Gonzagas actual numbers

dukedevilz

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I would love to see Gonzaga play (UK's 2021/22 schedule):
@ Auburn
@ UT
@ Vandy (don't laugh, trust me)
@ Bama
@ Kansas
@ Arkansas
@ LSU
Bama
UT
@ Florida (fighting for the NCAAT)
Florida
LSU
@ aTm
Duke
@ Notre Dame

Anyone that thinks this Gonzaga team would even be in contention for a 2 seed, is just being a homer.

Kentucky went 9-6 in those 15 games. They're in contention for a 1 seed.

Gonzaga, according to your perception, wouldn't even be in contention for a 2 seed. So, what you're saying is Gonzaga's ceiling would be 8-7? That's the absolute best they could do in those 15 contests. That kind of makes you sound like an SEC homer.
 

dukedevilz

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San Francisco is the poster child of why the kenpom and net rankings are somewhat bullshit

Did you finally watch San Francisco play a full half yesterday?

People thought the same thing when Loyola Chicago was a top 10 KenPom team going into the tournament. Turns out he was right.

It's comical that you whine so much about the "blue bloods not caring about anyone else's opinion." And here you are basically making the same argument. "We're the SEC and USF plays in a trash conference"
 

AuHoosier420

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Did you finally watch San Francisco play a full half yesterday?

People thought the same thing when Loyola Chicago was a top 10 KenPom team going into the tournament. Turns out he was right.

It's comical that you whine so much about the "blue bloods not caring about anyone else's opinion." And hear you are basically making the same argument. "We're the SEC and USF plays in a trash conference"
I watched the the whole first half last night. It was a complete miss match. You are also wrong about my thoughts on blue blood fans. I enjoy making fun of your types because you think you know it all when it comes to basketball. Boosting up an unathletic USF team proves my point.
 
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Montana81

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I wish kentucky got to play at san francisco for a quad 1 win instead of at lsu, notre dame, auburn, arkansas or tennessee.

swapping just that one game means we’d be a lock for a 1 seed right now instead of having to likely beat an alabama team(that gonzaga couldn’t beat in their back yard) for a 3rd time, a tennessee team that’s playing as well as anyone in the country right now, and probably 1 of arkansas or auburn(another team vying for a 1 seed) in back to back to back games…
 

dukedevilz

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I watched the the whole first half last night. It was a complete miss match.

So, you missed the second half where they cut it to single digits? And how about the part where they were missing a 1st Team All-Conference center. That kind of makes a difference.

You are also wrong about my thoughts on blue blood fans. I enjoy making fun of your types because you think you know it all when it comes to basketball. Boosting up an unathletic USF team proves my point.

You've complained about blue bloods thinking only their opinion matters several times.

I'm a college basketball fan before I'm a Duke fan. So, when Duke is pounding Syracuse, I have no issue with directing my attention towards the Wisconsin-Rutgers game - and simply watching the Duke game later. I watch every top 50 team. And guess what? The WCC has several of them.
 

ExitFlagger

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I wish kentucky got to play at san francisco for a quad 1 win instead of at lsu, notre dame, auburn, arkansas or tennessee.

swapping just that one game means we’d be a lock for a 1 seed right now instead of having to likely beat an alabama team(that gonzaga couldn’t beat in their back yard) for a 3rd time, a tennessee team that’s playing as well as anyone in the country right now, and probably 1 of arkansas or auburn(another team vying for a 1 seed) in back to back to back games…

The SEC's pretty strong this year, but let's be honest...Kentucky's had plenty of weak opponents in league play over the years.
 
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Montana81

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The SEC's pretty strong this year, but let's be honest...Kentucky's had plenty of weak opponents in league play over the years.

This is true. but it’s still much tougher than the WCC in a typical year. The thing with conferences like the sec, big 12, acc etc is most years the middle of the pack teams are still talented enough to beat you on their home courts. I do not feel that is the case in a conference like the WCC.
 

AuHoosier420

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So, you missed the second half where they cut it to single digits? And how about the part where they were missing a 1st Team All-Conference center. That kind of makes a difference.



You've complained about blue bloods thinking only their opinion matters several times.

I'm a college basketball fan before I'm a Duke fan. So, when Duke is pounding Syracuse, I have no issue with directing my attention towards the Wisconsin-Rutgers game - and simply watching the Duke game later. I watch every top 50 team. And guess what? The WCC has several of them.
USF would be playing in the Wednesday game if they played in the SEC.
 

AuHoosier420

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Is that your counter for when you don't have a counter?

