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Great CBS Article, From UK to Duke - The OAD Vacuum

They are basketball factories where kids that don't really want to go to school end up for a year before heading to the NBA. I can't wait until the one and done rule goes away.
 
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KYtotheCore said:
Congrats BDs on getting Zion. If you're lucky, this is what you wont be left to deal with a couple of years from now. Plenty of UK and Duke references - Great article, worth the read!

Enjoy (I think?)

https://www.cbssports.com/college-b...to-elite-status-looks-at-least-a-season-away/
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This is the game you play when you constantly try to win with freshmen.

The best teams in the nation this season - Purdue, Villanova, Virginia, West Virginia, Kansas, etc all have experienced players who have developed while they learned how to win.

Kentucky has amassed a pretty good collection of talent, but they arent a national title contender and that is unlikely to change in 60 days.

To win with Frosh, you have to win with the top 10 guys like AD, KAT, Monk and Fox.

Or Tre Duval, Bagley, Carter, etc. And even they have Grayson.

If this is the strategy Cal is going to continue with, you cant let Duke continue to get all the elite guys.

Guys like Vanderbilt and Washington are great players, but theyre best equipped surrounded by upperclassmen, not other freshmen.
 
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Mgkcbb said:
This is the game you play when you constantly try to win with freshmen.

The best teams in the nation this season - Purdue, Villanova, Virginia, West Virginia, Kansas, etc all have experienced players who have developed while they learned how to win.

Kentucky has amassed a pretty good collection of talent, but they arent a national title contender and that is unlikely to change in 60 days.

To win with Frosh, you have to win with the top 10 guys like AD, KAT, Monk and Fox.

Or Tre Duval, Bagley, Carter, etc. And even they have Grayson.

If this is the strategy Cal is going to continue with, you cant let Duke continue to get all the elite guys.

Guys like Vanderbilt and Washington are great players, but theyre best equipped surrounded by upperclassmen, not other freshmen.
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Vanderbilt and Washington are great players???? Wtf have I been watching then.
 
Mgkcbb said:
To win with Frosh, you have to win with the top 10 guys like AD, KAT, Monk and Fox.

Or Tre Duval, Bagley, Carter, etc. And even they have Grayson.

If this is the strategy Cal is going to continue with, you cant let Duke continue to get all the elite guys.
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I think what's happening is ever since asst. coach Orlando Antigua left UK, UK's grip has loosened a bit on top talent, but FWIW, if it means other schools want to take the title from Cal having to restock a starting 5 after one season, I'm sure he wouldn't try too hard to get it back - if he's smart. I think Duke will possibly go through what UK is experiencing this season in a couple of years at the rate they're going now.

It just isn't easy reloading year after year with start-from-scratch chemistry, and personally I think today's OAD talent is a little diluted because EVERY decent kid in high school feels like they're ready to go after a season in college. Turns out that isn't necessarily true. I say if Duke wants the top recruited classes falling short of a championship (and the "Underachieving" label that subsequently follows) they can have it.
 
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Yeah Ive been saying for years now - OAD is the best thing to ever happen to college basketball.

Teams like Purdue can now develop 4 star talent and compete when they are underclassmen against the raw talent of Duke and Kentucky and UCLA(who appears to be getting into the OADs more and more).

Without OADs, UK and Duke get all the best multi year players every year and dominate.

It strikes a very competitive balance now.

Villanova, especially, seems to be really thriving as they get top 50 guys and develop them over multiple years.

Virginia develops and wins with upperclassmen.

Kansas is playing it right by mixing in this top talent with experienced players.

Just a very level playing field with the OADs.
 
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Mgkcbb said:
Yeah Ive been saying for years now - OAD is the best thing to ever happen to college basketball.

Teams like Purdue can now develop 4 star talent and compete when they are underclassmen against the raw talent of Duke and Kentucky and UCLA(who appears to be getting into the OADs more and more).

Without OADs, UK and Duke get all the best multi year players every year and dominate.

It strikes a very competitive balance now.

Villanova, especially, seems to be really thriving as they get top 50 guys and develop them over multiple years.

Virginia develops and wins with upperclassmen.

Kansas is playing it right by mixing in this top talent with experienced players.

Just a very level playing field with the OADs.
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This is exactly it. Bennett recruits OADs but I don't think even he realistically expects to land one. Our recruiting range should be in the 40-100 range. Guys like Ty Jerome, Kyle Guy, DeAndre Hunter, Jay Huff, who were all top 100 recruits in the 2016 class. We completely whiffed in 2018 (as far as top 100 recruits) but I'm hoping that's due to lack of playing time than a deeper problem. Plus, I trust Bennett's eye for talent, even if they aren't highly ranked. We'll see what happens in 2019.
 
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And lest anyone tries the "You weren't complaining about OADs when UK was winning" angle let me say that you are right, I wasn't. But being a fan of a team that is now experiencing the downside of the hill, I think the ideal situation doesn't depend on OADs. Balance is better.
 
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jhmossy said:
This is exactly it. Bennett recruits OADs but I don't think even he realistically expects to land one. Our recruiting range should be in the 40-100 range. Guys like Ty Jerome, Kyle Guy, DeAndre Hunter, Jay Huff. We completely whiffed in 2018 but I'm hoping that's due to lack of playing time than a deeper problem. We'll see what happens in 2019.
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And thats the thing of it all - who would you rather have - Lonnie Walker, Gary Trent, Hami Diallo - or Kyle Guy?

