Westbrook. Jokic lead his team to the second seed in the west. Westbrook could never. He’s extremely inefficient and is a stat padder. Him and PG13 combined could only get to the 6 seed.
NBA Rosters - Thoughts?
- Thread starter Ipartiedwithhopgood
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Westbrook has averaged a triple double.
Let's be real here.
Jokic wasn't the only one on that team.
Gets way too much credit. Great player. Best big in the game but the position isn't what it was one.
To make this claim that Denver will be elite because of Jokic is a huge reach.
I don't even think they were near elite last year. The brackets gave them a break.
50-55 win team but Utah has much more upside
Well, KD isn’t even playing this year and might never be the same again. So he’s one.
AD is hurt at least 10-15 games a year and doesn’t make those around him better. Jokic has accomplished more in two years than AD has. So there’s two.
And Lillard just isn’t a top 10 player. He’s a 16-20 type player. Just not good enough from 3 and not a good enough defender to make up for it.
And besides those 3, I said “10-15” which is exactly what you asked originally. 10-15.
You’re confusing. You literally just said they were elite in the regular season. And your very first post listed the seeds in the regular season.
Luka Doncic is a better basketball player than Jokic.
Nothing wrong with Jokic. I really like his game but he will never have an impact on the game at an elite level.
You talk shit about Lillard but Lillard beat him and the Nuggets in that playoff series.
I think you are giving way too much credit to him for Denver's success.
Nothing wrong with Jokic. I really like his game but he will never have an impact on the game at an elite level.
You talk shit about Lillard but Lillard beat him and the Nuggets in that playoff series.
I think you are giving way too much credit to him for Denver's success.
Dude, my lord. I put them 6th in the division, standing by it. It is what it is, not saying they won’t be good. I just think there are 5 better teams with the roster shake up this upcoming season. I know I don’t post in these threads often, but I watch NBA just as much if not more than collegiate basketball.
This seemed like a weird landing spot for D Rose but he is a weird dude so maybe not.
I think it's wait and see on Denver and Jokic. It is possible they grow off last year's first real playoff advancement - or what we've seen could be their ceiling. Tough call.
What is crazy about that list vs. Jokic, is that Jokic is younger than all of them (he's 23), and he averaged more assists last year than all but 3 of them. And more rebounds than all but a few of them. Maybe he's not Top-10 right now, but he's right on the cusp and only getting better IMO. 5+ years younger than everyone in your Top-10 list, besides Giannis, AD, and Kawhi.
Top-10 in rebounds and assists, as a Center. 5th in PER. 7th in Offensive Win Shares, 9th in Defensive Win Shares, 6th in Total Win Shares, 6th in Win Shares per 48min, 3rd in Box +/-. There aren't many advanced stats where he isn't Top-10.
I expect the Nuggets to be pretty good this year. Last year, starting SG Gary Harris missed like 30 games with injuries. Backup SG Will Barton missed a bunch of games. Paul Milsap missed a bunch of games. Jamal Murray missed some games. Hopefully they can stay healthy this year
I worry about Jokic's weight and his ability to stay healthy.
Very good player and looks to be getting better. With another elite season could end up being a Top 10 player.
In regards to ceiling. I am much higher on Doncic. This isn't taking anything away from Jokic but I don't see him becoming a player who plays at an elite level for the next 10 years.
Very good player and looks to be getting better. With another elite season could end up being a Top 10 player.
In regards to ceiling. I am much higher on Doncic. This isn't taking anything away from Jokic but I don't see him becoming a player who plays at an elite level for the next 10 years.
I'll be honest, I don't follow the NBA a whole lot. I'm one of those weird people that's more invested in watching Buffalo play on the CBS Sports Network - or Saint Mary's on ESPNU.
But, tell me this. Who was the last NBA center to average 20, 10, and 7? Has that ever happened? Or who was even the last NBA center to average 7 assists? Of the 10 players listed, I would definitely take him over Lillard or Westbrook.
But, tell me this. Who was the last NBA center to average 20, 10, and 7? Has that ever happened? Or who was even the last NBA center to average 7 assists? Of the 10 players listed, I would definitely take him over Lillard or Westbrook.
He certainly fills up a stat sheet. Just not sure he can take control of a game and lead his team like other names on the list. His effective fg% has been around 47% the last 3 years - and close to 5 turnovers a game. Not sure all the turnovers and bad shots compensate for everything else he does. He was 35th in the league in Player Efficiency Rating. Which is still good, but it's not where you want your superstar to be.
Player efficiency rating is somewhat of a fake stat IMO.
You know what is not a fake stat? The fact that Westbrook has only won 4 total playoff games in his last 16 chances (last 3 years, all first round flame outs).
I'm not a Westbrook hater, but triple doubles don't mean shit if you haven't won a playoff series since 2016 (esp since he had Durant on that team).
To hell with the NBA. Rockets GM tweets out to stand with Hong Kong and China complains. Silver reprimands him over it, over standing up for democracy. Meanwhile they are happy to broadcast from China this week, a communist dictatorship, but pulled their all star game from Charlotte over a transgender bathroom bill. Either you give a **** about human rights, or you don't. What a bunch of bullshit liberal hypocrisy. **** the NBA.
If this is the type of stuff restricting your viewership, I think the NBA is heading in the right direction in terms of fandom. This is the most snowflakey post I’ve seen in a while.
Westbrook for sure, possibly Lillard as well. Definitely KD for this year.
