Gonzaga/Baylor

[Villian07]

Who else wants to see it. It’s been an historically crazy year, so barring a Louisville miracle run, I want to see an undefeated Gonzaga vs undefeated Baylor in the title game. They’ve proved all season they are a class above everyone else, and it would be unprecedented for two undefeated teams to meet in the final.

Usually I’m all about Cinderella’s and just mayhem in March, but for whatever reason I want to see these two go at it for the title bc I think they deserve it for navigating such a tough year flawlessly so far.

I know a lot of people want to put an asterisk next to the champ regardless bc of covid, but imo that’s just an even bigger, more significant challenge that they’ve overcome (hopefully). It’s not like its plagued the entire world but those two programs are immune.

 

[JimboBBN]

Whoever wins this year will have the asterisk of asterisks. So your scenario is fine with me. They have both been pretty impressive.

 

[Villian07]

Why the asterisk though? Seems like this year has presented way more challenges than a “normal” year with all the covid protocols, testing, quarantining etc.

As long as the tourney resembles a normal ncaaT, I don’t see why a global pandemic would make anyones accomplishments less noteworthy. The only benefit I can see is no fans for road games, but that means no fans for home games either.

 

[Villian07]

Does bama get an asterisk in football??

SEC only schedule so no d2 cupcakes, and basically smacked the shot out of everyone they played. They deserve it just as much as any other years champ imo.

now if the ncaaT proves to be a total shit show with teams losing players left and right to covid I will agree, but if it’s semi successful like the nba bubble I don’t see much of a difference. Well I mean of course everything is different, but everyone is dealing with the same thing, it’s an even playing field in regards to covid imo. Everyone has to deal with it.

 

[RR30]

Whoever wins this year will have the asterisk of asterisks. So your scenario is fine with me. They have both been pretty impressive.

Nope

 

[JimboBBN]

Why the asterisk though? Seems like this year has presented way more challenges than a “normal” year with all the covid protocols, testing, quarantining etc.

As long as the tourney resembles a normal ncaaT, I don’t see why a global pandemic would make anyones accomplishments less noteworthy. The only benefit I can see is no fans for road games, but that means no fans for home games either.

You can’t look at me with a straight face and say that this year is a more challenging year in college basketball than normal. No away games, no traveling for the tournament, oh, and it just so happens to be the first time in sixty years that every blue blood is shitting themselves.

 

[JimboBBN]

Does bama get an asterisk in football??

SEC only schedule so no d2 cupcakes, and basically smacked the shot out of everyone they played. They deserve it just as much as any other years champ imo.

now if the ncaaT proves to be a total shit show with teams losing players left and right to covid I will agree, but if it’s semi successful like the nba bubble I don’t see much of a difference. Well I mean of course everything is different, but everyone is dealing with the same thing, it’s an even playing field in regards to covid imo. Everyone has to deal with it.

I think you’re just trying too hard here. Every fan will remember this year as being different than any other one. No matter what the sport.

 

[dukedevilz]

Gonzaga is going to have A LOT of openings for games soon. Literally half of the WCC teams have paused basketball activities - LMU, Santa Clara, San Diego, San Francisco and Saint Mary’s. Gonzaga has reached out to Villanova and Houston, but to no avail. Nova was able to makeup a game with Georgetown. Houston said no because it was in the middle of road games against ECU and USF. Seems like Few should offer to play the game in Houston.

Few needs to make more phone calls. Their next game against a team that isn't currently on pause is on February 25th against Pacific. Not good. Maybe they can play BYU 10 times? That would help maintain a decent strength of schedule.

 

[FlGator22]

You can’t look at me with a straight face and say that this year is a more challenging year in college basketball than normal. No away games, no traveling for the tournament, oh, and it just so happens to be the first time in sixty years that every blue blood is shitting themselves.

Literally everything you said applies to every team, so it is an even playing field. Except for the blue bloods sucking. Teams sucking that are traditionally good doesn’t make for an asterisk.

 

[JimboBBN]

Literally everything you said applies to every team, so it is an even playing field. Except for the blue bloods sucking. Teams sucking that are traditionally good doesn’t make for an asterisk.

Has nothing to do with my point. No one will view this year's champion the same as others. You're lying if you say you do.

 

[JimboBBN]

Games cancelled, suspended, players missing in literally every game. No fans, no traveling. Gosh, can’t imagine why someone would think this years champion got off easy

 

[duckboy33]

Gonzaga is going to have A LOT of openings for games soon. Literally half of the WCC teams have paused basketball activities - LMU, Santa Clara, San Diego, San Francisco and Saint Mary’s. Gonzaga has reached out to Villanova and Houston, but to no avail. Nova was able to makeup a game with Georgetown. Houston said no because it was in the middle of road games against ECU and USF. Seems like Few should offer to play the game in Houston.

