Jordan Documentary

Discussion in 'College Basketball Board' started by JimboBBN, Mar 31, 2020.

  1. toonces11

    toonces11 Well-Known Member
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    Didn’t LeBron stfu after nearly losing his Chinese deals and put his head in the sand?
     
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  2. 829305

    829305 Well-Known Member
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    Huh?
     
  3. schoonerwest

    schoonerwest Well-Known Member
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    Lebron didn’t start that trend. Gary Payton and Karl Malone went to the Lakers in 2003 or 2004. Kevin Garnett and Ray Allen went to Boston in 2007. Those were teams with multiple HOF players on them built through free agency and it was a huge deal when they formed. It wasn’t even that long ago.
     
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  4. JimboBBN

    JimboBBN Well-Known Member
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    Completely different scenarios and you know it. The Boston big three involved a trade and Karl Malone and Gary Payton were basically senior citizens. Yikes.
     
  5. schoonerwest

    schoonerwest Well-Known Member
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    Eh? Super teams have been created for a long time now. Barkley joined Johnson and Majerle in Phoenix. Chamberlain joined Baylor and West in Los Angeles. There’s been a bunch of instances where an All Pro NBA player left his team to join others on franchise that was better suited to make a playoff run. Thinking Lebron started this trend means you just haven’t looked back at the history of the NBA.

    The only time you need to bring up Lebron and the super team/franchise bouncing argument is when discussing Lebron vs. MJ. That’s when it makes the most sense. But it ends there as there’s several other HOF players who did what they had to do in order to try and win an NBA title.

    Also KG, Allen and Pierce had a HUGE influence on that happening. Unless of course you think Lebron is the first one who ever influence on what his GM did, lol.
     
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  6. brooky03

    brooky03 Well-Known Member
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    Lebron made a good run at it. Obviously fell short, but it was a good effort.
     
  7. JimboBBN

    JimboBBN Well-Known Member
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    I’m not sure how you can’t see how LeBron started the current trend in free agency. I mean it’s not a knock against him or anything, so no need to really shy away from it. The modern free agency is what it is largely due to the Heat happening.
     
  8. 829305

    829305 Well-Known Member
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    It’s not over if he wins a couple more. Think he has a couple good years left. Pretty unlikely, but never know. Kinda got screwed this year.
     
  9. schoonerwest

    schoonerwest Well-Known Member
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    Ok. What is the current trend in modern free agency then?
     
  10. SheriffBufordTJustice

    SheriffBufordTJustice Well-Known Member
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    Kareem and Oscar Robertson

    It is like people don't know the history of the NBA
     
  11. SheriffBufordTJustice

    SheriffBufordTJustice Well-Known Member
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    When MJ came back to the Bulls they didn't have all the pieces.
    Really missed Horace Grant.
    Sometimes you go to the best place to create a championship team or you bring the players that are needed.
    Jordan grabs Rodman and the Bulls win 72 games and the first of there straight Championships.

    Without Rodman or at least an above average PF they don't win those Championships.

    Jordan already knew when he was going to return to the NBA. He was mentally and physically ready but even then it wasn't enough.


    That was what LeBron felt with Cleveland but unlike Jordan he thought his options were much better elsewhere.
    I am not one to claim LeBron is in Jordan's league but I do believe LeBron gets a raw deal for going to Miami.
    The biggest issue any NBA player has post Jordan is MJ himself and how he played.
    Everyone wants to be him.

    But truthfully MJ just wanted to win and would have won anyway he could.
    Truthfully because of this the LeBron vs MJ debate is worthless.

    Should be MJ vs Bill Russell
    The two greatest champions who had the ability to lead their teams unlike any other.
     
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  12. SheriffBufordTJustice

    SheriffBufordTJustice Well-Known Member
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    He can't
    No one will come close.
    The reason why is they don't truly understand MJ.
    Jordan would have been a role player to win. LeBron just like Kobe but not as bad gets caught up with the MJ hype.

    When I was around basketball playing and coaching I learn real quick who were the winners and who just wanted to look good.
    LeBron like Kobe and probably any other player post MJ sometimes get caught up with looking good.

    You want score 35 or do you want to win basketball games.
     
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  13. JimboBBN

    JimboBBN Well-Known Member
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    Superstars teaming up in their primes via free agency
     
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  14. schoonerwest

    schoonerwest Well-Known Member
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    As mentioned to you before this has always been happening.

    Also, in the last 10 years (just curious because I really don’t know) who else? Durant, AD and Lebron? When you say superstars do you mean future top 50 HOF types or do Chris Bosh/Kyrie Irving/Blake Griffin/Paul George qualify? Because history will look back at guys like that like youngsters today think of the Robert Parish, Alvin Robertson and Alonzo Mournings of the NBA. Multi year All Stars + a couple of HOF appearances but nearly forgotten 20+ years after they last played.
     
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  15. JimboBBN

    JimboBBN Well-Known Member
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    Except it hasn't, though. As mentioned to you before. I think there is certainly a cutoff for superstar. I'm not sure where exactly that is.
     