Yet you point to stat stuffing triple doubles as something to lean on???
LOL, you sound like a bigger hypocrite than Adam Silver today.
Westbrook sucks, he's barely a top 20 player anymore. Fraud stat stuffer who goes on vacation in April every year.
Player efficiency rating is a made up stat to determine what player impacts the game at a higher level
It uses the raw data of points, rebounds and assist.
Regarding Westbrook and his ability to carry a team in the playoffs.
Very few PGs have that ability.
Where Jokic has the advantage is because he is a big but Jokic's ability to dominate games is very overrated early in his career.
Some of you are giving him way too much credit for the Nuggets success.
Westbrook is a Top 10 player because of how he can impact the game from the Backcourt.
Very few guards can.
Oscar Robertson wasn't winning championships but Oscar Robertson is a Top 50 NBA player historically. When he won it was because of Kareem.
Westbrook's numbers so far only compare to him.
https://www.cbssports.com/nba/news/...-zion-williamson-only-rookie-to-make-the-cut/
CBS sports came out with their list yesterday and they agree with me. Westbrook #19 like I said, barely a top 20 player anymore.
And of course Jokic is top 10.
Did you read the write up.
I think people are expecting Westbrook to carry a team in the playoffs. I don't think any PGs can do that by themselves in the West.
Maybe in the East when it was weak.
Throughout Russell Westbrook's 11 years in Oklahoma City, watching him meant feeling the tension between what he wants to do and what he should do if the goal is to optimize his efficiency. Now, on a team defined by its total devotion to optimization, something has to give. We could see the best version of Westbrook, a synthesis of his aggressive style and the Rockets' pragmatism, in which case this ranking will look silly. We could also see a mess that vindicates those who have questioned this experiment, in which case putting him in the top 20 will seem wildly optimistic. -- James Herbert
I think people are expecting Westbrook to carry a team in the playoffs. I don't think any PGs can do that by themselves in the West.
Maybe in the East when it was weak.
Throughout Russell Westbrook's 11 years in Oklahoma City, watching him meant feeling the tension between what he wants to do and what he should do if the goal is to optimize his efficiency. Now, on a team defined by its total devotion to optimization, something has to give. We could see the best version of Westbrook, a synthesis of his aggressive style and the Rockets' pragmatism, in which case this ranking will look silly. We could also see a mess that vindicates those who have questioned this experiment, in which case putting him in the top 20 will seem wildly optimistic. -- James Herbert
The continued under rating of the nuggets and Jokic in general is amazing. For their youth they had an all time season last year despite being one of the most injured teams in the league. They return their top 9 guys and add Jerami grant and Michael porter. 1-15 it’s pretty easily the most talented roster in the league. Superstars do win in playoffs and Jokic is the nuggets only one but with the depth of talent the nuggets have thru are going be a regular season beast. Also if Beal hits the block, the nuggets are the likely favorite with all the pieces and flexibility they have.
Utah is a much better team.
If you look at who out of that division could be a legit threat it is Utah not Denver.
The love affair with Jokic is basically because they were able to walk into a conference semifinals.
Even then Portland had too much for them.
If you look at who out of that division could be a legit threat it is Utah not Denver.
The love affair with Jokic is basically because they were able to walk into a conference semifinals.
Even then Portland had too much for them.
The love affair with Jokic has to do with how good he is. His statistics, new school and old school are historic for a player his age.
You keep bringing this up. They went to game 7 and Dame hit a crazy game winner. Didn't Utah get swept in the first round?
They was how the brackets unfolded.
It was lopsided.
I think any of the 4 teams on the top could have beaten Portland in a 7 game series or at least taken it to 7 games.
This love affair with Jokic is based on the playoffs it seems.
Utah added Conley and Bodganvic, Jeff Green, and Mudiay. Much more formidable squad this year as opposed to last. Takes a lot of pressure of Mitchell.
What does seeding have to do with anything.
You really think Denver would have done better against Houston than Utah.
You said any of the top 4 could have done it. I’m just saying Denver was top 4...so they did what you said.
And yes, Denver would have absolutely beat Utah.
I said the 4 teams on top of the bracket.
GS
LA Clippers
Houston
Utah
Those were clearly the best 4 teams to end the season.
It was like the winners bracket and losers bracket and Denver wasn't even good enough to get through the losers bracket.
Utah is a much better team and even better this year.
This opinion that players carry teams in the NBA playoffs by themselves is ridiculous.
Especially at the guard position.
These players are absolutely rare.
Everything I have heard about Jokic revolves around the NBA playoffs.
Great player and is on the verge of becoming elite but he needs to do this every year.
Plus Doncic was 19 last year and putting up numbers I don't think I have ever seen for a 19 year old.
I am not including Doncic yet. I do think he will eventually be labeled an elite player and Top 10.
If you ask me who I would rather have.
I would say Doncic.
Even though Jokic is a center and very few centers can run the offense like Jokic.
Especially at the guard position.
These players are absolutely rare.
Everything I have heard about Jokic revolves around the NBA playoffs.
Great player and is on the verge of becoming elite but he needs to do this every year.
Plus Doncic was 19 last year and putting up numbers I don't think I have ever seen for a 19 year old.
I am not including Doncic yet. I do think he will eventually be labeled an elite player and Top 10.
If you ask me who I would rather have.
I would say Doncic.
Even though Jokic is a center and very few centers can run the offense like Jokic.
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