Oh hey, my brother can beat up your brother. Just stating the facts, man!
No you aren’t staying the facts. You are pulling very skewed data that does not take strength of schedule fully into consideration. Metric rankings don’t mean shit if the schedules aren’t equal. It’s why the ncaa committee is not fully locked into the net rankings because they are flawed
 

dukedevilz

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No you aren’t staying the facts. You are pulling very skewed data that does not take strength of schedule fully into consideration. Metric rankings don’t mean shit if the schedules aren’t equal. It’s why the ncaa committee is not fully locked into the net rankings because they are flawed

You do realize KenPom factors in strength of schedule, right? When I say top 50 teams, I'm referencing KenPom, not the NET.

FWIW, the difference between KenPom and the NET isn't that big as far as where most teams are ranked. But you do you.
 

AuHoosier420

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You do realize KenPom factors in strength of schedule, right? When I say top 50 teams, I'm referencing KenPom, not the NET.

FWIW, the difference between KenPom and the NET isn't that big as far as where most teams are ranked. But you do you.
Kenpom doesn’t fully account for strength of schedule either. They weigh metrics more then schedule by far. If they didn’t Gonzaga would be pulled down more by its 14 quad 4 wins
 
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dukedevilz

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Kenpom doesn’t fully account for strength of schedule either. They weigh metrics more then schedule by far. If they didn’t Gonzaga would be pulled down more by its 14 quad 4 wins

Oh, so you know the exact algorithm?

It probably helps that Gonzaga has beaten 9 top 50 teams by double-digits. Their closest victory all season long was 9 points. Imagine that.
 

dukedevilz

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Also, KenPom has only 13 Non-P6 in the top 50.

Look at the NCAA Scoring Margins. 31 of the top 50 schools in scoring margin are from Non-P6 conferences. That's a colossal difference.
 

AuHoosier420

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Oh, so you know the exact algorithm?

It probably helps that Gonzaga has beaten 9 top 50 teams by double-digits. Their closest victory all season long was 9 points. Imagine that.
Ken pomeroy has even said his metrics weigh more margin of victory than it does strength of record. Some of the Gonzaga’s 9 victories against top 50 are against teams that arent actually top 50 due to this. It’s why ken even says his rankings are more about predicting point spreads than they are actually about ranking teams properly.
 

dukedevilz

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Ken pomeroy has even said his metrics weigh more margin of victory than it does strength of record. Some of the Gonzaga’s 9 victories against top 50 aren’t against teams that aren’t actually top 50 due to this. It’s why ken Ben says his rankings are more about predicting point spreads than they are actually about ranking teams properly.

You're using circular logic, bro. They're overrated because they're beating overrated teams by large margins. The overrated teams they beat are beating other overrated teams by large margins. Brilliant.

Look at my above post. There are 13 Non-P6 schools in KenPom's top 50. Yet, there are 31 in scoring margin. Yes, it really does sound like you just spout off nonsense hoping it will stick. Quite a big difference to go from 26% of the top 50 teams to 62%.
 

Bert Higginbotha

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Because I was told Gonzaga wouldn't win on the road in the SEC. Certainly you can't take too much from one game. But, it's the only SEC road game the Zags have played in the last decade. And they won handily. Not against a great team, but it was a team was above .500 in league play. That at least gives some indication that the Zags might be okay in the SEC.
I would love to see the Zags come to Lexington.
I would love the Zags to go to Gainesville and play a down Florida team.
Let the Zags go to Knoxville and play in front of 22,000 Vols.
Let the Zags go to Baton Rouge and play the most cut-throat physical team in the U.S.. Hell let the Zags go to Starkville, MS.
The Zags do not want to go to Fayetteville, AK.
Do the Zags want to schedule a home and home with Auburn?
 

lurkeraspect84

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I would love to see the Zags come to Lexington.
I would love the Zags to go to Gainesville and play a down Florida team.
Let the Zags go to Knoxville and play in front of 22,000 Vols.
Let the Zags go to Baton Rouge and play the most cut-throat physical team in the U.S.. Hell let the Zags go to Starkville, MS.
The Zags do not want to go to Fayetteville, AK.
Do the Zags want to schedule a home and home with Auburn?
They seem a bit soft for that. One thing to play OOC, another to do it twice a week for a couple of months.
 

AuHoosier420

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You're using circular logic, bro. They're overrated because they're beating overrated teams by large margins.

Look at my above post. There are 13 Non-P6 schools in KenPom's top 50. Yet, there are 31 in scoring margin. Yes, it really does sound like you just spout off nonsense hoping it will stick. Quite a big difference to go from 26% of the top 50 teams to 62%.
I don’t disagree that it takes some strength of schedule into play. My point is these it still out weighs point margin then it does stength of schedule. Ken pomeroy has even admitted to this. You aren’t very bright if you don’t think Gonzaga only playing 6 road games would be hurt more if it SOS was weighed more. You really need to do some self evaluation. I have seen some dumb poster on here. You aren’t near as smart as you think you are. You seriously just seem to lack self awareness. It’s pretty funny actually
 
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Bert Higginbotha

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Kentucky went 9-6 in those 15 games. They're in contention for a 1 seed.