  16. schoonerwest

    schoonerwest Well-Known Member
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    I think your argument is all the way down to “Lebron started the trend of guys leaving in free agency between the age of 26-29 who have been named to atleast 2 All-NBA teams and must have averaged atleast 25 PPG 1 season in their career”

    And even then you may not be correct but I’m not digging around to find the truth.
     
  17. JimboBBN

    JimboBBN Well-Known Member
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    Its really not hard to figure out. I promise.
     
  18. SheriffBufordTJustice

    SheriffBufordTJustice Well-Known Member
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    Wilt Chamberlain

    Demanding a trade isn't any different than leaving for free agency.
     
  19. schoonerwest

    schoonerwest Well-Known Member
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    I already figured out your reasoning when I quoted your OP.
     
  20. toonces11

    toonces11 Well-Known Member
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    In his comments on Monday, James said Morey was 'not really educated on the situation' when he sent out that since-deleted October 4 tweet showing support for Hong Kong's pro-democracy protests.

    Morey's tweet of support for the protests prompted Chinese sponsors and partners to cut ties with the league and forced the NBA to answer difficult questions about free speech.

    James weighed in on the issue by telling reporters: 'We all talk about this freedom of speech. Yes, we all do have freedom of speech. But at times there are ramifications for the negative that can happen when you're not thinking about others.

    'I don't want to get into a word or sentence feud with Daryl... But I believe he wasn't educated on the situation at hand and he spoke.'

    It unleashed an immediate backlash against James, who has often spoken out on social and political matters, with some expressing dismay that this time he seemed to be more concerned about protecting his own brand and financial interests in China, where he enjoys enormous popularity.

    'I've always been welcomed with open arms,' James said.

    'I've been to China probably 15 to 20 times... to have this beautiful game that we all love to be able to bring people together in the most positive way.'

    https://www.redstate.com/nick-arama...oversy-and-daryl-moreys-support-of-hong-kong/



    Old Bronny took the side of money instead of human rights.
     
    60 toonces11, Apr 21, 2020
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2020
  21. coryfly

    coryfly Well-Known Member
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    My buddy, who is a huge Cardinals fan, had a similar experience with Ozzie Smith.
     
  22. shun1

    shun1 Well-Known Member
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    SMILE

    !!!!!!!!!!!!! GO MICHAEL JORDAN !!!!!!!!!!!!

    !!!!!!!!!!!!! GO TAR HEELS !!!!!!!!!!!!
     
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  23. Villian07

    Villian07 Well-Known Member
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    Imo when lebron went to the heat, he basically made it known there was no way anyone was gonna be able to contend with him unless u had multiple all stars or a “super team”. Sans the Dallas mavs who really only had one star.

    Even returning to Cleveland with love and kyrie, the only chance any other team had to comepe is if they also have multiple all stars. Now it’s the same with ad and lebron.

    Lebron started the current landscape of players constantly switching teams to join up with other elite players.

    Of course others did it in the past, but the difference is now there will be no more kobes or Duncan’s or nowitzkis or birds or Magic’s or Jordan’s or Wilkins who spent their entire career on one team.
     
  24. lurkeraspect84

    lurkeraspect84 Well-Known Member
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    all10 episodes have been leaked fwiw

    watching episode 8. It has a counter in the middle of the screen but it doesn't matter.

    [​IMG]
     
    64 lurkeraspect84, May 2, 2020
    Last edited: May 2, 2020
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  25. schoonerwest

    schoonerwest Well-Known Member
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    True or false. ESPN is trying to make a bigger deal out of the Republican buy sneakers too comment than it ever was back then or ever has been since.
     
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  26. JimboBBN

    JimboBBN Well-Known Member
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    You know my political stances fairly well I would guess, and it didn't bother me. What bothers me is that there were people trying to influence Mike to vote a certain way because of his color. The doc made it very clear that Mike was being pressured to endorse a candidate simply because he was black. It was pretty disturbing.
     
  27. schoonerwest

    schoonerwest Well-Known Member
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    [​IMG]
     
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  28. JimboBBN

    JimboBBN Well-Known Member
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    Maybe I'm the weird one but I find this odd. Who cares if the dude is an activist or not? ESPN just pushing that agenda.
     
  29. UL_1986

    UL_1986 Well-Known Member
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    Didn’t really care about Jordan saying that, dude made it clear he didn’t want his opinions out there. He just wanted to play basketball. Different era’s of players being able to speak out, with them not having as much control over their destiny in the 80s and 90s like there is today.
     
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  30. SheriffBufordTJustice

    SheriffBufordTJustice Well-Known Member
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    Wasn't as much political as it was racial.

    Some felt Jordan turned his back and said that y'all's problem with Jesse Helms.

    I don't know if Jordan could have helped Harvey Gantt win that election but it was a black man running against a Senator who to some represented an era that people in North Carolina wanted to put to bed.

    More than that it was how the election was ran.
    They told many blacks in North Carolina they couldn't vote. This was in 1990 and by a man who was against the Voting Rights Act of 1965.


    Jordan had his reasons and most believed in was because of Nike.
    It was something that I as a black man was disappointed in.
     
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  31. SheriffBufordTJustice

    SheriffBufordTJustice Well-Known Member
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    Bill Russell disagrees.