Id take Kyle Guy. And Kyle Guy will most likely be better than most of the 4 star shooting guards next year as well since he will be even better himself.
 
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KYtotheCore said:
And lest anyone tries the "You weren't complaining about OADs when UK was winning" angle let me say that you are right, I wasn't. But being a fan of a team that is now experiencing the downside of the hill, I think the ideal situation doesn't depend on OADs. Balance is better.
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The Key to OADs is getting multiple elite talents. UK really has no elite talent this season despite having multiple OADs. Thats why theyre 14-5 instead of 17-2.
 
Mgkcbb said:
And thats the thing of it all - who would you rather have - Lonnie Walker, Gary Trent, Hami Diallo - or Kyle Guy?

Id take Kyle Guy. And Kyle Guy will most likely be better than most of the 4 star shooting guards next year as well since he will be even better himself.
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Guy for sure, especially that he's now cut the man bun.

But I think you're right about the competitive balance with OAD. Duke and Kentucky will be successful no matter what kind of recruiting strategy is in place. But OADs help programs like Purdue, Nova, Villanova more than eliminating OADs would. I just hate OAD from the player perspective more than anything. Adults should be able to make decisions, even if they are bad ones.
 
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Mgkcbb said:
The Key to OADs is getting multiple elite talents. UK really has no elite talent this season despite having multiple OADs. Thats why theyre 14-5 instead of 17-2.
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Very true. I think they have some very athletic guys who can play ball, but they need more time/coaching to reach the potential they were led to believe they had without college.
 
Mgkcbb said:
Theyd be better surrounded by experience and asked to do less is my point.

Aaron Gordon at Arizona comes to mind. He was on a team with upperclassmen and shined.
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Being surrounded by better talent 100% makes a big difference. I’ll agree with that.
 
I mean just look at last year

The best guard in the nation was far and away Frank Mason. Fox, DSjr, Ball, and Fultz were all good - but none on the level of senior Frank Mason.

Best bigs were junior Jonathan Motley and sophomores Swanigan and Happ.


The thing that breaks the mold is when Duke gets the top 3 recruits.

We are all hoping UK, Arizona, Kansas, UCLA, and Duke split up the elite talent. When they all go to one school then it makes it hard to compete.
 
Mgkcbb said:
We are all hoping UK, Arizona, Kansas, UCLA, and Duke split up the elite talent. When they all go to one school then it makes it hard to compete.
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The flip side to that is kids like Bamba picking Texas or Young to OK. Glad to see the some of the others getting a piece of the action too. Keeps thing interesting.
 
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KYtotheCore said:
The flip side to that is kids like Bamba picking Texas or Young to OK. Glad to see the some of the others getting a piece of the action too. Keeps thing interesting.
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Imagine if Trae picked Duke instead of Oklahoma. Duke would be unstoppable right now.
 
SoundSlave said:
I wasn't aware that the sky was falling on the UK program. Looks like they should have a pretty good team next year.
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I wouldn't say it's "falling", but our results speak for themselves this season, and not a typical incoming class next year, likely to make it two seasons in a row. Unheard of to this point of the decade.

We're getting some returners, but if they don't improve returning doesn't really matter.
 
The system sucks. It has always sucked. But if it's the game we're going to play then Cal had better be the best at it. Right now he isn't, and we don't have any experienced upperclassmen to offset the young talent's deficiencies.
 
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On a related note, on his radio show Coach K just complained about the lack of depth on his team next year.
 
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I've never been a fan of the OAD thing. It was okay in the beginning, but still the 12 team would never have won the title if they wouldn't have had several OAD type players return from the previous year, and a solid senior. Then the year we went 38-0, we had several returning guys.

I just don't think you can win it without some upperclassmen leadership. I'm super burned out with the OAD stuff.
 
I mean, I'm sure he will complain about lack of depth. That is his thing. Dude has a bench that is considerably more talented then UNC but whines about it, which must be awesome for those guys on the bench. That is probably why he has had like 20 transfers over the years. Those guys aren't in 'the brotherhood' apparently. OTOH, it is a great way to feature your best players though, which has helped a ton in terms of his current OAD strategy. So there are + and - to it, just like with anything else. His way of doing things has clearly worked well for him overall.
 
teenukfan15 said:
I've never been a fan of the OAD thing. It was okay in the beginning, but still the 12 team would never have won the title if they wouldn't have had several OAD type players return from the previous year, and a solid senior. Then the year we went 38-1, we had several returning guys.

I just don't think you can win it without some upperclassmen leadership. I'm super burned out with the OAD stuff.
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FIFY
 
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UNC71-00 said:
On a related note, on his radio show Coach K just complained about the lack of depth on his team next year.
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He should cohost a show with Tom Izzo. Never has a coach with so much talent have so many excuses.
 
coryfly said:
I mean, I'm sure he will complain about lack of depth. That is his thing. Dude has a bench that is considerably more talented then UNC but whines about it, which must be awesome for those guys on the bench. That is probably why he has had like 20 transfers over the years. Those guys aren't in 'the brotherhood' apparently. OTOH, it is a great way to feature your best players though, which has helped a ton in terms of his current OAD strategy. So there are + and - to it, just like with anything else. His way of doing things has clearly worked well for him overall.
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It's not a brotherhood- it's the womb. Stay for 9 months, get out and never go back.
 
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