peaceful. Strict (extremist) interpretations of the Bible have been responsible for as much death, or more, in this world as similarly strict (extremist) interpretations of other holy books, like the Quran. People make the words in the book fit their agendas.
     
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  29. USMC Cat

    USMC Cat Well-Known Member
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    In the United States, a 2011 survey found that 86% of Muslims say such tactics are rarely or never justified.

    In a few countries, a quarter or more of Muslims say these acts of violence are at least sometimes justified, including 40% in the Palestinian territories, 39% in Afghanistan, 29% in Egypt and 26% in Bangladesh.


    According to Pew, only 86% of Muslims IN AMERICA say suicide bombings are rarely or never justified.

    That leaves 14% who seem to be cool with it.
     
  30. brooky03

    brooky03 Well-Known Member
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    Yeah, some people say things sometimes.
     
  31. USMC Cat

    USMC Cat Well-Known Member
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    Anyone seen the movie 'War Machine' on Netflix, with Brad Pitt?

    Kinda funny (military humor), but it talks a lot about Helmand (where I was), and its based on
    Operation Moshtarak (when I was there).

    I dunno; watched it last night, and it was fairly entertaining. 6.5/10.
     
  32. JimboBBN

    JimboBBN Well-Known Member
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    Oh come on. Let's not go back hundreds of years to make a point. When's the last time you heard about a group of Christians or Jews blowing people up or planning attacks? Doesn't happen. Yes, we all agree there are good and peaceful Muslims. But I'm also not going to act like its a normal thing for this many people of any religion to commit mass murder.
     
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  33. AFSTALLION13

    AFSTALLION13 Well-Known Member
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    If every Christian followed Jesus's example the world would be a better place. If every muslim followed Muhammad's example, according to modern law they would have to be jailed.

    Christianity says: "Be Christ-like." Christ laid down his life for others. Islam says: "Be Muhammad-like." Muhammad slaughtered unbelievers.

    One of the most common things that is said is, "not all Muslims are terrorists, and there are also violent Christians". The fact is that no Christian is perfect but Jesus was perfect. Not every Muslim is a terrorist, but Muhammed was a terrorist.

    Those who enter eternity without having trusted in Christ for salvation will understand just how effectively God has dealt with the problem of evil.
     
  34. USMC Cat

    USMC Cat Well-Known Member
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    And raped little girls.

    And killed anyone who refused to convert.
     
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  35. brooky03

    brooky03 Well-Known Member
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    The timing of the attacks is irrelevant. The Bible hasn't changed much since the atrocities carried out in the name of Christianity. The same book (more or less) that caused a lot of pain, suffering, and death in the world back in the day is considered a peaceful book nowadays. The book didn't change (much), the interpretations did. The IRA's shenanigans more recently are evidence that some nutjobs will still twist religion to suit their needs. Islam has a problem right now, in that the minority of asshats who think it's a good idea to kill people have too much power right now. They also have too many crazy people, who aren't even religious, claiming Islam when they go do crazy person things. That said, these extremists are still a relatively tiny portion of the Muslim population. They don't speak for the entire religion, just like crusaders and inquisitors didn't speak for all or most Christians.
     
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  36. TheDude1

    TheDude1 Well-Known Member
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    First, my neighbor is a damn good guy, and seems to know his shit. Don't be an asshole, especially since YOU were doing government work... what, were you only "good enough for government work?"

    It isn't about keeping tabs, numbnuts. It's about the Constitution of the United States of America. We cannot throw people in prison for saying bad stuff. He gave me an example (that he said he was changing pretty deliberately)... there is a fellow they are watching who works in "public transportation." The guy takes a backpack to work. How do you know if the backpack has his lunch in it, and how do you know if it has a bomb in it? Well, according to the law, there is no real way to check.

    FFS... didn't you recite the enlistment oath when you signed up? You know... that whole I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic" thing?

    Yeah, but to be fair... if other people took over the United States like we took over Palestine, and gave it to some foreign group of people to run, and those people set up checkpoints and grabbed our young men off the street and forced us into daily work commutes of three and four hours, with soldiers going through our stuff, and their armor was rolling through our streets, and they were making our nation into a non-Christian nation... you think 14% of Americans wouldn't be cool with suicide bombing to defend Christianity? Come on now.

    Wait wait wait. Dude, when I was young the IRA (who were Catholics) were killing Protestants in the streets of North Ireland, bombing and shooting and the like. And while I hate to admit it, what with half my family being Jewish, Israeli Jews have been pretty tough on the Palestinians, frequently grabbing them up off the streets and torturing them and the like.

    Yes, visually it's been mostly Muslims for the last few decades, and like many religions Muslims have had some really bad times through history, which isn't all helped by the religion itself, which was built to withstand an already-more-powerful Jewish and Christian people. But part of it is a "smaller, less powerful group fights in the only way they know how vs a larger, more powerful group" thing.

    BTW, from the FBI... 1980-2005, only 6% of terror attacks in the US were crazy Muslims.

    https://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publications/terrorism-2002-2005#terror_05sum

    Make sure you know the facts.
     
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  37. brooky03

    brooky03 Well-Known Member
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    I get that you think what you're saying is a true thing but that doesn't make it so. You think you are arguing facts because you cited scripture when you're actually arguing opinion.

    I'm leaving this thread now before I get too deep in the weeds. The only thing worse to discuss than politics is religion and this thread is probably going to end up a mashup of the two. No thanks!

    Peace.
     
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  38. JimboBBN

    JimboBBN Well-Known Member
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    Timing is relevant. Christians and other religions have obviously caught up with the times, I.E. It's not okay to just kill anyone who disagrees with you. When will Islam catch up?
     
  39. brooky03

    brooky03 Well-Known Member
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    Probably soon
     
  40. tw3301

    tw3301 Well-Known Member
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    ehhhh maybe. I mean most muslims aren't strapping a suicide vest on to kill infidels or anything but most muslims treat women as second class (being very generous here) citizens and if you think christians are tough on gays... look out daddio. I'm not a huge fan of organized religion but Islam needs a makeover needs to be brought into the 18th century at some point.
     
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