Is winning a conference tournament that big of a deal?
- Thread starter Ole_Ted
- Start date
It matters if you weren't going to make the NCAAT
Every year the committee openly says “F U” to any team that had a great conference tournament. So in terms of NCAA seeding the answer is no. It does matter for midmajors or teams that only have the conference tournament as a path to the NCAAT, and all programs do want to have trophies and banners to brag about, so they matter for that as well. But overall, a huge overhyped media spectacle that fans put unneeded emphasis on.
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I’d much rather win a regular season than conference tournament. Winning both is great but regular season has a larger sample size, even with unbalanced schedules. Tourneys also have unbalanced schedules so that argument never made sense to me.
I think it depends for me personally and since I don't really give a crap what anyone else thinks then the answer is as follows. If your team kind of sucks, like UNC does this year, then I would have liked to have won it. That way you at least kind of win something. In years where you know the team has a good chance at a legit NCAAT run it matters a lot less. Regardless, it's a chance to watch your team play though.
Yeah, it was always a super dumb argument since they are both unbalanced. The regular season has always been the better gauge of who the better team is. But, that isn't really what college basketball tournament are for anyway.
Unless you need it to get in the NCAAT, no, conference tournament championships don’t matter. They’re not a predictor of NCAAT success and don’t help seeding much/at all if you’re a favorite who wins the conference tourney.
Syracuse is/was notoriously bad in conference tournaments, relative to seed. Their best NCAAT performances often came off of early conference tourney losses.
Syracuse is/was notoriously bad in conference tournaments, relative to seed. Their best NCAAT performances often came off of early conference tourney losses.
The 6 schools that won the tournaments in the power conferences aren't teams that you see winning on an annual basis. The most recent one of these six schools to win a conference tournament title was Georgetown in 2007. It's a big deal for most schools. Probably not so much for Kansas, Duke, Kentucky, UNC, and Michigan State. But for most everyone else, yes.
# of times won a conference tournament title before 2021. Also, I included the most recent title in parenthesis.
Georgia Tech (4x, 1993)
Georgetown (7x, 2007)
Texas (2x, 1995)
Illinois (2x, 2005)
Oregon State (Never)
Alabama (7x, 2002)
This will probably be the crowning achievement of Jose Alvarado's career. It is absolutely something to be proud about.
# of times won a conference tournament title before 2021. Also, I included the most recent title in parenthesis.
Georgia Tech (4x, 1993)
Georgetown (7x, 2007)
Texas (2x, 1995)
Illinois (2x, 2005)
Oregon State (Never)
Alabama (7x, 2002)
This will probably be the crowning achievement of Jose Alvarado's career. It is absolutely something to be proud about.
The 6 schools that won the tournaments in the power conferences aren't teams that you see winning on an annual basis. The most recent one of these six schools to win a conference tournament title was Georgetown in 2007. It's a big deal for most schools. Probably not so much for Kansas, Duke, Kentucky, UNC, and Michigan State. But for most everyone else, yes.
# of times won a conference tournament title before 2021. Also, I included the most recent title in parenthesis.
Georgia Tech (4x, 1993)
Georgetown (7x, 2007)
Texas (2x, 1995)
Illinois (2x, 2005)
Oregon State (Never)
Alabama (7x, 2002)
This will probably be the crowning achievement of Jose Alvarado's career. It is absolutely something to be proud about.
Kind of a skewed stat for Illinois, dude. We just climbed out of a mess we were in with a good hire, but we’re a frickin’ 1-seed stocked with young talent, and in the years before said mess began, we were regularly good.
Yes, I understand that. Illinois is a top 25 all-time program. But, the last 15 years have been a struggle. Very similar to Georgetown. Historically good, but relatively average in recent years. And obviously the difference with Illinois is they play in the Big Ten, which didn't have a tournament until 1998. Still, I imagine a Big Ten Tournament title feels pretty good.
^ Very fair, lol. And I’ll admit historically I have always downplayed the BTT until I actually attended and found the atmosphere to WAY exceed my expectations. However, as has been noted, that’s just a fan thing. It felt especially good this year, though, given the unorthodox second place finish to Michigan.
