Illini made a mistake in taking Dosunmu over Horton-Tucker

[Silent Banjo]

From what I heard, Dosunmu and Horton-Tucker were in rival camps with those behind Dosunmu threatening that Donsunmu would decommit if Horton-Tucker committed. If that's true and the Illini were forced to take one or the other, they made the wrong choice IMO. Even though Dosunmu may be the more talented player, he's likely gone after one year with visions, rightly or wrongly, that he'll dynamically take the NBA storm. Conversely, Horton-Tucker does not possess majestic talents that will compel him to go pro after one year. He's quite likely the type of payer who'll be wonderfully productive in college for four years and not quite fit for what the NBA wants....sort of like Bonzie Colson. This is something to analyze down the road. Moreover, from what I've read and observed about their play, Horton-Tucker is much more diversified and team oriented.

 

[UPnorth Illini]

If that's true and the Illini were forced to take one or the other, they made the wrong choice IMOHe's quite likely the type of payer who'll be wonderfully productive in college for four years and not quite fit for what the NBA wants....sort of like Bonzie Colson. This is something to analyze down the road. Moreover, from what I've read and observed about their play, Horton-Tucker is much more diversified and team oriented.

Yet here we are analyzing it now months before they even get to campus...

What you also fail to mention here is that there are a plethora of highly rated players close to Ayo and his AAU team that they would have been boxed out on. That was an important part of the decision

 

[nitewing]

Yet here we are analyzing it now months before they even get to campus...

What you also fail to mention here is that there are a plethora of highly rated players close to Ayo and his AAU team that they would have been boxed out on. That was an important part of the decision

selling out for one players demands are not wise. the coach should have said bye bye and taken the player that is not selfish. there are a lot of talented AAU teams with players as good if not better than the players on a team you might get boxed out of.

which I find hard to believe

 

[Silent Banjo]

Yet here we are analyzing it now months before they even get to campus...

What you also fail to mention here is that there are a plethora of highly rated players close to Ayo and his AAU team that they would have been boxed out on. That was an important part of the decision

When I said "analyze," I meant see whether the projections come true....i.e., see whether Ayo put in his one year at Champaign before taking off to the NBA while Horton-Tucker carves out a wonderful career at Iowa State. Thought this was a relatively uncomplicated thing to present. So you're saying an AAU team would be withholding players from considering Illinois? Would there be a motivation for anything other than $$$$ in this. Would take a lot of balls to conduct this corrupt business as usual given the FBI's recent intervention.

 

[nitewing]

how many players are on a AAU team nowadays? 8 maybe 9 Players and a coach is going to cave to just one player because it may keep other players from a AAU Organization as the players on a team changes from year to year.

 

[KisteK]

I love this discussion.. or maybe just this topic.

I think Ill did it wrong. If there's blatant corruption, expose it. He could've just taken, THT, and exposed the AAU team. And no offense to the Ill fans shouting he did it right because "future kids", I am not so sure those kids, who are chill af with openly being herded into colleges and/or handlers instead of deciding for themselves, are the kind of kids I'd want for "MY" school.

I get why he did it, but I think Underwood looks like a jackass because of it. And a pathetic jackass at that..

Unless there's some additional info the Ill fans would like to inform us know - nothings..

 

[Silent Banjo]

I love this discussion.. or maybe just this topic.

I think Ill did it wrong. If there's blatant corruption, expose it. He could've just taken, THT, and exposed the AAU team. And no offense to the Ill fans shouting he did it right because "future kids", I am not so sure those kids, who are chill af with openly being herded into colleges and/or handlers instead of deciding for themselves, are the kind of kids I'd want for "MY" school.

I get why he did it, but I think Underwood looks like a jackass because of it. And a pathetic jackass at that..

Unless there's some additional info the Ill fans would like to inform us know - nothings..

It's lamentable because Illinois truly can offer a great educational opportunity. Maybe some of these kids haven't the slightest interest in that, and that's OK, but if a player does aspire to go to college and do some serious work it's disgraceful that others are interfering with that because of some power trip. Usually, that "I'm hot shit" attitude translates into unfulfilled promise at the expense of a harder working team oriented player. In a related story, Horton-Tucker's Simeon team beat Dosunmu's Morgan Park team earlier this year.

