Local High School here in Indiana with security all schools should have.

IUfanBorden

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This is amazing.


https://www.wthr.com/article/southwestern-high-school-tests-state-of-the-art-security-measures

All teachers have panic buttons. When pushed, it sets off an alarm. Doors lock. There are call boxes in evert classroom, linked to the Sherrif's office. Windows on doors to classrooms aerr bullet proof. They have an area called a "hot spot". Cannons placed in the ceilings can be set off, by the police. to disorient a suspect. Police can track a suspect all through the school, via camera's.

Cost is $400, 000.

Amazing system.
 

Clive Gollings

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Damn, that's prettysad.

I guess if you needit, it's cool andall

Do you all ever think about living in a police state?

CCTV are all therage in Europe.
 
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IUfanBorden

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Damn, that's prettysad.

I guess if you needit, it's cool andall

Do you all ever think about living in a police state?
Ummm, what? What is sad about it? With today's society, I think it's a wonderful thing.

And lets hope they never do need it. Because if they do, then it means there is yet another school shooting.
 
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WojoRising

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A lot of city schools have police on most, of not every floor and metal detectors upon entry, manned by an officer.

That should probably just become normal.
 

speedfrk

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Ummm, what? What is sad about it? With today's society, I think it's a wonderful thing.

And lets hope they never do need it. Because if they do, then it means there is yet another school shooting.

I agree. As a parent of little kids it saddens my heart to hear them talk about the "bad person in the building" drills the school does regularly, but we have to adapt. These shootings are becoming more frequent.

I wish my kids school had this security.
 
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coryfly

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Yeah, that would be great but simply isn't feasible financially.

Really the bullet proof glass is the main thing I see that would make a difference over what precautions most schools already employ if we just had metal detectors. The key is simply keeping people out. As soon as a lock down is in place most of that other stuff already takes place.
 

TheDude1

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Teachers are making bank.

In terms of $/hours worked

laughter.gif
 

BStowers023

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Just have automatic locking doors, 4 Rottweilers from the pound, train them to kill, open the doggy gates when the intruder comes in. He's Rottweiler lunch.
 
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TheDude1

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Well it's better than trying to give us a gun.

The "arm the teachers" crowd is just a bit off, because they do not think of the big picture

There are maybe 5% of teachers I would trust with a gun in a situation like this. Basically... me. That's it. The rest A) have ZERO experience with guns, and B) are scared of them. We have teachers who cannot figure out new-fangled email, teachers who struggle with the copier when it is broken... and you want to give them guns? I ALREADY don't trust 80 percent of WILLING and PURPOSEFUL gun owners... definitely wouldn't trust a bunch of unwilling, inexperienced, and (sorry this is terrible to say!) generally either way young or way older women. Sorry, I know that is sexist, but...

But the most important thing is the sheer number of accidents and the like that would happen. All you need is one teacher to forget to lock their gun drawer or one teacher who takes their gun off their belt to go to the bathroom and forgets they did it or ANYTHING like that, and some curious 2nd grader or some impulsive idiot 10th grader will end up accidentally getting shot. Now imagine that with 50,000,000 kids in public schools. You'd have so many accidental shootings and suicides and, yes, even murders of convenience.

Won't even get into the fact that we are running out of PAPER in my school because we have no money, and we are now into our second year without a contract. You think school districts are suddenly going to find the time and money for proper training? Nope. They can't even get us training on essentials.

The system in the OP is a great idea. It is INCREDIBLY expensive, unfortunately, and might be out of reach for a lot of larger, lower-funded districts. I'd love to have it here, though.
 

SNU0821

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The "arm the teachers" crowd is just a bit off, because they do not think of the big picture

There are maybe 5% of teachers I would trust with a gun in a situation like this. Basically... me. That's it. The rest A) have ZERO experience with guns, and B) are scared of them. We have teachers who cannot figure out new-fangled email, teachers who struggle with the copier when it is broken... and you want to give them guns? I ALREADY don't trust 80 percent of WILLING and PURPOSEFUL gun owners... definitely wouldn't trust a bunch of unwilling, inexperienced, and (sorry this is terrible to say!) generally either way young or way older women. Sorry, I know that is sexist, but...

But the most important thing is the sheer number of accidents and the like that would happen. All you need is one teacher to forget to lock their gun drawer or one teacher who takes their gun off their belt to go to the bathroom and forgets they did it or ANYTHING like that, and some curious 2nd grader or some impulsive idiot 10th grader will end up accidentally getting shot. Now imagine that with 50,000,000 kids in public schools. You'd have so many accidental shootings and suicides and, yes, even murders of convenience.

