***NBA Playoffs: Finals Thread***

[WeAreDePaul]

Lebron wearing a cast to the presser is the only thing I'm gonna remember about his 2018 playoffs.

He's a fraud and a clown.

 

[dtgold88]

Even if I concede that Love is a better fit next to LeBron, specifically, than Harden is (but I would dispute this), Harden is such a better fit for the modern NBA than Love is (and is a such a better player than Love is) that it doesn't matter to the end analysis. And the WCF confirmed that redundant playmakers are key to attacking switching defenses (Boston, GSW, Houston and others are switch heavy). Imagine LeBron able to rest more on offense. And I like Love more than probably most (but he is a terrible matchup against the GSW).

"None of this is to say the Cavs FO is spectacular." Agreed. Here's the thing, though: Houston's FO is spectacular. There's plenty of articles about Houston's shrewd roster/cap moves over the last 8 or so years, particularly how they continually acquire valuable assets despite never bottoming out. One little nugget to consider: on the best version of the Cavs (which I would argue was last year, and a title worthy team in most years), the best 3 players were acquired by: 1) LeBron being from the area and drafted by the Cavs #1 overall in 2004 ("I'm coming home"); 2) Irving was #1 overall pick; and 3) Love was traded for 2x #1 picks. It's like a lucky version of The Process - all #1 pick related! Houston's best 3 on their best version (this year) were acquired by: 1) trade assets acquired as a ~42 win team; 2) trade assets acquired as a ~55 win team; and 3) draft /develop 25th pick (Capela). Griffin was pretty solid (did great work getting trade exceptions and was continually shrewd with the cap), but he's gone and Morey is on another level in any event. And Comic Sans owner churns through GMs like Larry King went through wives; his best attribute is his pocketbook.

I don't think Riley is all that; we're in agreement there. He was hamstrung a bit more than Cleveland: traded a lot of future picks for LeBron and Bosh sign and trades (which would have been nice trade assets); had a completely gutted roster (i.e. no Kyrie or Wiggins); Mike Miller couldn't stay healthy (although they signed him for too many years to begin with). But Riley kept signing crappy veterans (all except Ray for a year, Battier until he broke down, and Chris Anderson for half a season). And since LeBron's left he traded 2 firsts (I believe unprotected) for Goran "12th best PG in the NBA at best" Dragic, continually overpaid middling to slightly above middling guys like Whiteside, James Johnson, Tyler Johnson, Dion Waiters, etc... and refused Boston's offer of all the #1 picks for Justice Winslow (Ainge is both lucky and good). (let us also never forgive or forget that Riley almost ruined the NBA with his Knicks and Heat rugby teams; screw Riley)

Finally, yes, LeBron/Cleveland was hampered by GSW adding a top 3 NBA player to a 73-win team. People like to compare it to The Decision, but they're not even remotely close. The Decision was the template, but The Hardest Road was a thermonuclear bomb exploding on the league.

Agree with everything you said really. Only disagreement, is can't only look at what a player does in a matchup with GS...especially in the EC. Love has helped a ton the last couple years in series with Toronto and Boston (who were often undersized teams). Of course, would not bet against the cavs against those teams with Harden as opposed to Love.

Not the best matchup against GS, but the guy was pretty much a 20-10 guy in this series, and he outplayed Green last year who most seem to love. Needed to make more % of 3s but other than Lebron the least of their troubles.

Kind of hard to judge the Cavs current GM as he hasn't even had one year on the job. Didn't like the Kyrie deal, but who knows what else was offered and seems they were better off making a deal than not as likely Kyrie was still hurt if they held onto him.

Infused some youth and life into the team with the midseason roster shakeup and went as far without Kyrie as they did with...well, one game less.

I believe if they stayed together and added the 8th pick and had a full camp together if you told the Cavs win 60 or no playoffs they could win 60. could they beat GS as constructed? doubtful, but not sure anyone else can either. And hey, maybe we can finally get payback for 2015 and play them with a couple pieces missing

 

[dtgold88]

Lebron wearing a cast to the presser is the only thing I'm gonna remember about his 2018 playoffs.

He's a fraud and a clown.

wont be the only thing I remember, but he should be embarrassed.

Still hope he stays though.