 

[CardinalBoiler]

I love this discussion.. or maybe just this topic.

I think Ill did it wrong. If there's blatant corruption, expose it. He could've just taken, THT, and exposed the AAU team. And no offense to the Ill fans shouting he did it right because "future kids", I am not so sure those kids, who are chill af with openly being herded into colleges and/or handlers instead of deciding for themselves, are the kind of kids I'd want for "MY" school.

I get why he did it, but I think Underwood looks like a jackass because of it. And a pathetic jackass at that..

Unless there's some additional info the Ill fans would like to inform us know - nothings..

Just another in a long line of examples how that program has become mired in mediocrity while the fanbase believes they are elite.

 

[Silent Banjo]

Just another in a long line of examples how that program has become mired in mediocrity while the fanbase believes they are elite.

I don't think it's a case of believing they are elite so much as believing they should be elite. If they just got a healthy fraction of top in state players they'd kick ass and take names.

 

[CardinalBoiler]

I don't think it's a case of believing they are elite so much as believing they should be elite. If they just got a healthy fraction of top in state players they'd kick ass and take names.

The nature of those Chicago grassroots program are such that I'm not sure any program should rely on them on a yearly basis. But Illinois should be able to go into St. Louis, Indiana, Ohio and Michigan and get enough talent to be a top-half B1G year-in and year-out.

 

[Silent Banjo]

The nature of those Chicago grassroots program are such that I'm not sure any program should rely on them on a yearly basis. But Illinois should be able to go into St. Louis, Indiana, Ohio and Michigan and get enough talent to be a top-half B1G year-in and year-out.

Not sure exactly what you mean. University of Illinois is the state school covering Chicago. Obviously, the Illini should explore other areas but its foundation should be in state. Why settle for a modest goal like top half? They should strive for Big Ten supremacy.

 

[CardinalBoiler]

Not sure exactly what you mean. University of Illinois is the state school covering Chicago. Obviously, the Illini should explore other areas but its foundation should be in state. Why settle for a modest goal like top half? They should strive for Big Ten supremacy.

I'm referring to the nonsense that goes on with the Chicago AAU scene - the Mac Irvin drama in this situation being a great example - is not always the most stable scene to rely on. Also, for a program that hasn't finished in the top half of the conference in the past five years, I think that's a pretty good starting point.

 

[Silent Banjo]

I'm referring to the nonsense that goes on with the Chicago AAU scene - the Mac Irvin drama in this situation being a great example - is not always the most stable scene to rely on. Also, for a program that hasn't finished in the top half of the conference in the past five years, I think that's a pretty good starting point.

Illinois has always been plagued by Chicago factions with an agenda. There used to be a Chicago Public School boycott of Illinois, led by Landon Cox of King. There are any number of players who can be a breakthrough for Illinois. D.J. Steward from Fenwick would be one. The sad thing about snubbing Horton-Tucker is that Simeon has been one program to reliably embrace Illinois...Deon Thomas, Calvin Brock,Kendrick Nunn, Jalen Tate. In fact, after the travails of Nunn, perhaps some fences needed to be mended.

 

[bMORE607]

@Jaycg15

 

[nitewing]

another note on recruiting players, a school at most not named Kentucky, recruit 2-4 players per year, the Mid West has enough top rated players that no school has to kiss any kids ass just to get them to come play for them.

Illinois has more top talent than what they know what to do with,

 

[KisteK]

It's just my lil ol opinion, but the State has enough talent to not have to depend on 1 AAU team, regardless of how stacked they are at any moment. And Illinois, being a power in the p6+, showing no power in the entire situation is eye -opening

Underwood made his decision, hope it works out for him. I'm ready for Ill to turn that corner.

 

[Jaycg15]

When Okoro commits this spring, that's because Ayo. When Adam Miller commits, that's because Ayo. We're in on a couple of top 100 guys late that claim to be showing interest because Ayo. THT is solid, but he's not delivering anyone.