EvilMonkeyInTheCloset
Well-Known Member
Sigh, I'm gonna need to write this down so I don't have to repeatedly look this up for future references......but here's how every national champion since 2000 has done:
2000- Michigan State
(Big Ten Reg and CT champs)
2001- Duke
(ACC Reg and CT champs)
2002- Maryland
(ACC Reg champs)
2003- Syracuse
(Big East Reg Co-champs)
2004- Connecticut
(Big East CT champs)
2005- North Carolina
(ACC Reg champs)
2006- Florida
(SEC CT champs)
2007- Florida
(SEC Reg and CT champs)
2008- Kansas
(Big 12 Reg and CT champs)
2009- North Carolina
(ACC Reg champs)
2010- Duke
(ACC Reg and CT champs)
2011- Connecticut
(Big East CT champs)
2012- Kentucky
(SEC Reg champs)
2013- Louisville
(Big East Reg and CT champs)
2014- Connecticut
(2nd in Big East, lost in CT Finals)
2015- Duke
(2nd in ACC, lost in CT Semies)
2016- Villanova
(Big East Reg champs)
2017- North Carolina
(ACC Reg champs)
2018- Villanova
(Big East CT champs)
2019- Virginia
(ACC Reg co-champs)
Looking at this, there have been 10 national champions that won their conference tournament, and 15 of 20 that won their regular season conference title. So it's fairly safe to say that the barometer points more towards winning your regular season title.
In fact, there's only been 3 national champions that won their conference tournament since 2011
Of course, if you won neither your regular season or conference tournament titles, all hope is not lost. UConn and Duke proved in back to back years that with the right matchups, a run to the tournament title is possible.
2000- Michigan State
(Big Ten Reg and CT champs)
2001- Duke
(ACC Reg and CT champs)
2002- Maryland
(ACC Reg champs)
2003- Syracuse
(Big East Reg Co-champs)
2004- Connecticut
(Big East CT champs)
2005- North Carolina
(ACC Reg champs)
2006- Florida
(SEC CT champs)
2007- Florida
(SEC Reg and CT champs)
2008- Kansas
(Big 12 Reg and CT champs)
2009- North Carolina
(ACC Reg champs)
2010- Duke
(ACC Reg and CT champs)
2011- Connecticut
(Big East CT champs)
2012- Kentucky
(SEC Reg champs)
2013- Louisville
(Big East Reg and CT champs)
2014- Connecticut
(2nd in Big East, lost in CT Finals)
2015- Duke
(2nd in ACC, lost in CT Semies)
2016- Villanova
(Big East Reg champs)
2017- North Carolina
(ACC Reg champs)
2018- Villanova
(Big East CT champs)
2019- Virginia
(ACC Reg co-champs)
Looking at this, there have been 10 national champions that won their conference tournament, and 15 of 20 that won their regular season conference title. So it's fairly safe to say that the barometer points more towards winning your regular season title.
In fact, there's only been 3 national champions that won their conference tournament since 2011
Of course, if you won neither your regular season or conference tournament titles, all hope is not lost. UConn and Duke proved in back to back years that with the right matchups, a run to the tournament title is possible.
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Just one small correction. As dominant as that 2018 Villanova team was, Xavier actually won the regular season. Nova did win the CT, however.
The regular season title is the most prestigious and hardest to capture. The Tourney title is also important....less important to those that don't win it, and pretty special for those that do. Never want to head into the NCCA tourney coming off a loss imo.
EvilMonkeyInTheCloset
Well-Known Member
The regular season might be harder in theory because you have to be better over 18 games or so, but it isn't harder. There are often multiple champs as it can be shared with no outright winner. In a tournament there is only one winner and you have to win 3-5 elimination games in a row. That is hardly easy.
It is comparable to the whole season. It is hard to have the best record in the nation, but it is harder to win 6 elimination games in a row to win the ncaa tournament.
This is BS. You wouldn't see teams like Oregon St winning their league tourney if it were more difficult. We see average/mediocre teams get hot and win conference tourneys all the time. And often they're able to dodge the best teams in the conference due to upsets along the way.
EvilMonkeyInTheCloset
Well-Known Member
Kinda like when Kansas loses in the 1st Rd of the NCAA Tournament?...........
15 years ago?
Why's an Iowa fan talking about tourney wins or conference championships?🤣
1. I don't know, ask Oregon State.
2. I don't know, ask Belmont.
2. I don't know, ask Belmont.
EvilMonkeyInTheCloset
Well-Known Member
The 6 schools that won the tournaments in the power conferences aren't teams that you see winning on an annual basis. The most recent one of these six schools to win a conference tournament title was Georgetown in 2007. It's a big deal for most schools. Probably not so much for Kansas, Duke, Kentucky, UNC, and Michigan State. But for most everyone else, yes.