Won't even get into the fact that we are running out of PAPER in my school because we have no money, and we are now into our second year without a contract. You think school districts are suddenly going to find the time and money for proper training? Nope. They can't even get us training on essentials.

The system in the OP is a great idea. It is INCREDIBLY expensive, unfortunately, and might be out of reach for a lot of larger, lower-funded districts. I'd love to have it here, though.
Jesus, the big picture? That's what you went with here in your nonsensical rambling? Again, here's your problem. People are "off" if they think arming teachers is a good idea? You don't agree with it, so others must be "off." Well I, for one, think that you're "off." You only trust yourself with a gun, because you're the most awesome guy of all time and can't do anything wrong and others are just dumb shits and can't possibly be as knowledgeable or skillful as you, amirite?

You clearly haven't listened to anyone who's actually thought this through and proposed this as a real alternative to security. All of the arguments for arming teachers has gone on to say that it would be voluntary, for starters. People would volunteer to be a designated concealed carry person. They would also go through on going training yearly. It's not like people are suggesting we give that 70 year old woman teacher a 12 guage and tell her good luck. It's a little more thought out and thorough than that. There has been talks of having a locked safe in the volunteers classroom with a gun inside. There's been talks of concealed carry. There has been tons of talk around this issue about proper training for those that volunteer.

It's completely clear that you saw a headline and made a judgement about it without any knowledge on the subject. But then again, you're probably one of those idiots who thinks banning assault weapons will end school shootings...
 

coryfly

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Makes no difference whether it is voluntary or not in terms of it being a bad idea. It would simply be a bad idea.
 
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SNU0821

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Makes no difference whether it is voluntary or not in terms of it being a bad idea. It would simply be a bad idea.
It's already happening at schools in our country. I don't disagree that it's not ideal, but is it better to just sit and wait for the first responders five plus minutes away? What about having old service members or police officers in schools? Something has to be done. Banning a certain type of firearm isn't going to stop anything.

Not attacking you in any way. Honestly, just trying to think of something that would actually make a difference. And since you're a teacher, you've got more insight than I do.
 

TheDude1

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Makes no difference whether it is voluntary or not in terms of it being a bad idea. It would simply be a bad idea.

Well, I think there is SOME difference. You REALLY don't want someone who is scared of guns or hates guns or completely inexperienced with guns or who is totally against the idea of guns in school being responsible for a gun in school. If you are going to arm teachers, I think you want people who are on board with the idea. As with anything, buy in is essential.

But yeah, it's generally a bad idea. For every mass shooting you'd stop, my guess is you'd have dozens of accidental shootings and shootings of convenience. I am not sure I know many teachers who support guns in school; I'm generally as close as it gets, as someone who is comfortable with guns and generally has responded well in high stress life-and-death situations, and even I think it's a bad idea based on pure numbers and personal experiences.
 
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Wojoman

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The "arm the teachers" crowd is just a bit off, because they do not think of the big picture

There are maybe 5% of teachers I would trust with a gun in a situation like this. Basically... me. That's it. The rest A) have ZERO experience with guns, and B) are scared of them. We have teachers who cannot figure out new-fangled email, teachers who struggle with the copier when it is broken... and you want to give them guns? I ALREADY don't trust 80 percent of WILLING and PURPOSEFUL gun owners... definitely wouldn't trust a bunch of unwilling, inexperienced, and (sorry this is terrible to say!) generally either way young or way older women. Sorry, I know that is sexist, but...

But the most important thing is the sheer number of accidents and the like that would happen. All you need is one teacher to forget to lock their gun drawer or one teacher who takes their gun off their belt to go to the bathroom and forgets they did it or ANYTHING like that, and some curious 2nd grader or some impulsive idiot 10th grader will end up accidentally getting shot. Now imagine that with 50,000,000 kids in public schools. You'd have so many accidental shootings and suicides and, yes, even murders of convenience.

Won't even get into the fact that we are running out of PAPER in my school because we have no money, and we are now into our second year without a contract. You think school districts are suddenly going to find the time and money for proper training? Nope. They can't even get us training on essentials.