THT could've not ****ed Ayo's sister, and this could've probably been resolved. Either way, Morgan Park and the MIF are going to be strong allies for Illinois. We will be a much different program in a few years.

This story isn't unique in college basketball, except that the parties made it public.

 

[Jaycg15]

Not to mention Ayo is better than THT, and is more of a need for our roster. We need length and athleticism. I really like THT, but he isn't a can't miss. He's like Goodwin at SLU, a guy that I will watch and always think about how nice he'd have, but I'm not losing sleep over it. Same for the Simeon program. We never got their top recruits with Smith at the helm anyway.

 

[illinidennis]

When Okoro commits this spring, that's because Ayo. When Adam Miller commits, that's because Ayo. We're in on a couple of top 100 guys late that claim to be showing interest because Ayo. THT is solid, but he's not delivering anyone.

THT could've not ****ed Ayo's sister, and this could've probably been resolved. Either way, Morgan Park and the MIF are going to be strong allies for Illinois. We will be a much different program in a few years.

This story isn't unique in college basketball, except that the parties made it public.

I hope you're right, but I will believe it when I see it. I still don't like letting high school kids/AAU teams dictating anything to do with who you can/can't recruit. Very bad precedent. Hopefully this works or you will look back on this with some big regrets.

 

[Jaycg15]

I hope you're right, but I will believe it when I see it. I still don't like letting high school kids/AAU teams dictating anything to do with who you can/can't recruit. Very bad precedent. Hopefully this works or you will look back on this with some big regrets.

In what way would it end up bad? The next 2-3 years of recruiting are crucial. We have an immediate impact guy coming. We both know we're leading for Okoro. That alone is enough to help rebuild the brand a bit.

The only negative is that we lose Simeon. That sucks, but they have no difference makers coming soon to that program.

If we could've avoided the situation, I'd obviously have preferred that, but it's not the end of the world.

Ignoring the drama, I'd take Ayo each time. With the drama, same thing.

 

[Silent Banjo]

I hope you're right, but I will believe it when I see it. I still don't like letting high school kids/AAU teams dictating anything to do with who you can/can't recruit. Very bad precedent. Hopefully this works or you will look back on this with some big regrets.

So much of why a certain recruit may or may not commit is supposition. Kudos to Ayo if he is indeed the Pied Piper of studs, but I'd still have taken Horton-Tucker who is a very good player and almost assuredly will be in your program for 4 years.

 

[Jaycg15]

So much of why a certain recruit may or may not commit is supposition. Kudos to Ayo if he is indeed the Pied Piper of studs, but I'd still have taken Horton-Tucker who is a very good player and almost assuredly will be in your program for 4 years.

Why? Because he will be a 4 year player?

 

[Silent Banjo]

Why? Because he will be a 4 year player?

He'll be a very productive 4 year player, and Simeon does have difference making players to offer. Messiah Jones is right there with Horton-Tucker and Ahmad Bynum is considered by many to be the best freshman in the state.

 

[Jaycg15]

He'll be a very productive 4 year player, and Simeon does have difference making players to offer. Messiah Jones is right there with Horton-Tucker and Ahman Bynum is considered by many to be the best freshman in the state.

You mean Drake commit Messiah Jones? I don't see how he is going to help Illinois. Bynum won't be in college for 4 years and Chicago freshman don't always pan out.

I'll take a really good shot at Kahlil Whitney, Okoro, and Adam Miller over the one guy you listed.

Ayo is dropping 60 points in games. I'll take that type of player for two years minimum gladly. And as I mentioned earlier, THT is only adding to our undersized player issue. He is talented, no doubt, but if you knew anything about our roster makeup and defensive scheme, it would be abundantly clear that we need a different sort of player at the moment.

 

[Silent Banjo]

You mean Drake commit Messiah Jones? I don't see how he is going to help Illinois. Bynum won't be in college for 4 years and Chicago freshman don't always pan out.

I'll take a really good shot at Kahlil Whitney, Okoro, and Adam Miller over the one guy you listed.