Few needs to make more phone calls. Their next game against a team that isn't currently on pause is on February 25th against Pacific. Not good. Maybe they can play BYU 10 times? That would help maintain a decent strength of schedule.

The PAC 12 needs to reach out and just add Gonzaga. They don't have a football program so nothing changes there and the rest of their programs are more than good enough.

 

[dukedevilz]

The PAC 12 needs to reach out and just add Gonzaga. They don't have a football program so nothing changes there and the rest of their programs are more than good enough.

Would make sense. Still, not sure the Pac-12 is ready to invite a religious school.

 

[FlGator22]

Has nothing to do with my point. No one will view this year's champion the same as others. You're lying if you say you do.

Everyone will remember it was the crazy 2020-21 season. That’s it. Baylor didn’t have to face road tests? So what. They also didn’t get the benefit of a home crowd like every champion ever.

You know how people will remember 2020 Alabama football? Dominant.

 

[duckboy33]

Would make sense. Still, not sure the Pac-12 is ready to invite a religious school.

Gonzaga isn't BYU. They don't have the list of demands that BYU had. I think the biggest obstacle is the Washington schools (and maybe the Oregon schools) would be opposed to it. I wouldn't be though. Gonzaga is already recruiting nationally. That will be true whether they remain in the WCC or move to the PAC 12.

 

[JimboBBN]

Everyone will remember it was the crazy 2020-21 season. That’s it. Baylor didn’t have to face road tests? So what. They also didn’t get the benefit of a home crowd like every champion ever.

You know how people will remember 2020 Alabama football? Dominant.

So dominant they beat a team that played like six games total in the year. I’m sure you will remember it like all the other years, though.

 

[dukedevilz]

Gonzaga isn't BYU. They don't have the list of demands that BYU had. I think the biggest obstacle is the Washington schools (and maybe the Oregon schools) would be opposed to it. I wouldn't be though. Gonzaga is already recruiting nationally. That will be true whether they remain in the WCC or move to the PAC 12.

Gonzaga makes sense. Just seems like that invite could have been handed out anytime in the past 3-4 years. BYU was never seriously considered. Everyone knows that. There are 0 religious schools in your conference. TCU and Baylor just as easily could have been in the potential Pac-16 discussions a decade ago. But, they weren't. Outside of Notre Dame, I doubt the Pac-12 would entertain any religious school. Maybe I'm wrong. JMO.

 

[Original_Irish]

Has nothing to do with my point. No one will view this year's champion the same as others. You're lying if you say you do.

Dude you are just saying that because your team sucks.

And even if you aren’t. Your opinion doesn’t matter because your team sucks.

 

[JimboBBN]

Dude you are just saying that because your team sucks.

And even if you aren’t. Your opinion doesn’t matter because your team sucks.

You dumbass. If I was defending my team sucking wouldn’t I be arguing that it’s a harder year than normal? Or is that too much for your tiny brain to comprehend?

 

[Original_Irish]

You dumbass. If I was defending my team sucking wouldn’t I be arguing that it’s a harder year than normal? Or is that too much for your tiny brain to comprehend?

Nope. You realize that your team stinks on ice and has no shot of winning. So you want to make sure that you discredit another team when they do win it all.

The narrative of this year not counting (having an asterisk) is a way of pretending like it’s ok that Kentucky has been so historically bad this year.

 

[JimboBBN]

Nope. You realize that your team stinks on ice and has no shot of winning. So you want to make sure that you discredit another team when they do win it all.

I deal with a lot of stupid people in real life, so I don’t have a lot of patience with you on this.

I’m demeaning my team by taking the stance I have. If they were any good, I would say the exact same thing.

As if a Notre Dame fan can talk trash about any sport. Take a hike.

 

[Villian07]

You can’t look at me with a straight face and say that this year is a more challenging year in college basketball than normal. No away games, no traveling for the tournament, oh, and it just so happens to be the first time in sixty years that every blue blood is shitting themselves.

It’s more challenging off the court for sure. More challenging offseason. The only thing that’s easier is no fans at away games, which works both ways with no fans at home games.

Not sure what the blue bloods lack of success has to do with anything. A good team is a good team. Am I supposed to believe Baylor’s roster would be that much better if they played for Kansas and not Baylor?

 

[Villian07]

I think you’re just trying too hard here. Every fan will remember this year as being different than any other one. No matter what the sport.

Different for sure. But acting like the eventual champ would not have earned it is where I disagree.