The system in the OP is a great idea. It is INCREDIBLY expensive, unfortunately, and might be out of reach for a lot of larger, lower-funded districts. I'd love to have it here, though.
You dont give near enough credit to teachers. Which is weird since you seem to be one. My wife is a teacher and i know plenty of other teachers that i feel could be very proficient with a gun. They arent just young girls out of college or old on the edge of retirement women. That IS sexist and extremely stereotypical. And the teachers I know are both men and women from multiple different schools, who are VERY willing to have the responsibility of a gun and are experienced. Many of them have carry permits already. Its just kinda weird that people (mostly on the left, but not all) keep talking about what we must do to fix this problem. That we should not tolerate this and something MUST be done. But then when ideas are proposed, all we hear is, "no that wont work, that's a stupid idea, but something must be done". Someone says "Well how about putting more guards at schools?", and then we hear, "no that isn't good, i dont want my kids to feel like they are in a war zone, but something must be done, this should not be tolerated, we need ideas".....Well how about putting some lock boxes in class rooms and arming and training WILLING teachers to learn how to protect he kids?...."that's a stupid idea, i dont trust them, it will never work, but SOMETHING must be done"

Aside from stricter gun control or trying to take guns away all together, which is not feasible, i dont hear many ideas other than precautions that are already in place anyway in many schools.
 

TheDude1

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You dont give near enough credit to teachers. Which is weird since you seem to be one. My wife is a teacher and i know plenty of other teachers that i feel could be very proficient with a gun. They arent just young girls out of college or old on the edge of retirement women. That IS sexist and extremely stereotypical. And the teachers I know are both men and women from multiple different schools, who are VERY willing to have the responsibility of a gun and are experienced. Many of them have carry permits already. Its just kinda weird that people (mostly on the left, but not all) keep talking about what we must do to fix this problem. That we should not tolerate this and something MUST be done. But then when ideas are proposed, all we hear is, "no that wont work, that's a stupid idea, but something must be done". Someone says "Well how about putting more guards at schools?", and then we hear, "no that isn't good, i dont want my kids to feel like they are in a war zone, but something must be done, this should not be tolerated, we need ideas".....Well how about putting some lock boxes in class rooms and arming and training WILLING teachers to learn how to protect he kids?...."that's a stupid idea, i dont trust them, it will never work, but SOMETHING must be done"

Aside from stricter gun control or trying to take guns away all together, which is not feasible, i dont hear many ideas other than precautions that are already in place anyway in many schools.

Maybe I have a decent understanding exactly because I *AM* a teacher? I have a completely different experience than your wife. Not one teacher I know has a carry permit (you generally cannot get those in my area) and nearly none of them have any experience with guns. Trust me... if I tried to discuss going shooting this weekend, there is exactly one teacher I can discuss that with (and she is an unmitigated bad ass... sort of Sarah Conners-like.) And yeah... the majority of teachers I work with are women under 30 or over 55, and would be nervous around firearms. A bit sexist and/or stereotypical? Sure. But also a bit true.

It has nothing to do with teachers, honestly; it has to do with people, period. I don't trust the majority of people to be proficient and trained enough to respond properly in a life or death situation. Maybe I am wrong about that... I suppose I am a pessimist by nature.

And I don't get where you are getting this idea that people aren't proposing anything? There is PLENTY being proposed. Restrictions on gun availability, stricter background checks, mag size limits, extended wait times, limits on ammunition, more aggressive mental health evaluations that are tied to gun access, better funding for mental health services, tighter building security... there is a ton being proposed. Not all of it is feasible, a lot of it is expensive... but damn, we don't seem to be doing anything except literally the most obvious stuff. Banning bump stocks? We can't even get THAT done.

But yeah, adding more guns to the equation, especially in the hands of lightly--trained individuals... most people see that as a net negative, in terms of lives saved vs lives lost, and as someone who is familiar and competent with guns, who spends his life in schools, and spends a lot more time thinking about these things than most people... I agree. We see that in states with less gun control; the states with more gun deaths per capita are the states with less gun regulation. It's a pretty simple equation, even if solving it is NOT simple.

Anyway, whatever, this is really getting "political" even though no politics is being mentioned... we can wait till the off season to discuss; there will be plenty of school shootings then.
 
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coryfly

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It's already happening at schools in our country. I don't disagree that it's not ideal, but is it better to just sit and wait for the first responders five plus minutes away? What about having old service members or police officers in schools? Something has to be done. Banning a certain type of firearm isn't going to stop anything.

