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Gonzaga to the Pac 12 for basketball only. Why not?

EvilMonkeyInTheCloset

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Feb 25, 2008
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Your closet, most likely......
I think it's time for them to explore this option. Their women's program is also successful enough that they would be able to compete as well.

You can make the excuse that the Pac 12 would say no, but that's on the Pac 12 for being so bad at basketball. If you don't believe me, Gonzaga has as many Elite 8 appearances in the last 7 years as the entire Pac 12 combined (and will probably have more after this year).

But I'm sure both parties will have their excuses at the ready.....

Also, for basketball especially, there's really no need to worry about number of teams in a conference. The Big Ten has 14, the Big 12 has 10, the ACC has 15 with Notre Dame as a sport-only member. Nobody cares...........except the Pac 12 probably.

So I ask......why not?
 
I think it's time for them to explore this option. Their women's program is also successful enough that they would be able to compete as well.

You can make the excuse that the Pac 12 would say no, but that's on the Pac 12 for being so bad at basketball. If you don't believe me, Gonzaga has as many Elite 8 appearances in the last 7 years as the entire Pac 12 combined (and will probably have more after this year).

But I'm sure both parties will have their excuses at the ready.....

Also, for basketball especially, there's really no need to worry about number of teams in a conference. The Big Ten has 14, the Big 12 has 10, the ACC has 15 with Notre Dame as a sport-only member. Nobody cares...........except the Pac 12 probably.

So I ask......why not?

What's the benefit for Gonzaga?
 
Ok I have a lot of thoughts on this:

PAC 12 is having money and interest issues. Gonzaga is getting all of the espn late games while the PAC is on espn2. Thats not a good look for the PAC at all. People would rather watch Gonzaga blow people out by 20-30 than watch PAC games.

Does the WCC keep Gonzaga for the other sports? I would assume that they would not. So maybe they go to the Big Sky?? But who wants to bring on a team in a conference without getting football or basketball??

20 years from now, what does Gonzaga basketball look like? What does the PAC 12 look like? What does the WCC look like?

Would the PAC 12 AD's even want Gonzaga? Why would you want to bring in a school that would then beat all of your current teams, or take higher rated West Coast recruits? It would be a similar argument for the Big 12 not letting in Huston.

BYU is becoming a yearly tournament team under Mark Pope. Last year the WCC would have had a 1 seed a 4-5 in BYU and a 7-10 seed in St. Mary's. Is that going to consistently happen going forward?

How does going to the PAC 12 make Gonzaga a better basketball program? Right now in the WCC, Gonzaga is the number 1 rated team in the country, they have two lottery picks on their roster including a 1 and done, and are expected to pick up the #1 and 6 recruits in the country.

But I think the main question is, over the next 20 years, how sustainable is this Gonzaga program, and to what level? Will they be top 5 every year, top 10, top 15? And are they more relevant from winning their conference every year or by being in the top 3 of a major conference every year?
 
Best not to overthink it, and just trust in what I say.............including Iowa > Kansas SmokinSmile
Ok I have a lot of thoughts on this: (Click the quote to see my responses)

PAC 12 is having money and interest issues. Gonzaga is getting all of the espn late games while the PAC is on espn2. Thats not a good look for the PAC at all. People would rather watch Gonzaga blow people out by 20-30 than watch PAC games. (So add Gonzaga and bring more eyes to the Pac 12! :D)

Does the WCC keep Gonzaga for the other sports? (Maybe......but who cares about Gonzaga athletics......including basketball, because f*** Gonzaga (until they lose to Iowa again.......then they can go back of the list) I would assume that they would not. So maybe they go to the Big Sky?? (Honestly, it shouldn't matter. Notre Dame plays hockey in the Big Ten. Missouri is wrestling in the MAC. It's all about filling needs.) But who wants to bring on a team in a conference without getting football or basketball?? (People who aren't stubborn, first of all......

