JVD's Top Programs

della

Well-Known Member
Gold Member
Dec 11, 2001
41,264
21,502
113
Team
Tennessee
I made a thing. It's pretty worthless, but here you go.
7 categories. Each weighted differently. Max score possible is 20.
25% NC's
20% FF's
15% each Winning %, Conf Champs
10% Total wins & Tourney appearances
5% Final AP poll

1. Kentucky (17.5)
2. UCLA (16.9)
3. North Carolina (16.1)
4. Kansas (15.3)
5. Duke (13.7)
6. Indiana (10.8)
7. Louisville (10.7)
8. Connecticut (9.5)
9. Villanova (9.4)
10. Ohio State (9.2)
11. Michigan State (9.1)
12. Cincinnati (8.9)
13. Syracuse (8.4)
14. Arkansas (8.3)
15. Arizona (8.3)
16. Utah (8.1)
17. Oklahoma State (8.0)
18. Michigan (8.0)
19. Illinois (7.5)
20. NC State (7.3)
21. Texas (7.2)
22. Purdue (7.2)
23. Georgetown (7.2)
24. Wisconsin (7.1)
25. Oklahoma (6.9)

Notables:
32. Gonzaga (6.5)
40. Virginia (6.4)
44. Iowa (6.1)
102. Auburn (4.3)
358. Kennesaw State (1.1)
You're right, it is pretty worthless. There is an expiration date on success.

A program's relevance has to be measured on current strength and recent recruiting unless you are an archaeologist at an ancient dig site.
 
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ExitFlagger

Well-Known Member
May 2, 2015
10,801
7,235
113
Team
Kansas
You're right, it is pretty worthless. There is an expiration date on success.

A program's relevance has to be measured on current strength and recent recruiting unless you are an archaeologist at an ancient dig site.
salty.gif
 

KUhawks34

Well-Known Member
Gold Member
Dec 29, 2006
17,753
6,646
113
SO, exactly how good was that Memphis team then? Because if those dudes hit FT's...............
They struggled to hit free throws all year. We were a good 3 pt shooting team and hit 2 threes all game. So which is abnormal? A good shooting team not shooting well or a team missing free throws which they’ve done all season.

Not to mention Kansas beat the shit out of UNC who everyone loves. Those teams aren’t comparable. Kansas is way better than 09 UNC.
 

RockChalk82

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Gold Member
Apr 1, 2019
871
681
93
08 is our best team. There isn’t a college basketball team they couldn’t beat. By far the most underrated team of all time (nationally).

1997 went 34-1 before losing to zona. 2008 was like 35-3 or 35-4, similar record as 2010, 2011, 2020 and a couple others. 1997 was near flawless. Kentucky people will put 2015 over a couple times that won a natty I’m sure too.

if 97 played that tourney out 3 times, they’d win it the next two.
 

KUhawks34

Well-Known Member
Gold Member
Dec 29, 2006
17,753
6,646
113
1997 went 34-1 before losing to zona. 2008 was like 35-3 or 35-4, similar record as 2010, 2011, 2020 and a couple others. 1997 was near flawless. Kentucky people will put 2015 over a couple times that won a natty I’m sure too.

if 97 played that tourney out 3 times, they’d win it the next two.
Agree that 97 wins that tourney more times than not. Comparing records is not the best way to compare teams
 

IUfanBorden

Well-Known Member
Gold Member
Dec 11, 2011
30,126
13,570
113
Team
Indiana
They struggled to hit free throws all year. We were a good 3 pt shooting team and hit 2 threes all game. So which is abnormal? A good shooting team not shooting well or a team missing free throws which they’ve done all season.

Not to mention Kansas beat the shit out of UNC who everyone loves. Those teams aren’t comparable. Kansas is way better than 09 UNC.
I mean to be fair-----KU shot 39% from three----and shot just 25%(3-12) that night. BUT, Memphis shot a decent 35% from three, and was only 6-22(27%) that night...

A "wash" so to speak there...

KU shot 70% as a team from the FT line that year----but that night, KU went 14-15(93%).
Mem shot 62% as a team......went 12-19(63%) that night..

KU shot well above their season average-----Memphis right around their season average..

Big advantage Kansas...

Memphis was up 9, 60-51 with just over two minutes to go....

62-58 late when Douglass-Roberts, a 72% FT shooter, who had just hit two huge FT's earlier to give Memphis a 6 point lead with 1:40 to, suddenly goes cold, and misses 4 straight....Then Rose, a 71% shooter, hits just one of two with 10 seconds left, setting up Chalmers three to send the game to OT...