Not attacking you in any way. Honestly, just trying to think of something that would actually make a difference. And since you're a teacher, you've got more insight than I do.

I have no problem with guns in schools in terms of police officers or anything like that. I am head of security at our school so work with our SRO on the Safety team all the time. Absolutely am thrilled he is here and would love having 5 more officers here.

I only have an issue with teachers with guns being a solution. I think it would only add other issues into the equation.
 

SNU0821

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You dont give near enough credit to teachers. Which is weird since you seem to be one. My wife is a teacher and i know plenty of other teachers that i feel could be very proficient with a gun. They arent just young girls out of college or old on the edge of retirement women. That IS sexist and extremely stereotypical. And the teachers I know are both men and women from multiple different schools, who are VERY willing to have the responsibility of a gun and are experienced. Many of them have carry permits already. Its just kinda weird that people (mostly on the left, but not all) keep talking about what we must do to fix this problem. That we should not tolerate this and something MUST be done. But then when ideas are proposed, all we hear is, "no that wont work, that's a stupid idea, but something must be done". Someone says "Well how about putting more guards at schools?", and then we hear, "no that isn't good, i dont want my kids to feel like they are in a war zone, but something must be done, this should not be tolerated, we need ideas".....Well how about putting some lock boxes in class rooms and arming and training WILLING teachers to learn how to protect he kids?...."that's a stupid idea, i dont trust them, it will never work, but SOMETHING must be done"

Aside from stricter gun control or trying to take guns away all together, which is not feasible, i dont hear many ideas other than precautions that are already in place anyway in many schools.
Yup. Very well said.

The positive out of all of this (if you can even say there is a positive) is that it seems background checks are going to get tougher. Any gun owner, normal citizen, any person who wants a gun for sport/hunting/security/etc. and not for bad, shouldn't mind this. Also, hoping we can loop in mental health into the background checks. I think it's absolutely critical that we have social media incorporated into the background checks.

Banning assault weapons won't change a thing. How quickly people forget that the Virginia Tech shooter had two handguns.
 

SNU0821

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I have no problem with guns in schools in terms of police officers or anything like that. I am head of security at our school so work with our SRO on the Safety team all the time. Absolutely am thrilled he is here and would love having 5 more officers here.

I only have an issue with teachers with guns being a solution. I think it would only add other issues into the equation.
Thanks for the perspective. If you could have your way, how many SROs would you think is the appropriate number to have in a school? Clearly it depends on the size of the school, but a normal sized school in the country, what would your recommendation be?
 

TheDude1

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I have no problem with guns in schools in terms of police officers or anything like that. I am head of security at our school so work with our SRO on the Safety team all the time. Absolutely am thrilled he is here and would love having 5 more officers here.

I only have an issue with teachers with guns being a solution. I think it would only add other issues into the equation.

What sucks is that it becomes a money issue.

5 more officers is... what, another $400,000 a year? Maybe? Depends on salaries and benefits and everything. If you figure the average school has... what, a one tenth of one percent chance of experiencing a school shooting... are towns/cities ready to spend that money? And is that really the best and most efficient solution?

A mess with many, many factors, of which gun control is one, albeit an important one. Anyone who tries to boil it down to JUST guns or JUST mental health issues isn't really presenting a full picture.
 

coryfly

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You dont give near enough credit to teachers. Which is weird since you seem to be one. My wife is a teacher and i know plenty of other teachers that i feel could be very proficient with a gun. They arent just young girls out of college or old on the edge of retirement women. That IS sexist and extremely stereotypical. And the teachers I know are both men and women from multiple different schools, who are VERY willing to have the responsibility of a gun and are experienced. Many of them have carry permits already. Its just kinda weird that people (mostly on the left, but not all) keep talking about what we must do to fix this problem. That we should not tolerate this and something MUST be done. But then when ideas are proposed, all we hear is, "no that wont work, that's a stupid idea, but something must be done". Someone says "Well how about putting more guards at schools?", and then we hear, "no that isn't good, i dont want my kids to feel like they are in a war zone, but something must be done, this should not be tolerated, we need ideas".....Well how about putting some lock boxes in class rooms and arming and training WILLING teachers to learn how to protect he kids?...."that's a stupid idea, i dont trust them, it will never work, but SOMETHING must be done"

Aside from stricter gun control or trying to take guns away all together, which is not feasible, i dont hear many ideas other than precautions that are already in place anyway in many schools.