And again what’s the diff for bama in football? asterisk there as well, despite them being the best team hands down, and dog walking every team they played. Kinda like Gonzaga and Baylor have handled every good team they’ve played rather handily.

we can agree to disagree. I’d lean towards this year being tougher than a normal year moreso than easier, but I are free to have your own opinion. But Would you have the same opinion if UK had Gonzaga or Baylor’s resume?

 

[JimboBBN]

It’s more challenging off the court for sure. More challenging offseason. The only thing that’s easier is no fans at away games, which works both ways with no fans at home games.

Not sure what the blue bloods lack of success has to do with anything. A good team is a good team. Am I supposed to believe Baylor’s roster would be that much better if they played for Kansas and not Baylor?

Just shows how watered down the year is. How long its been since the teams that are normally at the top have been this bad. I mean, Iowa is a top 5 team. When does that ever happen?

 

[JimboBBN]

Different for sure. But acting like the eventual champ would not have earned it is where I disagree.

And again what’s the diff for bama in football? asterisk there as well, despite them being the best team hands down.

I'm not saying they didn't earn it. Its just different than a regular title. You avoided certain games because they were cancelled, you caught a team one night without its best player, or players. Are you really going to tell me a team deserves the title if they play in the tournament and play decimated rosters? Stop.

 

[duckboy33]

Gonzaga makes sense. Just seems like that invite could have been handed out anytime in the past 3-4 years. BYU was never seriously considered. Everyone knows that. There are 0 religious schools in your conference. TCU and Baylor just as easily could have been in the potential Pac-16 discussions a decade ago. But, they weren't. Outside of Notre Dame, I doubt the Pac-12 would entertain any religious school. Maybe I'm wrong. JMO.

There are no religious institutions right now but what religious school in the PAC 12 footprint should be in the PAC? BYU is the only argument if you are looking at all football schools and they bring a lot of baggage with them. It's why they were never considered for the Big 12 either.

As for the PAC 16 discussions, the PAC was swinging for the fences and wanted Texas, Aggy, Tech, Oklahoma and Oklahoma State to go along with Colorado. I think there are plenty of reasons why they wanted those schools instead of Baylor or TCU besides of the religious argument.

 

[dukedevilz]

There are no religious institutions right now but what religious school in the PAC 12 footprint should be in the PAC? BYU is the only argument if you are looking at all football schools and they bring a lot of baggage with them. It's why they were never considered for the Big 12 either.

As for the PAC 16 discussions, the PAC was swinging for the fences and wanted Texas, Aggy, Tech, Oklahoma and Oklahoma State to go along with Colorado. I think there are plenty of reasons why they wanted those schools instead of Baylor or TCU besides of the religious argument.

It's true, there aren't many options outside of BYU, TCU, or Baylor. Still, TCU won the Rose Bowl and RG3 won the Heisman in 2011. Those years coincided with the conference expansion talks. And both TCU and Baylor were in the hunt for the playoffs in 2014. Seemed like they could have merited more consideration.

I've heard someone with ties to the Pac 12 say that they would never consider a religiously affiliated school. Maybe they were just talking about BYU specifically. Which is still kind of funny, because just about everyone Pac 12 team plays BYU in football and/or basketball. But, I get it. Sundays and all. As far as Gonzaga, just seems like if they were deemed as a good fit, they would have received an invitation already.

 

[Jaycg15]

Gonzaga is going to have A LOT of openings for games soon. Literally half of the WCC teams have paused basketball activities - LMU, Santa Clara, San Diego, San Francisco and Saint Mary’s. Gonzaga has reached out to Villanova and Houston, but to no avail. Nova was able to makeup a game with Georgetown. Houston said no because it was in the middle of road games against ECU and USF. Seems like Few should offer to play the game in Houston.

Few needs to make more phone calls. Their next game against a team that isn't currently on pause is on February 25th against Pacific. Not good. Maybe they can play BYU 10 times? That would help maintain a decent strength of schedule.

Hoping Illinois reaches out for an ass whooping now that Michigan is trying to pull an OSU and sleepwalk to a conference title.

 

[dukedevilz]

Hoping Illinois reaches out for an ass whooping now that Michigan is trying to pull an OSU and sleepwalk to a conference title.

Would be fun to watch. Few was trying to get Houston in SLC or Spokane. He doesn't have leverage in this situation. He needs to be willing to travel across the country for a game or two. Would be a really fun matchup. I mean, you're looking at potentially 4-5 All-Americans.

 

[MGC_07]

Whoever wins this year will have the asterisk of asterisks. So your scenario is fine with me. They have both been pretty impressive.

@hailtoyourvictor

 

[Jaycg15]

Would be fun to watch. Few was trying to get Houston in SLC or Spokane. He doesn't have leverage in this situation. He needs to be willing to travel across the country for a game or two. Would be a really fun matchup. I mean, you're looking at potentially 4-5 All-Americans.