    Russell was characterize as the angry black man his entire career. Mainly because he felt the need to speak out.

    You saw some of it with LeBron who wanted to bring that back.
    People were upset with LeBron for political reasons.

    This hasn't changed in this country.

    Like I said earlier it had nothing to do with politics.
    It was the Struggle. What is Black Identity in America.
    Some feel like no matter how great their life is it will never be what it should until blacks are treated fairly across the board.
    Like I said in the previous post Helms thought pre 1960's North Carolina should exist forever.
     
  32. toonces11

    toonces11 Well-Known Member
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    I like how MJ explained himself. It was rational. Too many people these days, that are "famous", have followers that will literally repeat and believe anything they put out there. MJ saying he didnt want to support anyone or any issues that he wasn't well versed on, seems completely responsible. We live in a day and age where people try to force the issues they think are important on people---while being oblivious that those issues may fall way down the priority line for another.
     
  33. schoonerwest

    schoonerwest Well-Known Member
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    Do you think it hurt his legacy?
     
  34. 829305

    829305 Well-Known Member
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    Not to most. It’s a column LeBron checked off but not MJ. However, MJ didn’t/doesn’t need it to be the GOAT.
     
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  35. WojoRising

    WojoRising Well-Known Member
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    Are they talking about his legacy as a person? He’s pretty much the unanimously accepted GOAT, not sure how anybody could argue his legacy has any tarnish.
     
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  36. schoonerwest

    schoonerwest Well-Known Member
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    I didn’t watch it. I just assumed that the question was only being brought up because of the times we live in. I don’t think I’ve ever heard anybody use that against him but I’m not a black man who grew up in that old era.
     
  37. TheDude1

    TheDude1 Well-Known Member
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    Yeah, he was a North Carolinian and an African American and a Democrat asked to publicly endorse a man he likely privately supported against a man who is one of the more famous public servant disgusting racists in recent times. Some people would see that as something that is morally "right" and more important than money. Others think the money matters more. The sneaker comment was pretty famous, and might have meant more to an African American at the time than a white kid who was in their teens or whathaveyou.

    It is interesting... was discussing the all-time greats, it is amazing how many of them played with other greats, and how that often isn't quite "accounted for" when we discuss what makes a good player.

    Magic wouldn't have won so much without guys like Rambis and Kareem and Worthy.

    Bird wouldn't have won so much without guys like Parrish and and McHale and Ainge.

    Kobe wouldn't have won so much without guys like Shaq and Gasol.

    Jordan wouldn't have won so much without having Pippen, Rodman (who is maybe the best rebounder in history) and Kerr (who is the leading three point shooter in history) on his team.

    Any time people discuss great players but leave out the entire "team" aspect of the game, or only focus on wins and losses (of which a single player is only technically 9% of), they clearly aren't getting the difference between a game like basketball and football, and games like singles tennis.

    Great show. Enjoying that they aren't just focused on Jordan, but on the whole team. Haven't seen the most recent episode, but waiting on them to discuss Kerr more... he is showing up a lot in interviews, and they've done a good job at giving each player a focus... we've seen Ho Grant and John Paxson and Toni K, but not Kerr yet.

    BTW, holy shit... Seth Curry is second ALL TIME in 3 point percentage in NBA history. That's amazing.
     
    77 TheDude1, May 5, 2020
    Last edited: May 5, 2020
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  38. toonces11

    toonces11 Well-Known Member
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    I would def put Wilt ahead of Rodman as best rebounder.
    And his comment was off the cuff to a few teammates...hardly a public statement. I dont know the history of the two politicians in mind---but neither have the right to demand public support from anyone and than chastise them if they decline. I'd guess 99.9% of Jordan fans could give a shit less about him staying out of politics......in short, people attempted to use Jordans fame and influence in a manner he wasnt comfortable with, and than used it against him.
     
  39. TheDude1

    TheDude1 Well-Known Member
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    I disagree with most of what you said. No politician was demanding public support. You don't know what is on the minds of 99.9 percent of Jordan fans. And what you see as "using someones fame" would be seen by some as "someone standing up for something more important than money."

    Anyway, we can move on. Just pointing out that one persons opinion is just theirs. I don't think four minutes spent on the comment, especially since Jordan is well-known for avoiding anything that could "tarnish his image"/money making potential in a world where there are guys who used their position to take a noticeable stand on issues than sports, like Robertson or Ali or Kareem or any number of guys.
     
  40. schoonerwest

    schoonerwest Well-Known Member
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    The impression I got was that Jordan just didn’t know much about the Senate race and likely didn’t care all that much about it. Not everybody out there is invested in politics. The problem I had with it is there were 1 or 2 guys in the documentary who seemed to take the moral superiority high ground over him for having lack of interest in that particular Senate race. I guess I wouldn’t really say I had a problem with it but that kind of mentality is just never flattering. I believe one of the men at the time immediately afterwards said Ali would be remembered forever while Jordan would just be a blip on the radar, or something to that effect. It’s like man you’ve got a lot to work on in your world if that’s your go to public statement of Jordan not endorsing the guy you want to win the Senate race.
     
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