Gonzaga, according to your perception, wouldn't even be in contention for a 2 seed. So, what you're saying is Gonzaga's ceiling would be 8-7? That's the absolute best they could do in those 15 contests. That kind of makes you sound like an SEC homer.
Geeze, that is twice the schedule of your beloved Duke team and the Zags can not compare. Holy crap. The Zags get two nights off to every one on. They play shit teams as a rule and you don't have to bust butt to win.

In the SEC as @AuHoosier420 keeps trying to tell you, is a grind.

The SEC grind is deeper than even the ACC. Plus we have had more years to build up rivals. The ACC is a young conference compared to the SEC.
 
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dukedevilz

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I would love to see the Zags come to Lexington.
I would love the Zags to go to Gainesville and play a down Florida team.
Let the Zags go to Knoxville and play in front of 22,000 Vols.
Let the Zags go to Baton Rouge and play the most cut-throat physical team in the U.S.. Hell let the Zags go to Starkville, MS.
The Zags do not want to go to Fayetteville, AK.
Do the Zags want to schedule a home and home with Auburn

Gonzaga has won 12 of their last 14 road games against P6 schools.

Arizona- Win
Washington- Win
Texas A&M- Win
UNC- Loss
Creighton- Win
Washignton- Win
Washington State- Win
UCLA- Win
Arizona- Loss
St.John's- Win
West Virgnia- Win
Oklahoma State- Win
Washignton State- Win
Xavier- Win

I know. It doesn't matter because they didn't play them all in the same season. They couldn't withstand a grind. At some point you guys might want to give them credit.
 

dukedevilz

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You seriously just seem to lack self awareness.

5da4e79c0da6a85a8c850cfe531b10be.jpg
 
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Bert Higginbotha

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Yes, I'm well aware that it was 2 ago. I only mentioned it because it's literally the only SEC road game they've played in the past decade.

And don't you think your Alabama comment is a bit disingenuous? Actually, very disingenuous. It was a 4-point game when they came to the under 4 minute TV timeout. Making 13 threes, especially for a below-average shooting team, certainly helped their cause.



And what does Georgia have to do with Gonzaga? Do you think winning at Georgia is just as hard as winning at Saint Mary's?



It's true, they're taking the Duke route, just playing neutral court games OOC. But, they still have 3 Quad 1 road wins. And here's a stat worth considering.

Record against Top 50 Teams Away from Home Court
Gonzaga: 5-3, 62.5%
Auburn: 3-3, 50.0%
Kentucky: 3-6, 33.3%
Tennessee: 2-7, 22.2%
Arkansas: 1-4, 20.0%

I know. I know. It's because the SEC crowds are so daunting.

But as I said previously in this very thread, if the home court is such a big factor, how come there wasn't a material difference in road winning percentage from 2021, a year without fans, to a typical year?

Road winning percentages from the last 3 seasons
2020- 35.16%
2021- 39.25% (no fans)
2022- 37.87%



I've said multiple times that Gonzaga would lose 3-4 times in a good conference. And heck, Auburn and Arkansas only played 4 road games against top 50 teams all season long. So, it kind of seems like I'm giving the benefit of the doubt to the SEC when I say Gonzaga would lose 3-4 games, most likely all road games.




Uh.... What? You realize the gap has closed on Gonzaga considerably, right? Saint Mary's and San Francisco are both in the top 25 of the metrics.

I would agree that this team is most likely a notch below 2017 and 2017. However, there isn't a juggernaut team in college basketball. They have just as a high ceiling as anyone out there.
Figures don't lie, but liars figure.

Let us talk about those "I know. I know. It's because the SEC crowds are so daunting."

Any damned time you want to talk about attendance let us do it, especially the SEC basketball versus ACC attendance. Then let us talk about football attendance. Then let us talk about the following in the NCAA Tourney SEC versus ACC. Shit, bring it on.
 

AuHoosier420

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Figures don't lie, but liars figure.

Let us talk about those "I know. I know. It's because the SEC crowds are so daunting."

Any damned time you want to talk about attendance let us do it, especially the SEC basketball versus ACC attendance. Then let us talk about football attendance. Then let us talk about the following in the NCAA Tourney SEC versus ACC. Shit, bring it on.
What the SEC is going to be doing to the ACC over the next decade is pretty comical
 
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dukedevilz

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Figures don't lie, but liars figure.

Let us talk about those "I know. I know. It's because the SEC crowds are so daunting."

Any damned time you want to talk about attendance let us do it, especially the SEC basketball versus ACC attendance. Then let us talk about football attendance. Then let us talk about the following in the NCAA Tourney SEC versus ACC. Shit, bring it on.