From adequate training to giving someone with an agenda an extra avenue to get a weapon to even a rash decision from a teacher or student now having another extra more devastating consequence there are just many reasons why teachers shouldn't be armed. Again, not arguing against people being armed but just teachers. I can't fathom anyone in a school not seeing the issue with this
 
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SNU0821

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But yeah, adding more guns to the equation, especially in the hands of lightly--trained individuals... most people see that as a net negative, in terms of lives saved vs lives lost, and as someone who is familiar and competent with guns, who spends his life in schools, and spends a lot more time thinking about these things than most people... I agree. We see that in states with less gun control; the states with more gun deaths per capita are the states with less gun regulation. It's a pretty simple equation, even if solving it is NOT simple.

Anyway, whatever, this is really getting "political" even though no politics is being mentioned... we can wait till the off season to discuss; there will be plenty of school shootings then.
California, Chicago, New York. Yeah. They must not have tough guns laws at all, huh?

The bold and underlined is absolutely disgusting.
 

coryfly

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Thanks for the perspective. If you could have your way, how many SROs would you think is the appropriate number to have in a school? Clearly it depends on the size of the school, but a normal sized school in the country, what would your recommendation be?

That's a good question. I don't know that I am rational enough regarding this issue (because they are kids) to put forth a reasonable answer. I would probably say way too many because I am not the one paying for it (though I guess in a way we all kind of are). Obviously resources and many other factors come into play. Our school has 1100 kids (elementary) and our SRO is outstanding and I think would handle a situation very well. He is also aware of many issues we don't think about when discussing these situations. With all the other precautions we have I think even just one more would make a huge difference as you would have a person always relatively close to any part of the school. I don't know though. Someone with more expertise in that area may say I'm dead wrong though.
 

SNU0821

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That's a good question. I don't know that I am rational enough regarding this issue (because they are kids) to put forth a reasonable answer. I would probably say way too many because I am not the one paying for it (though I guess in a way we all kind of are). Obviously resources and many other factors come into play. Our school has 1100 kids (elementary) and our SRO is outstanding and I think would handle a situation very well. He is also aware of many issues we don't think about when discussing these situations. With all the other precautions we have I think even just one more would make a huge difference as you would have a person always relatively close to any part of the school. I don't know though. Someone with more expertise in that area may say I'm dead wrong though.
Gotcha. Yeah, the money issue would be a hurdle, no doubt. My thoughts as a non teacher, is maybe one or two SROs for every entry point at a school? I guess the bottom line is one is better than none. I'm just hoping we get some sorting done.
 

TheDude1

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From adequate training to giving someone with an agenda an extra avenue to get a weapon to even a rash decision from a teacher or student now having another extra more devastating consequence there are just many reasons why teachers shouldn't be armed. Again, not arguing against people being armed but just teachers. I can't fathom anyone in a school not seeing the issue with this

This x1000. It may be good intentioned, but introducing more firearms to a place so full of irrational beings (kids) will lead to more deaths. We have 50,000,000 students in public schools; you may see a reduction in school massacres (or you may not? Maybe a reduction in total deaths in these massacres is more accurate?) but you would inevitably see a huge increase in overall firearm deaths, in terms of accidents, suicides, and purposeful murder. I don't see how that can be argued, statistically.
 

SNU0821

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This x1000. It may be good intentioned, but introducing more firearms to a place so full of irrational beings (kids) will lead to more deaths. We have 50,000,000 students in public schools; you may see a reduction in school massacres (or you may not? Maybe a reduction in total deaths in these massacres is more accurate?) but you would inevitably see a huge increase in overall firearm deaths, in terms of accidents, suicides, and purposeful murder. I don't see how that can be argued, statistically.
Care to provide any support for your position that adding more firearms into schools would lead “inevitably” to more overall firearms deaths in terms of suicides, accidental shootings and purposeful murders? I doubt it. More garbage from @TheDude1.
 

TheDude1

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BTW, for those who are interested... there are two different approaches to this.

There is the more common "lockdown" approach, where you try to deny targets to the shooter. That's what my district does, and what most districts in the north east do.

But there are also some places that encourage a more aggressive response, operating under the theory that a whole mass of kids can actually neutralize a shooter.

The theory is that if you have twenty kids throwing water bottles and books at a shooter who enters a room, and then they all charge the shooter, you WILL take the shooter out, even if you suffer some casualties.