The ACC has its tie-in with Notre Dame and got them in conference this year, but it most likely was a one year thing anyway. Again, people get so caught up in these whole athletics program affiliations, when it should first and foremost be about filling individual needs (and yes, I understand it does also need to benefit the conference too).


20 years from now, what does Gonzaga basketball look like? (Probably somewhere behind Iowa in the pecking order of life, as all things should be...SmokinSmile) What does the PAC 12 look like? (Probably still the 6th best conference in the Power 6.......but in all seriousness, who knows. 20 years ago, the Pac 12 was a very solid conference, and on fairly equal footing with the Big Ten.) What does the WCC look like? (Also hard to say, because they will also probably try to replace Gonzaga in basketball. BYU may or may not stick around.. The conference itself could all of the sudden blow up and turn the Power 6 into the Super 7.....who knows. )

Would the PAC 12 AD's even want Gonzaga? (Probably not.....) Why would you want to bring in a school that would then beat all of your current teams, or take higher rated West Coast recruits? It would be a similar argument for the Big 12 not letting in Houston. (As I said, those are the chicken little excuses they would make. And that just makes the Pac 12 look worse. They hold very few cards here.........)

BYU is becoming a yearly tournament team under Mark Pope. Last year the WCC would have had a 1 seed a 4-5 in BYU and a 7-10 seed in St. Mary's. Is that going to consistently happen going forward? (Also hard to say. As a whole, the WCC is actually not half bad this year. However, St. Mary's seems to have been impacted by covid pauses and are currently near the bottom of the conference and will miss the postseason. BYU, if anything, threatens to replace St. Mary's, not join them......)

How does going to the PAC 12 make Gonzaga a better basketball program? (Money, exposure, scheduling. etc.. Why does any program need/want to be in a major conference?) Right now in the WCC, Gonzaga is the number 1 rated team in the country (And yet we're asking what if they played in the Big 10/12.......), they have two lottery picks on their roster including a 1 and done, and are expected to pick up the #1 and 6 recruits in the country. (Yeah well they should knock that sh** off..............at least until Iowa wins a national championship. Then, hell Notte Dame can go ham and become the greatest basketball dynasty of all time for all I care. I just want you all to get the f*** in line, and wait your damn turn.....:)


Is that too much to ask???)


But I think the main question is, over the next 20 years, how sustainable is this Gonzaga program, and to what level? Will they be top 5 every year, top 10, top 15? And are they more relevant from winning their conference every year or by being in the top 3 of a major conference every year?
(Gonzaga, right now, is judged by how they do in their non-conference, to build the hype, and then how they do in the NCAA tournament. Winning the WCC is mostly a foregone conclusion at this point every year for Gonzaga.

Since 1999, there have been 2 teams (in 5 different years) to win the WCC tournament, not named Gonzaga.

It's over. Move on. There's no need to be the big fish in a little pond anymore.)
 
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Best not to overthink it, and just trust in what I say.............including Iowa > Kansas SmokinSmile
A lot of fair points that I wouldn't argue with.

Gonzaga is so weird because they are such a contradiction onto themselves. Why is the small Jesuit school in Spokane so good at basketball when they have no local talent, a less than stellar conference and a comparatively small alumni base? It is a good academic school but not a great one.

But at some point, you have to get over those issues and just realize that they are really really good as basketball and they should be playing better teams in conference. IDK if the PAC 12 will ever be an option, but maybe its time for them and BYU to go to the MWC. That would definitely be a step up in competition, and would make the MWC close to on par with the likes of the current Big East.
 
I would be for it but I don't think Gonzaga would ever want to make the jump. Hell, they got an invite to the MWC and turned it down. Gonzaga has slowly built up the brand by dominating the WCC. Moving into a bigger pond puts that brand at risk. I'm not sure they want to do that. People tend to live in the moment and, of course, Gonzaga going to the PAC 12 would help them in the immediate future. But Gonzaga hasn't always had a top 10 team. There have been plenty of years Gonzaga has been a fringe top 25 team but still dominated the WCC. In those down years, they wouldn't be winning the PAC 12 and that could threaten their brand.