Ayo is dropping 60 points in games. I'll take that type of player for two years minimum gladly. And as I mentioned earlier, THT is only adding to our undersized player issue. He is talented, no doubt, but if you knew anything about our roster makeup and defensive scheme, it would be abundantly clear that we need a different sort of player at the moment.

The issue was never Ayo's talent but whether one who makes demands is worth the maintenance that comes with that. Now if he were a Bagley or Ayton type talent, it might be tempting to sell out, but he isn't. Again, it's supposition that Ayo would lure any players to Illinois. Illinois would most likely get Okoro whether or not Ayo was there. There's absolutely nothing certain about the other guys you cited. You make it sound like players wouldn't be coming to Illinois because of Horton-Tucker. One of Underwood's strengths is supposed to be his recruiting, and I hope that isn't measured by riding the dubious coattails of one player. I'm also assuming Underwood hired Ortega to be more than just a impressive looking presence on the sideline. And Bynum is a getting rave reviews. Whether his arc continues to ascend, alienating him at this juncture isn't a smart move.

 

[Jaycg15]

The issue was never Ayo's talent but whether one who makes demands is worth the maintenance that comes with that. Now if he were a Bagley or Ayton type talent, it might be tempting to sell out, but he isn't. Again, it's supposition that Ayo would lure any players to Illinois. Illinois would most likely get Okoro whether or not Ayo was there. There's absolutely nothing certain about the other guys you cited. You make it sound like players wouldn't be coming to Illinois because of Horton-Tucker. One of Underwood's strengths is supposed to be his recruiting, and I hope that isn't measured by riding the dubious coattails of one player. I'm also assuming Underwood hired Ortega to be more than just a impressive looking presence on the sideline. And Bynum is a getting rave reviews. Whether his arc continues to ascend, alienating him at this juncture isn't a smart move.

Okoro was considering moving in with Ayo's family, so no we would not have gotten him had we alienated Ayo.

You clearly don't know what you're talking about. Who is Ortega? Underwood's recruiting was the big question mark. Good for Bynum. Sounds like the type of player that will end up at Duke or UK. Alienating the proven talents early in your career that I named is even more idiotic when you consider it alienates a program that pumps out way more talent than your one guy in 4 years.

Next question please.

 

[Silent Banjo]

Okoro was considering moving in with Ayo's family, so no we would not have gotten him had we alienated Ayo.

You clearly don't know what you're talking about. Who is Ortega? Underwood's recruiting was the big question mark. Good for Bynum. Sounds like the type of player that will end up at Duke or UK. Alienating the proven talents early in your career that I named is even more idiotic when you consider it alienates a program that pumps out way more talent than your one guy in 4 years.

Next question please.

OK, didn't know that Okoro and Ayo were that tight, so it's a good old fashioned package deal like Okafor and Jones going to Duke? When I said Ortega I meant Antigua, but you probably knew that. Bynum sounds like the type of player that will wind up at Duke or Kentucky? Well, to the extent that he likely has that kind of talent, you're right. Simeon has been pretty good to Illinois over the years, but nice that you want to turn off arguably the top program in the state. If alienating proven talents means not letting them run the asylum, I think that would be a wise course. And I wasn't asking a question.

 

[Jaycg15]

OK, didn't know that Okoro and Ayo were that tight, so it's a good old fashioned package deal like Okafor and Jones going to Duke? When I said Ortega I meant Antigua, but you probably knew that. Bynum sounds like the type of player that will wind up at Duke or Kentucky? Well, to the extent that he likely has that kind of talent, you're right. Simeon has been pretty good to Illinois over the years, but nice that you want to turn off arguably the top program in the state. If alienating proven talents means not letting them run the asylum, I think that would be a wise course. And I wasn't asking a question.

This isn't the 80s. Illinois hasn't gotten a high level guy from Simeon since Nick Anderson.

AAU teams are where the talent is. MIF is going to have more talent, and that's the top program in the state.

 

[Silent Banjo]

This isn't the 80s. Illinois hasn't gotten a high level guy from Simeon since Nick Anderson.