ACC is mostly trash. I'm not disagreeing.
 
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Bert Higginbotha

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No you aren’t staying the facts. You are pulling very skewed data that does not take strength of schedule fully into consideration. Metric rankings don’t mean shit if the schedules aren’t equal. It’s why the ncaa committee is not fully locked into the net rankings because they are flawed
I know one thing for sure; it was a lot easier to whip Kansas than little old weak Auburn. Kansas and Auburn were Quad 1 but Auburn had teeth.

I don't think that the Zags want anything to do with Auburn.
 

Bert Higginbotha

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Gonzaga has won 12 of their last 14 road games against P6 schools.

Arizona- Win
Washington- Win
Texas A&M- Win
UNC- Loss
Creighton- Win
Washignton- Win
Washington State- Win
UCLA- Win
Arizona- Loss
St.John's- Win
West Virgnia- Win
Oklahoma State- Win
Washignton State- Win
Xavier- Win

I know. It doesn't matter because they didn't play them all in the same season. They couldn't withstand a grind. At some point you guys might want to give them credit.
How about their losses?

Did you graduate from Gonzaga?
 

Bert Higginbotha

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You guys love to over emphasize a single game.

Does this mean that Kentucky sucks for losing to a Notre Dame team that had just been smacked around by Boston College, A&M and St Mary's?
yes.

Kentucky sucked big time.

You are a good poster you just have to over look me. o_O
 

dukedevilz

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How about their losses?

Did you graduate from Gonzaga?

They lost to UNC (2019) and Arizona (2015), who were both 1 seeds. The Arizona game went into OT. Call me crazy, but I don't think you could find 10 teams in America that could match that 12-2 road record.

No. I have no affiliation with Gonzaga. I knew one of their scrub players from about 15 years ago. That's about it. But, I don't dismiss their entire body of work, either
 
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mtsuhog85

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Yes, I'm well aware that it was 2 ago. I only mentioned it because it's literally the only SEC road game they've played in the past decade.

And don't you think your Alabama comment is a bit disingenuous? Actually, very disingenuous. It was a 4-point game when they came to the under 4 minute TV timeout. Making 13 threes, especially for a below-average shooting team, certainly helped their cause.



And what does Georgia have to do with Gonzaga? Do you think winning at Georgia is just as hard as winning at Saint Mary's?



It's true, they're taking the Duke route, just playing neutral court games OOC. But, they still have 3 Quad 1 road wins. And here's a stat worth considering.

Record against Top 50 Teams Away from Home Court
Gonzaga: 5-3, 62.5%
Auburn: 3-3, 50.0%
Kentucky: 3-6, 33.3%
Tennessee: 2-7, 22.2%
Arkansas: 1-4, 20.0%

I know. I know. It's because the SEC crowds are so daunting.

But as I said previously in this very thread, if the home court is such a big factor, how come there wasn't a material difference in road winning percentage from 2021, a year without fans, to a typical year?

Road winning percentages from the last 3 seasons
2020- 35.16%
2021- 39.25% (no fans)
2022- 37.87%



I've said multiple times that Gonzaga would lose 3-4 times in a good conference. And heck, Auburn and Arkansas only played 4 road games against top 50 teams all season long. So, it kind of seems like I'm giving the benefit of the doubt to the SEC when I say Gonzaga would lose 3-4 games, most likely all road games.




Uh.... What? You realize the gap has closed on Gonzaga considerably, right? Saint Mary's and San Francisco are both in the top 25 of the metrics.

I would agree that this team is most likely a notch below 2017 and 2017. However, there isn't a juggernaut team in college basketball. They have just as a high ceiling as anyone out there.

Who are these top 50 teams away from home? Over inflated conference teams like San Fran?
 

Bert Higginbotha

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They lost to UNC (2019) and Arizona (2015), who were both 1 seeds. The Arizona game went into OT. Call me crazy, but I don't think you could find 10 teams in America that could match that 12-2 road record.

No. I have no affiliation with Gonzaga. I knew one of their scrub players from about 15 years ago. That's about it. But, I don't dismiss their entire body of work, either
They lost to Alabama this year (was it at home?). Auburn and Kentucky beat Alabama twice, home and away. How do you think the Zags would do at Kentucky or Auburn? How would they do at Alabama?

Give us a break.

You give Gonzagas a lot of credit but you never admit that they play in a wussie conference. You defend one of the weakest conferences in the nation.

We all know that Gonzaga is a great team in an insignificant conference. If they did not play in that wussie conference they would never get a 1 seed, in fact they would be a four or a five. So: Why do you defend it?

You know it. I know it. Everyone else knows it. Why defend a great team in a piece of shit conference? Take your stats and go see Joe Lunardi and see if he can get the Zags higher. While you are at it get more B!G teams in. We all know it will happen.