In short, I think Gonzaga is very content with how things are going in the WCC and I don't think they want to risk making a change.
 
Does the WCC keep Gonzaga for the other sports? I would assume that they would not. So maybe they go to the Big Sky?? But who wants to bring on a team in a conference without getting football or basketball??

I assume the PAC would add Gonzaga for their other sports as well in this scenario. Since Gonzaga doesn't play football, it wouldn't impact the only other revenue sport.
 
More money but I think that's where the benefits for them end. However, they would be accepting a decent amount of risk in exchange for a bigger paycheck.
Would it for sure be more money? They get a piece of those TV deals, but they'd give up a big chunk of their post season money. I don't know the magnitude of either of those, so I'm seriously asking.
 
Gonzaga cheats in recruiting. That is how they've built and sustained their brand at a small private school in Spokane, Washington where nobody cares enough to look into it........

Yes, Gonzaga cheats.....they're pretty good at it, too.

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I think it's time for them to explore this option. Their women's program is also successful enough that they would be able to compete as well.

You can make the excuse that the Pac 12 would say no, but that's on the Pac 12 for being so bad at basketball. If you don't believe me, Gonzaga has as many Elite 8 appearances in the last 7 years as the entire Pac 12 combined (and will probably have more after this year).

But I'm sure both parties will have their excuses at the ready.....

Also, for basketball especially, there's really no need to worry about number of teams in a conference. The Big Ten has 14, the Big 12 has 10, the ACC has 15 with Notre Dame as a sport-only member. Nobody cares...........except the Pac 12 probably.

So I ask......why not?

‘it’s a religious school. The PAC does not believe in God and will not accept alternative opinions
 
They would need another school close to Gonzaga as a travel partner to fit into the PAC 12 model, also doesn't fit with the PAC network situation. I don't think they would want to add an entire new network just for Gonzaga and I'm not sure the Washington schools would like to share their network with Gonzaga.
 
I think they’d dominate the pac 12 in its current state as well. Not like they do the WCC but they’d win the conference most years I’d be willing to bet.

Gonzaga the last couple of seasons? Sure

However, if you look over the last 20 years, you'd see some average Gonzaga teams that still ran through the WCC. They built that brand up by dominating the WCC and that would likely come to an end if they joined a major conference.

I don't think Gonzaga really has enough to gain to make the move. They can already compete a high level and recruit at an elite level. Why would they want to risk losing what they have?
 
Gonzaga the last couple of seasons? Sure

However, if you look over the last 20 years, you'd see some average Gonzaga teams that still ran through the WCC. They built that brand up by dominating the WCC and that would likely come to an end if they joined a major conference.

I don't think Gonzaga really has enough to gain to make the move. They can already compete a high level and recruit at an elite level. Why would they want to risk losing what they have?
Wouldn't they reap a huge financial benefit (TV contracts) by joining the PAC?
 
Wouldn't they reap a huge financial benefit (TV contracts) by joining the PAC?
Probably but it may not be that much. They get a high percentage of the WCC’s espn contract since 8/10 WCC games on espn feature them. They also get a disproportionate amount of NCAA tournament earnings in the WCC too.

They also made the WCC have less conference games so that they can schedule more OOC.

They literally own the WCC, they have all the power in that relationship.
 
Probably but it may not be that much. They get a high percentage of the WCC’s espn contract since 8/10 WCC games on espn feature them. They also get a disproportionate amount of NCAA tournament earnings in the WCC too.

They also made the WCC have less conference games so that they can schedule more OOC.

They literally own the WCC, they have all the power in that relationship.

And the PAC is unlikely to share any football money with them. They would see an increase but not enough to make the risks worth it
 
Gonzaga the last couple of seasons? Sure

However, if you look over the last 20 years, you'd see some average Gonzaga teams that still ran through the WCC. They built that brand up by dominating the WCC and that would likely come to an end if they joined a major conference.