# of times won a conference tournament title before 2021. Also, I included the most recent title in parenthesis.
Georgia Tech (4x, 1993)
Georgetown (7x, 2007)
Texas (2x, 1995)
Illinois (2x, 2005)
Oregon State (Never)
Alabama (7x, 2002)
This will probably be the crowning achievement of Jose Alvarado's career. It is absolutely something to be proud about.
definitely something to be proud of, but let's call it proud with a small p. Ok, now that I wrote that I realize it sounds like something else. But the point remains. Winning the ACC tournament is a huge achievement normally but winning it when you only had to beat one ranked team and didn't even have to play in the semi finals is not nearly as impressive an achievement.
That makes me wonder. Has a team won the ACC tournament before without having to play more than one ranked team?
Tinkle has got his guys playing well so ignore some of their losses early, this is a different team. They are going to be prepared, Tinkle does a good job.
Thompson (PG) is their best overall player. Not a great shooter but a good athlete and ball handlers.
Reichle and Lucas can shoot the 3 ball so you can't give them room. Neither are very good defenders, however. Lucas really likes the step backs.
Alatishe is a great athlete and has been the key to their recent success. 6-7 forward who's very quick off the ground. Silva gives them size at 7-1. He's a little slow but he's not bad.
Overall, I'm expecting Tennessee to win. I think Tennessee's combo of size and athleticism should be too much for Oregon State. But Tennessee will have to be ready to play.
Looking from my selfish Illini perspective since it is what I'm most familiar with, some of our better teams have been all over the place with the BTT since it started in 1999:
2001 - Won the Big Ten in the regular season, lost early in the BTT, got a 1-seed in the NCAAs and lost a heart-breaker to Arizona in the Elite Eight (still holds the record for most fouls called in one game, with 6 of our players fouling out)
2003 - Got second in the Big Ten in the regular season by one game, got motivated and won the BTT and then flamed out as a 4-seed in the Second Round vs. what seemed like a fairly average Notre Dame team ... so the momentum certainly didn't help much there, lol.
2004 - Won the Big Ten in the regular season, lost in the BTT Championship Game by like 20 to Wisconsin and then made a run to the Sweet Sixteen before falling to an elite Duke team just a year before we were really ready to be playing at that level. So, losing in the BTT might have actually helped us in March.
2005 - Won both, pretty easily, and got the overall 1-seed and lost to a stacked UNC team in the National Championship in one of the better Championship Games of the last 20+ years. That team is hard to compare with others, though, starting off 29-0 and then winning 8 straight again before falling in the final game.
2021 - Finished somewhat controversially in second in the regular season, and it definitely seems to have motivated us to win the BTT, lol. It remains to be seen what happens in March.
I think, overall, that good teams (finished near the top of the conference, top 4 seed in the NCAAs) tend to get very little from the conference tournaments a lot of times, with above average teams (perhaps on the Bubble because they're somewhat Jekyll and Hyde or because they only got hot late in the year) and truly elite teams (clear favorites to win their conference tournaments anyway) usually coming out better off for their performances there? I don't know, it's a pretty big crapshoot, honestly.
2001 - Won the Big Ten in the regular season, lost early in the BTT, got a 1-seed in the NCAAs and lost a heart-breaker to Arizona in the Elite Eight (still holds the record for most fouls called in one game, with 6 of our players fouling out
)2003 - Got second in the Big Ten in the regular season by one game, got motivated and won the BTT and then flamed out as a 4-seed in the Second Round vs. what seemed like a fairly average Notre Dame team ... so the momentum certainly didn't help much there, lol.
2004 - Won the Big Ten in the regular season, lost in the BTT Championship Game by like 20 to Wisconsin and then made a run to the Sweet Sixteen before falling to an elite Duke team just a year before we were really ready to be playing at that level. So, losing in the BTT might have actually helped us in March.
2005 - Won both, pretty easily, and got the overall 1-seed and lost to a stacked UNC team in the National Championship in one of the better Championship Games of the last 20+ years. That team is hard to compare with others, though, starting off 29-0 and then winning 8 straight again before falling in the final game.
2021 - Finished somewhat controversially in second in the regular season, and it definitely seems to have motivated us to win the BTT, lol. It remains to be seen what happens in March.
I think, overall, that good teams (finished near the top of the conference, top 4 seed in the NCAAs) tend to get very little from the conference tournaments a lot of times, with above average teams (perhaps on the Bubble because they're somewhat Jekyll and Hyde or because they only got hot late in the year) and truly elite teams (clear favorites to win their conference tournaments anyway) usually coming out better off for their performances there? I don't know, it's a pretty big crapshoot, honestly.