We don't have that here, but I'd be morbidly curious to see if it is effective in an actual situation. I suppose it would take a LOT of training to make it work, but it sounds like a potential solution without creating too many issues... assuming, of course, that teaching 6 year olds to attack a guy with a gun isn't, by definition, an issue.
 

VAWildcat15

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The "arm the teachers" crowd is just a bit off, because they do not think of the big picture

There are maybe 5% of teachers I would trust with a gun in a situation like this. Basically... me. That's it. The rest A) have ZERO experience with guns, and B) are scared of them. We have teachers who cannot figure out new-fangled email, teachers who struggle with the copier when it is broken... and you want to give them guns? I ALREADY don't trust 80 percent of WILLING and PURPOSEFUL gun owners... definitely wouldn't trust a bunch of unwilling, inexperienced, and (sorry this is terrible to say!) generally either way young or way older women. Sorry, I know that is sexist, but...

But the most important thing is the sheer number of accidents and the like that would happen. All you need is one teacher to forget to lock their gun drawer or one teacher who takes their gun off their belt to go to the bathroom and forgets they did it or ANYTHING like that, and some curious 2nd grader or some impulsive idiot 10th grader will end up accidentally getting shot. Now imagine that with 50,000,000 kids in public schools. You'd have so many accidental shootings and suicides and, yes, even murders of convenience.

Won't even get into the fact that we are running out of PAPER in my school because we have no money, and we are now into our second year without a contract. You think school districts are suddenly going to find the time and money for proper training? Nope. They can't even get us training on essentials.

The system in the OP is a great idea. It is INCREDIBLY expensive, unfortunately, and might be out of reach for a lot of larger, lower-funded districts. I'd love to have it here, though.

Seriously, when you factor in the odds of a school shooting happening, combined with the fact that it would have to be at your school, combined with the fact that the teacher would have to be in or at least near one of the rooms being attacked, it becomes obvious just how impractical the idea of arming teachers is.

You're right, the far more likely outcome is that something would go wrong with the gun kept on site and a kid or adult who would otherwise be safe would be injured or killed.

And that's not even getting into the expense of a program like this... There would have to be county authorized training, even if it was voluntary. I'd rather that money be used to make sure I don't have to buy supplies with my own money, or feed low income families, or bump teacher salaries, or basically anything besides this.

The idea is well intentioned but doesn't hold up to any amount of scrutiny.

Jesus, the big picture? That's what you went with here in your nonsensical rambling? Again, here's your problem. People are "off" if they think arming teachers is a good idea? You don't agree with it, so others must be "off." Well I, for one, think that you're "off." You only trust yourself with a gun, because you're the most awesome guy of all time and can't do anything wrong and others are just dumb shits and can't possibly be as knowledgeable or skillful as you, amirite?

You clearly haven't listened to anyone who's actually thought this through and proposed this as a real alternative to security. All of the arguments for arming teachers has gone on to say that it would be voluntary, for starters. People would volunteer to be a designated concealed carry person. They would also go through on going training yearly. It's not like people are suggesting we give that 70 year old woman teacher a 12 guage and tell her good luck. It's a little more thought out and thorough than that. There has been talks of having a locked safe in the volunteers classroom with a gun inside. There's been talks of concealed carry. There has been tons of talk around this issue about proper training for those that volunteer.

It's completely clear that you saw a headline and made a judgement about it without any knowledge on the subject. But then again, you're probably one of those idiots who thinks banning assault weapons will end school shootings...

Read what I said above... I realize the "arm the teachers" thing is well intentioned but it just doesn't hold up to scrutiny. I know a lot of teachers, I work in one of the largest and most affluent school districts in the country, but I don't know a single teacher who would support arming classrooms.
 
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TheDude1

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Here is a piece from New York Magazine about ALICE, the program designed as an alternate to the "shelter in place" approach.

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2015/10/can-your-child-learn-to-defeat-a-school-shooter.html

BTW, we had a fire drill yesterday. I'll tell you what... a part of me was thinking about how to get the kids into cover at each step the entire way out. I'm that sort of person anyway, always looking at angles and considering how to evac an area, but damn, it was pretty close to the front of my mind yesterday:( Making sure your kids know how to about face is SO damned important.
 

Da_Bull

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Maybe I have a decent understanding exactly because I *AM* a teacher? I have a completely different experience than your wife. Not one teacher I know has a carry permit (you generally cannot get those in my area) and nearly none of them have any experience with guns. Trust me... if I tried to discuss going shooting this weekend, there is exactly one teacher I can discuss that with (and she is an unmitigated bad ass... sort of Sarah Conners-like.) And yeah... the majority of teachers I work with are women under 30 or over 55, and would be nervous around firearms. A bit sexist and/or stereotypical? Sure. But also a bit true.