I don't think Gonzaga really has enough to gain to make the move. They can already compete a high level and recruit at an elite level. Why would they want to risk losing what they have?

yeah I’m going on the premise that they keep up what they’ve established these last few seasons.
 
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yeah I’m going on the premise that they keep up what they’ve established these last few seasons.

That could happen. They could just keep it going but we've also seen teams have a great 3-4 year span and then go back to "just" being good.

I believe that's probably the more likely scenario.
 
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That could happen. They could just keep it going but we've also seen teams have a great 3-4 year span and then go back to "just" being good.

I believe that's probably the more likely scenario.
I would agree that it wouldn't be typical for a team to maintain this level, but they have absolutely changed who they are recruiting too. Only over the last 5 years have they become an elite recruiting team.

In the history of Gonzaga recruiting, 8 of their 15 best recruits are currently on their team right now. The Jalen Suggs experiment has been an absolute success and it's going to continue when they get Chet Holgrem (#1) and Hunter Sallis (#7) this year. This entire team is made up of top 100 4 star recruits or high level international players like Ayayi.
 
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I would agree that it wouldn't be typical for a team to maintain this level, but they have absolutely changed who they are recruiting too. Only over the last 5 years have they become an elite recruiting team.

In the history of Gonzaga recruiting, 8 of their 15 best recruits are currently on their team right now. The Jalen Suggs experiment has been an absolute success and it's going to continue when they get Chet Holgrem (#1) and Hunter Sallis (#7) this year. This entire team is made up of top 100 4 star recruits or high level international players like Ayayi.

And recruiting has absolutely been the difference for Gonzaga. I'm not expecting Gonzaga's success to end next season, don't get me wrong. But history shows that they probably won't be able to maintain this success, very few programs can.

One advantage that Gonzaga has is Mark Few. Most coaches in his situation would have left Gonzaga by now. The fact that Few doesn't seem interested in leaving Gonzaga has been huge in building their brand.
 
And recruiting has absolutely been the difference for Gonzaga. I'm not expecting Gonzaga's success to end next season, don't get me wrong. But history shows that they probably won't be able to maintain this success, very few programs can.

One advantage that Gonzaga has is Mark Few. Most coaches in his situation would have left Gonzaga by now. The fact that Few doesn't seem interested in leaving Gonzaga has been huge in building their brand.
I think that is the biggest question mark with Gonzaga. There are many reasons why Gonzaga shouldn't be good at basketball. Small city, no local talent, small school, small alumni base. So bringing in a school that doesn't blend in with what the Pac 12 is at all would be suspect at best. Especially since Gonzaga has only been a power with 1 coach.

Of course the school has done an incredible job of investing in the basketball program. Great arena that sells out every game, all flights are chartered, and large operating budgets. Shoot the success and investments into the men's team has made the women's team a consistent top 25 team as well.

And when Mark Few retires, they already have Tommy Lloyd as their coach in waiting. He is their ace recruiter. He is probably the best international recruiter in college basketball. So I do expect Gonzaga to continue to excel as long as he becomes the next coach.
 
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Probably but it may not be that much. They get a high percentage of the WCC’s espn contract since 8/10 WCC games on espn feature them. They also get a disproportionate amount of NCAA tournament earnings in the WCC too.

They also made the WCC have less conference games so that they can schedule more OOC.

They literally own the WCC, they have all the power in that relationship.
Sounds like an abusive relationship........
 
I think that is the biggest question mark with Gonzaga. There are many reasons why Gonzaga shouldn't be good at basketball. Small city, no local talent, small school, small alumni base. So bringing in a school that doesn't blend in with what the Pac 12 is at all would be suspect at best. Especially since Gonzaga has only been a power with 1 coach.