 

[Big_Blue79]

Kind of hard to judge the Cavs current GM as he hasn't even had one year on the job. Didn't like the Kyrie deal, but who knows what else was offered and seems they were better off making a deal than not as likely Kyrie was still hurt if they held onto him.

Infused some youth and life into the team with the midseason roster shakeup and went as far without Kyrie as they did with...well, one game less.

The Kyrie trade was an okay return on the huge assumption that IT was cleared by team doctors (and Cleveland had an out! and still made the trade!). But it's 50/50 at best that you even trade Kyrie in that situation, and I'm not a Kyrie guy (he's marginal All-NBA when healthy). Yes, I know Kyrie was a dick and threatened surgery, but it seems that Cleveland shouldn't have put any value into IT. I didn't hate the trade at the time, but I made the assumption re: IT's health.

The midseason trades were okay except for the Lakers deal. Clarkson was a fringe rotation player on a good team but being paid like a starter, and Nance is a nice bench piece. The price for getting Nance should have just been taking on Clarkson (IT and Frye were expiring salary fodder), but Cleveland gave up a first. I thought that was a typo; surely the Lakers would be giving up a pick (or taking back bad non-expiring salary) for Clarkson's bad contract. Magic Johnson must be hella convincing.

 

[denniden]

The Kyrie trade was an okay return on the huge assumption that IT was cleared by team doctors (and Cleveland had an out! and still made the trade!). But it's 50/50 at best that you even trade Kyrie in that situation, and I'm not a Kyrie guy (he's marginal All-NBA when healthy). Yes, I know Kyrie was a dick and threatened surgery, but it seems that Cleveland shouldn't have put any value into IT. I didn't hate the trade at the time, but I made the assumption re: IT's health.

The midseason trades were okay except for the Lakers deal. Clarkson was a fringe rotation player on a good team but being paid like a starter, and Nance is a nice bench piece. The price for getting Nance should have just been taking on Clarkson (IT and Frye were expiring salary fodder), but Cleveland gave up a first. I thought that was a typo; surely the Lakers would be giving up a pick (or taking back bad non-expiring salary) for Clarkson's bad contract. Magic Johnson must be hella convincing.

Nance Jr played a very good part in Cleveland beating Boston. Frankly I thought he was the difference in a few games. Made huge plays in tight games that the Cavs won. George Hill was pretty good late in the Boston series as well. Those were solid moves IMO. Thought Hood would be better. They weren’t getting much with Crowder so I guess that trade wasn’t too bad. Pretty much agree with everything you posted.

 

[dtgold88]

The Kyrie trade was an okay return on the huge assumption that IT was cleared by team doctors (and Cleveland had an out! and still made the trade!). But it's 50/50 at best that you even trade Kyrie in that situation, and I'm not a Kyrie guy (he's marginal All-NBA when healthy). Yes, I know Kyrie was a dick and threatened surgery, but it seems that Cleveland shouldn't have put any value into IT. I didn't hate the trade at the time, but I made the assumption re: IT's health.

The midseason trades were okay except for the Lakers deal. Clarkson was a fringe rotation player on a good team but being paid like a starter, and Nance is a nice bench piece. The price for getting Nance should have just been taking on Clarkson (IT and Frye were expiring salary fodder), but Cleveland gave up a first. I thought that was a typo; surely the Lakers would be giving up a pick (or taking back bad non-expiring salary) for Clarkson's bad contract. Magic Johnson must be hella convincing.

all well and good, but my thought is after what happened with Lebron in 2010 Gilbert wanted to be prepared if he left. They wanted the pick more than anything in that deal. Probably hoped it'd be higher than 8, and would bet most assumed it would be.

Also possible they thought both Kyrie and IT were huge injury concerns heading into last season and turned out to be a wash. Maybe a slight edge to Kyrie, as he at least helped them earn home court in their matchup.

I didn't like giving up the pick, but no way we were getting the Lakers' pick (much higher) back. Would rather have it than not, but don't think much comes of Cavs' pick as far as who it is. Issue is tougher to move the 8 pick without having their own pick due to the Stepien Rule

 

[Big_Blue79]

Issue is tougher to move the 8 pick without having their own pick due to the Stepien Rule

Good catch. Also even a bad first is an asset, and the Cavs have a lot of contracts they would probably like to dump.