So............seems things kinda of even out here. Memphis had their two best FT shooters on the line late, and they went 1-5. Good FT shooters at that. They were a combined 9-13 that night----with all four of those misses comng in the last 1:30...

So which is abnormal? KU shooting 93% from the line-----or two 70%+ FT shooters missing 1-5 attempts late? Their only misses of the game...

Kansas was really good in '08-----but so was Memphis. Thats why I asked, if 08 KU was your best team---I disagree, then just how good was that Memphis team. And if '08 KU is on the most underrated teams of all time---, well where is Memphis at?

IMO, best KU team was 1997....Still amazed that team didn't win it all.

2008 KU better than 2009 UNC? IDK about that one.. That team beat the shit out of some good teams....Including a really good, solid MSU team in the title game by 17-----a team that had beaten earlier in the year by 35.....When on their "A" game, sheesh----that tem was a monster.
 

Farm-Cat

Well-Known Member
Gold Member
Sep 28, 2020
806
814
93
Team
Kansas State
2010 def top 10 in last 30 years since Roy boy took over. Ranking the last 30 years imo:

1) 1997 - Jacque, Raef and Pierce
2) 2008 - natty all time team
3) 2020 - ap#1 right there with the above 2
4)2022 - natty best culture team ever. Grit
5) 2002 - FF Hinrich, collison and golden
6) 2003 - runner up. Lose gooden add miles
7) 1991 - runner up. Adonis, Alonzo, Randall
8) 2018 - FF If didn’t play nova could have hung it
9)2010 - sherron with the twins, cole and T rob
10) 2011 - loaded top to bottom with the twins


2012 played for the natty and don’t have them on here. Just a great tourney run. 1993 final four and don’t have them on here either. Also just a great tourney run.

look at the records of the teams. 2020, 2008 and 2010 all were 3 loss seasons. That’s why 2010 has to be included.
Those Sunflower Showdowns in 2011 were fun to watch. Cats and Squaks both loaded
 

F-Duke

Well-Known Member
Oct 25, 2004
1,207
79
83
1997 went 34-1 before losing to zona. 2008 was like 35-3 or 35-4, similar record as 2010, 2011, 2020 and a couple others. 1997 was near flawless. Kentucky people will put 2015 over a couple times that won a natty I’m sure too.

if 97 played that tourney out 3 times, they’d win it the next two.
I'll agree to disagree on Kansas winning that tourney two out of three times because I think they just didn't match up well with Arizona. That 2008 squad on the other hand was one of the toughest I've ever seen. I remember watching that final four vs UNC with Carolina fans who were speechless as KU rolled out one future NBA big after another to smother Hansbrough.
 

dukedevilz

Well-Known Member
Apr 3, 2002
8,962
11,603
113
1. Kentucky (17.5) (1)
2. UCLA (16.9) (2)
3. North Carolina (16.1) (3)
4. Kansas (15.3) (5)
5. Duke (13.7) (4)
6. Indiana (10.8) (7)
7. Louisville (10.7) (6)
8. Connecticut (9.5) (8)
9. Villanova (9.4) (9)
10. Ohio State (9.2) (10)
11. Michigan State (9.1) (11)
12. Cincinnati (8.9) (13)
13. Syracuse (8.4) (14)
14. Arkansas (8.3) (18)
15. Arizona (8.3) (15)
16. Utah (8.1) (16)
17. Oklahoma State (8.0) (17)
18. Michigan (8.0) (12)
19. Illinois (7.5) (26)
20. NC State (7.3) (21)
21. Texas (7.2) (27)
22. Purdue (7.2) (34)
23. Georgetown (7.2) (19)
24. Wisconsin (7.1) (40)
25. Oklahoma (6.9) (27)

Pretty similar to my rankings. I still need to update for the 2022 season, as I know Kansas is going to leapfrog Duke. I think Arkansas and Gonzaga will move up a little bit, too. I put my rankings in parenthesis.
 
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JVDBeak'em

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Oct 2, 2007
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You saw Utah above Michigan and didn’t stop to rethink your weighting?

Even if you didn’t count the runner up and elite 8 years we self vacated it’s not close.