Of course the school has done an incredible job of investing in the basketball program. Great arena that sells out every game, all flights are chartered, and large operating budgets. Shoot the success and investments into the men's team has made the women's team a consistent top 25 team as well.

And when Mark Few retires, they already have Tommy Lloyd as their coach in waiting. He is their ace recruiter. He is probably the best international recruiter in college basketball. So I do expect Gonzaga to continue to excel as long as he becomes the next coach.
I'd prefer if Gonzaga goes the way of Nebraska football and fade out of existence........
 
Sounds like an abusive relationship........
It's a conference that rested on Gonzaga's laurels. They lucked into BYU joining and St. Mary's has been as consistent as you could ask from them.

But the rest of the conference has grossly underachieved. These are all good Private colleges with beautiful campuses in major west coast areas. The fact that none of Pepperdine, USF, Santa Clara, LMU or USD has become good basketball programs is inexcusable. USF has been close but still not good enough.
 
I think that is the biggest question mark with Gonzaga. There are many reasons why Gonzaga shouldn't be good at basketball. Small city, no local talent, small school, small alumni base. So bringing in a school that doesn't blend in with what the Pac 12 is at all would be suspect at best. Especially since Gonzaga has only been a power with 1 coach.

Of course the school has done an incredible job of investing in the basketball program. Great arena that sells out every game, all flights are chartered, and large operating budgets. Shoot the success and investments into the men's team has made the women's team a consistent top 25 team as well.

And when Mark Few retires, they already have Tommy Lloyd as their coach in waiting. He is their ace recruiter. He is probably the best international recruiter in college basketball. So I do expect Gonzaga to continue to excel as long as he becomes the next coach.

I agree with pretty much everything. My only caution would be about the coach in waiting. He may very well have success but it’s very different being the lead recruiter vs the HC.

As for them joining the PAC? I’m not sure either side really wants to make it happen. I’m a basketball fan so I’d love to see Gonzaga play a more competitive conference schedule. But there are a lot of other factors that go into it
 
I agree with pretty much everything. My only caution would be about the coach in waiting. He may very well have success but it’s very different being the lead recruiter vs the HC.

As for them joining the PAC? I’m not sure either side really wants to make it happen. I’m a basketball fan so I’d love to see Gonzaga play a more competitive conference schedule. But there are a lot of other factors that go into it
It will be interesting if the PAC's new Commissioner and upcoming TV deal make the PAC think differently. The PAC is desperate to find new revenue/relevance, maybe it is time to start looking at Gonzaga and BYU. Or maybe Huston and SMU.
 
It's a conference that rested on Gonzaga's laurels. They lucked into BYU joining and St. Mary's has been as consistent as you could ask from them.

But the rest of the conference has grossly underachieved. These are all good Private colleges with beautiful campuses in major west coast areas. The fact that none of Pepperdine, USF, Santa Clara, LMU or USD has become good basketball programs is inexcusable. USF has been close but still not good enough.

It honestly comes down to a lack of interest. None of those programs have invested in their sports programs. As you noted, St. Mary's has been solid because they have a good coach but they are starting to slip. Adding BYU was huge for the conference because it gives Gonzaga an opponent that should be a tournament team (or close to it) most years.

The 2nd tier teams to watch IMO are San Francisco and Pepperdine. USF is slowly building up a solid program but they aren't quite there. Romar is bringing in some talent at Pepperdine. They are starting to look the part.
 
It will be interesting if the PAC's new Commissioner and upcoming TV deal make the PAC think differently. The PAC is desperate to find new revenue, maybe it is time to start looking at Gonzaga and BYU. Or maybe Huston and SMU.

Too many issues with BYU for that to happen. Especially when it doesn't expand the PACs footprint.

Honestly if the PAC wants to seriously compete with the Big Ten and SEC, they need to remove some teams from the conference and get some of the Big 12 teams to join the PAC. OSU and WSU simply don't bring enough to the table. Ideally you could bring in Texas, Texas Tech, Oklahoma and Oklahoma State and remove OSU and WSU. That said, I know that's not going to happen.