AAU teams are where the talent is. MIF is going to have more talent, and that's the top program in the state.

Supposedly, Illinois fell out of favor with Parker because they dumped Weber, if Groce didn't have the personality of the back wall of a racquetball court they likely would have gotten Norvell, and a high level guy from Simeon that they could have had was Horton-Tucker. Time will tell whether passing up him in favor other players and their connections was the prudent way to go.

 

[Jaycg15]

Supposedly, Illinois fell out of favor with Parker because they dumped Weber, if Groce didn't have the personality of the back wall of a racquetball court they likely would have gotten Norvell, and a high level guy from Simeon that they could have had was Horton-Tucker. Time will tell whether passing up him in favor other players and their connections was the prudent way to go.

Parker stopped considering Illinois when Bruce lost to UIC.

Illinois recruited other players over Norvell and missed. He was a MIF guy anyway.

The only thing that would make this a mistake is if Ayo is terrible, THT is better, Simeon all of a sudden produces 5 stars, and we don't get any of the players mentioned previously.

 

[Silent Banjo]

Parker is on record as saying that Illinois was his dream school growing up and that Weber had been recruiting him since he was in 7th grade. Obviously, with Weber being replaced by Groce, that relationship became meaningless.

As to what's presently going on, it is what it is.

 

[829305]

When Okoro commits this spring, that's because Ayo. When Adam Miller commits, that's because Ayo. We're in on a couple of top 100 guys late that claim to be showing interest because Ayo. THT is solid, but he's not delivering anyone.

THT could've not ****ed Ayo's sister, and this could've probably been resolved. Either way, Morgan Park and the MIF are going to be strong allies for Illinois. We will be a much different program in a few years.

This story isn't unique in college basketball, except that the parties made it public.

Miller is in no way a lock to Illinois. There’s a school in Lawrence you might have heard of that has their hooks deep in that boy. Adam and Ayo aren’t exactly BFFs. I know him and the situation. I’ll just leave it at that.

 

[Jaycg15]

Parker is on record as saying that Illinois was his dream school growing up and that Weber had been recruiting him since he was in 7th grade. Obviously, with Weber being replaced by Groce, that relationship became meaningless.

As to what's presently going on, it is what it is.

As someone who has followed Illinois recruiting for a long time, you only know a little bit about that recruitment. He committed to Weber on a visit, Sonny made him wait, and then they kept us in as a courtesy after the UIC game. It's well- known on Illinois circles.

 

[Jaycg15]

Miller is in no way a lock to Illinois. There’s a school in Lawrence you might have heard of that has their hooks deep in that boy. Adam and Ayo aren’t exactly BFFs. I know him and the situation. I’ll just leave it at that.

Was insinuating that we are deep in that recruitment because of Ayo, not that it is a guarantee. I do like our chances quite a bit though from what we're hearing.

 

[Silent Banjo]

As someone who has followed Illinois recruiting for a long time, you only know a little bit about that recruitment. He committed to Weber on a visit, Sonny made him wait, and then they kept us in as a courtesy after the UIC game. It's well- known on Illinois circles.

On another topic, do you know whether Illinois is making any overtures towards Fenwick guard D.J. Steward? I saw him at the Proviso West Tournament last week and he is fantastic....so much better than Kansas bound Markese Jacobs. He's only a sophomore, so there'd be an entirely new guard situation when he goes on to college. Of course, the only Fenwick player I can think of who went to Illinois is Neil Bresnahan back in prehistoric times.

 

[Jaycg15]

On another topic, do you know whether Illinois is making any overtures towards Fenwick guard D.J. Steward? I saw him at the Proviso West Tournament last week and he is fantastic....so much better than Kansas bound Markese Jacobs. He's only a sophomore, so there'd be an entirely new guard situation when he goes on to college. Of course, the only Fenwick player I can think of who went to Illinois is Neil Bresnahan back in prehistoric times.

They are recruiting him. It is really early. I don't have a good gauge on our chances.

 

[UPnorth Illini]

Jabari Parker was going to commit to Bruce Weber? Lol. Cmon man...really?