It has nothing to do with teachers, honestly; it has to do with people, period. I don't trust the majority of people to be proficient and trained enough to respond properly in a life or death situation. Maybe I am wrong about that... I suppose I am a pessimist by nature.

And I don't get where you are getting this idea that people aren't proposing anything? There is PLENTY being proposed. Restrictions on gun availability, stricter background checks, mag size limits, extended wait times, limits on ammunition, more aggressive mental health evaluations that are tied to gun access, better funding for mental health services, tighter building security... there is a ton being proposed. Not all of it is feasible, a lot of it is expensive... but damn, we don't seem to be doing anything except literally the most obvious stuff. Banning bump stocks? We can't even get THAT done.

But yeah, adding more guns to the equation, especially in the hands of lightly--trained individuals... most people see that as a net negative, in terms of lives saved vs lives lost, and as someone who is familiar and competent with guns, who spends his life in schools, and spends a lot more time thinking about these things than most people... I agree. We see that in states with less gun control; the states with more gun deaths per capita are the states with less gun regulation. It's a pretty simple equation, even if solving it is NOT simple.

Anyway, whatever, this is really getting "political" even though no politics is being mentioned... we can wait till the off season to discuss; there will be plenty of school shootings then.


I think most agree that you don't put guns in lightly trained unfit individuals but @Wojoman was merely stating what you see in your day to day is different from others and shouldn't be considered as the norm.
 
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Da_Bull

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I've also been thinking about people stating "Our children shouldn't have to worry about shootings, and drills, etc" While i agree its sad, sucks, and wish this wasn't the case we have been coddled the last 100 years. Before that kids had to worry about working/finding food, basically surviving. Kids around the world still deal with that on a daily basis. The comfortable lifestyle we've all lived won't last forever. Even ours was different than our parents and grandparents. Our kids will be different than ours and much different than our parents. I'm in no way saying we don't do anything to fix it but things change and will continue to change.
 
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TheDude1

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I think most agree that you don't put guns in lightly trained unfit individuals but @Wojoman was merely stating what you see in your day to day is different from others and shouldn't be considered as the norm.

Sure; everyone's experience is only their personal experience. I have 15 years of experience as a teacher to draw from, as well as a lifetime around guns and shooting, as well as a personality that has always been very interested in both human nature and threat analysis. That's why I shared what I did. As always, I could be wrong. It does seem like all of the teachers chiming in here think it is a bad idea (small sample size, of course!) and I think that is important to note. I appreciate what Wojo posted; different schools, different people, different areas of the country... they all impact our views.

I've also been thinking about people stating "Our children shouldn't have to worry about shootings, and drills, etc" While i agree its sad, sucks, and wish this wasn't the case we have been coddled the last 100 years. Before that kids had to worry about working/finding food, basically surviving. Kids around the world still deal with that on a daily basis. The comfortable lifestyle we've all lived won't last forever. Even ours was different than our parents and grandparents. Our kids will be different than ours and much different than our parents. I'm in no way saying we don't do anything to fix it but things change and will continue to change.

Yeah, I think when people say that they mean "In an ideal world, our children..." Not literally. But it DOES suck that we have to train our children to survive this stuff... the fact that there is this underlying idea that they could be killed at any time... it sucks that that is out there now. As a dad, I hate that my cute little boy does lockdown drills. Just sucks.
 

dukedevilz

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Shortly after the Columbine Shootings, my school district implemented a policy where police officers/guards were present at all entry points with a metal detector. That went away after a couple months. I think it would be sensible to have this sort of control in place at every school. Maybe it won't solve every crisis, but it would certainly be a significant deterrent.
 

829305

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Not sure where to start. I teach in an urban high school. We have 4-5 SROs on duty everyday. I feel none the safer. They aren’t the most competent bunch which is I’m sure what they’d be like most places, if we started placing them at every school in America.

And what’s this about teaching the kids to rush the shooter? Lol. Admit it, you just made that shit up @TheDude1.

If kids want to shoot up schools, it will happen. We can take step to make schools safer, but if they wanna come guns blazing, there isn’t much we can do about it. Arming teachers is just stupid, not even worth commenting on.