I honestly don't see the PAC 12 expanding. And unless they are bringing in Texas or Oklahoma, I don't favor expansion. The last expansion didn't help the PAC. Sometimes less is more.
 
It honestly comes down to a lack of interest. None of those programs have invested in their sports programs. As you noted, St. Mary's has been solid because they have a good coach but they are starting to slip. Adding BYU was huge for the conference because it gives Gonzaga an opponent that should be a tournament team (or close to it) most years.

The 2nd tier teams to watch IMO are San Francisco and Pepperdine. USF is slowly building up a solid program but they aren't quite there. Romar is bringing in some talent at Pepperdine. They are starting to look the part.
St Mary's is off this year but I'm gonna give them the benefit of the doubt. They were solidly in the tournament if it happened last year. I think that Mark Pope is the real deal at BYU and I expect them to be a consistent top 25 team going forward.

USF and Pepperdine are/have been the teams to watch. But right now it's because of coaching. Their facilities aren't where they need to be.

Santa Clara has put a lot of money into their program but just haven't been relevant. But they have a great campus, and a great gym.
 
St Mary's is off this year but I'm gonna give them the benefit of the doubt. They were solidly in the tournament if it happened last year. I think that Mark Pope is the real deal at BYU and I expect them to be a consistent top 25 team going forward.

USF and Pepperdine are/have been the teams to watch. But right now it's because of coaching. Their facilities aren't where they need to be.

Santa Clara has put a lot of money into their program but just haven't been relevant. But they have a great campus, and a great gym.

All the WCC campuses that I've been too have been beautiful. The problem is the lack of investment. I've worked out at the University of Portland and I've seen their basketball facilities. Competitive high schools have better facilities.
 
All the WCC campuses that I've been too have been beautiful. The problem is the lack of investment. I've worked out at the University of Portland and I've seen their basketball facilities. Competitive high schools have better facilities.
Ya Portland is trash.
 
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Too many issues with BYU for that to happen. Especially when it doesn't expand the PACs footprint.

Honestly if the PAC wants to seriously compete with the Big Ten and SEC, they need to remove some teams from the conference and get some of the Big 12 teams to join the PAC. OSU and WSU simply don't bring enough to the table. Ideally you could bring in Texas, Texas Tech, Oklahoma and Oklahoma State and remove OSU and WSU. That said, I know that's not going to happen.

I honestly don't see the PAC 12 expanding. And unless they are bringing in Texas or Oklahoma, I don't favor expansion. The last expansion didn't help the PAC. Sometimes less is more.
West Coast demographics are changing and talent is more dispersed than ever. Seattle, Vegas, Phoenix, and Salt Lake City have more talent than ever. And right now the Pac is doing a poor job of getting the talent from these areas.

If you can lock up the recruits from these areas then expansion isn't important and the PAC becomes very strong again. If you continue to be average in these areas, then you need to get into Texas.
 
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West Coast demographics are changing and talent is more dispersed than ever. Seattle, Vegas, Phoenix, and Salt Lake City have more talent than ever. And right now the Pac is doing a poor job of getting the talent from these areas.

If you can lock up the recruits from these areas then expansion isn't important and the PAC becomes very strong again. If you continue to be average in these areas, then you need to get into Texas.

I agree with this but I'm not sure how adding SMU will help Oregon or USC recruit the state of Texas.

Honestly for the 2021 class, the PAC did a much better job at keeping players in their footprint. 2020 and 2019 were bad but USC's resurgence on the recruiting trail has helped. I don't think the PACs future is all doom and gloom. Oregon is recruiting at a level that we've never seen before and they are doing very well in the PAC footprint (landed the #1 players in Oregon, Arizona, Colorado and Nevada). USC's resurgence on the trail shows they are going to keep most of the top players in LA. If those two programs can turn those recruiting successes into results on the field, the PAC will see an improvement in their relevancy.
 
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