Titles:
Michigan - 1
Utah - 1

Runner up:
Michigan - 4
Utah - 1

Final Four:
Michigan - 6
Utah - 4

Elite 8:
Michigan - 15
Utah - 6

Sweet 16:
Michigan - 17
Utah - 16
This only includes Titles & Final Fours.
SOS should have probably been factored more, but I really didn't spend a ton of time on this.
Utah has twice as many conference titles and more wins/winning% and basically even in tourney appearances.
 

JVDBeak'em

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Oct 2, 2007
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You're right, it is pretty worthless. There is an expiration date on success.

A program's relevance has to be measured on current strength and recent recruiting unless you are an archaeologist at an ancient dig site.
I wish I had access to a database that would let me pick the years to pull data.
 

dukedevilz

Well-Known Member
Apr 3, 2002
8,962
11,603
113
Rhode Island was almost ranked in the final AP Poll in 2018. They were #25 heading into the conference tournaments. Saint Mary's finished the year at 25th with 71 votes, while Rhode Island had 66 receiving votes.
 

JVDBeak'em

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Gold Member
Oct 2, 2007
3,429
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Pretty similar to my rankings. I still need to update for the 2022 season, as I know Kansas is going to leapfrog Duke. I think Arkansas and Gonzaga will move up a little bit, too. I put my rankings in parenthesis.
Yours is better than mine.
 

hailtoyourvictor

Well-Known Member
Dec 11, 2012
32,969
24,506
113
This only includes Titles & Final Fours.
SOS should have probably been factored more, but I really didn't spend a ton of time on this.
Utah has twice as many conference titles and more wins/winning% and basically even in tourney appearances.

I’d recommend putting some sort of weight on SOS. Winning conference titles in a dogshit conference does not = winning them in a P6 conference. Not to mention the winning % advantage of easier opponents.
 
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JVDBeak'em

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Oct 2, 2007
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Another thing I did that I'm not sure makes a lot of sense or not, for each category I made whoever is #1 the baseline.
So for titles, UCLA gets a 1 because they have the most (11). So Duke in that category would get a .45 (5/11).
Probably not the best way to go about it, but like I said, I did this in like an hour.

I do think titles are important though so I don't really feel too bad about UCLA being #2.

I really wish I could search by years. Would love to see pre-ncaa, then 1940's-70's. Then modern NCAA which you could argue was 1975 (32 teams), 1979 (40 teams) or 1985 (64 teams).
 
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della

Well-Known Member
Gold Member
Dec 11, 2001
41,264
21,502
113
Team
Tennessee
I wish I had access to a database that would let me pick the years to pull data.
When one discusses the strength of a program, it has to relate to the present time or it is nothing but a historical side note. If you added up ancient Rome's successes it would be impressive, but no one would consider Rome (Italy) a power house "program" today. The same is true in CBB.
 

ExitFlagger

Well-Known Member
May 2, 2015
10,801
7,235
113
Team
Kansas
When one discusses the strength of a program, it has to relate to the present time or it is nothing but a historical side note. If you added up ancient Rome's successes it would be impressive, but no one would consider Rome (Italy) a power house "program" today. The same is true in CBB.
Something tells me you'd have a different take if this were a football list. 🤣
 

JVDBeak'em

Well-Known Member
Gold Member
Oct 2, 2007
3,429
796
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I just redid it with tournament wins and changed the weights a little bit.

Max score possible is 25.
20% NC's
16% FF's
12% each Winning %, Conf Champs, Tourney appearances, Tourney wins
8% Total wins & Final AP Poll appearances


1. Kentucky (22.5)
2. UCLA (21.0)
3. North Carolina (20.9)
4. Kansas (19.6)
5. Duke (18.1)
6. Louisville (13.8)
7. Indiana (13.5)
8. Villanova (12.2)
9. Michigan State (11.8)
10. Connecticut (11.7)
11. Ohio State (11.5)
12. Syracuse (11.3)
13. Cincinnati (11.0)
14. Arizona (10.7)
15. Michigan (10.5)
16. Arkansas (10.3)
17. Utah (9.8)
18. Oklahoma State (9.8)
19. Illinois (9.5)
20. Purdue (9.2)
21. Georgetown (9.1)
22. Texas (8.9)
23. Oklahoma (8.8)
24. NC State (8.8)
25. Wisconsin (8.7)

Notables:
26. Florida (8.6)
33. Gonzaga (8.0)
37. Virginia (7.85)
40. Iowa (7.6)
92. Auburn (5.1)
358. Kennesaw State (1.1)

Louisville jumps Indiana.
Villanova & MSU jump UConn.