They would murder us. Our weakness is at the 4, and every game we've lost has been due to that position. To think Timme was down to Gonzaga and Illinois. This team would be ridiculous.

 

[WeAreDePaul]

Would make sense. Still, not sure the Pac-12 is ready to invite a religious school.

Didn't a major conference already offer to bring in Gonzaga, but Gonzaga refused? I thought I remember reading that here in the last couple years.

 

[EvilMonkeyInTheCloset]

Who else wants to see it. It’s been an historically crazy year, so barring a Louisville miracle run, I want to see an undefeated Gonzaga vs undefeated Baylor in the title game. They’ve proved all season they are a class above everyone else, and it would be unprecedented for two undefeated teams to meet in the final.

Usually I’m all about Cinderella’s and just mayhem in March, but for whatever reason I want to see these two go at it for the title bc I think they deserve it for navigating such a tough year flawlessly so far.

I know a lot of people want to put an asterisk next to the champ regardless bc of covid, but imo that’s just an even bigger, more significant challenge that they’ve overcome (hopefully). It’s not like its plagued the entire world but those two programs are immune.

Nah, I'd rather see Iowa play against some 16 seed that lucked their way into the National Championship game only to have all that luck run out against Iowa, so Iowa can win a national championship...............

 

[dukedevilz]

They would murder us. Our weakness is at the 4, and every game we've lost has been due to that position. To think Timme was down to Gonzaga and Illinois. This team would be ridiculous.

Would still be fun to watch. Gonzaga has had some rusty starts against Pepperdine (both games). They're not perfect, but they usually pick it up at some point. What makes them such a tough match is they play with pace - and efficiency. #2 offense with the 8th fastest tempo. It's hard to keep up with that. And they're also much better this year at getting into the passing lanes on defense. I think it would be relatively close for most of the game. Maybe Zags pull away late, similar to the Baylor-Illinois game.

Didn't a major conference already offer to bring in Gonzaga, but Gonzaga refused? I thought I remember reading that here in the last couple years.

Nah. The MWC offered an invite. But, WCC said, "Hey, we'll let you have a larger revenue share since you mean so much to this conference. Also, you don't have to play the bottom-dwellers twice a year." Gonzaga has a pretty good deal with the WCC, especially considering the ESPN markets attract much larger audiences than what the MWC offers with FS1 and CBSSN. Switching to the MWC is a lateral move.

 

[duckboy33]

It's true, there aren't many options outside of BYU, TCU, or Baylor. Still, TCU won the Rose Bowl and RG3 won the Heisman in 2011. Those years coincided with the conference expansion talks. And both TCU and Baylor were in the hunt for the playoffs in 2014. Seemed like they could have merited more consideration.

I've heard someone with ties to the Pac 12 say that they would never consider a religiously affiliated school. Maybe they were just talking about BYU specifically. Which is still kind of funny, because just about everyone Pac 12 team plays BYU in football and/or basketball. But, I get it. Sundays and all. As far as Gonzaga, just seems like if they were deemed as a good fit, they would have received an invitation already.

Baylor and TCU's resumes also looks significantly better now than when the PAC 10 was looking to expand. In 2010, TCU was in the MWC and Baylor was an after thought in every major sport.

Most of the talk is specifically about BYU. The LDS church's activism in politics rubs some presidents in the PAC 12 the wrong way and they refuse to play on Sundays (which is deal breaker in any sport besides football). I think they would be much more open to Gonzaga but there's still some issues there (they don't play football and they reside in the PAC 12's footprint).

 

[bignish]

You can’t look at me with a straight face and say that this year is a more challenging year in college basketball than normal. No away games, no traveling for the tournament, oh, and it just so happens to be the first time in sixty years that every blue blood is shitting themselves.

Baylor has played 17 games while the Zags have played 16 games and have completely dominated their competition. They would be a 1 seed in the NCAAT even if this was a completely regular year where COVID didn't exist, do you disagree?

Baylor and the Zags have higher KenPom rankings in this past decade than any team besides UK in 2015. They're complete juggernauts.

If somehow the NCAAT invited an undeserving team like Duke or Indiana and they made a miracle run to win the tournament this year in which their games had the opposition missing players due to COVID then I could see your point.

If a team like Gonzaga, Baylor, Nova or Michigan march though the tournament and win it all, they will be as deserving as any other champion that's ever existed.

We need to own up to the fact that our blue blood teams suck and that falls on the players and the coaches. It doesn't take away from Baylor or Gonzaga's brilliance.

 

[Original_Irish]

I deal with a lot of stupid people in real life, so I don’t have a lot of patience with you on this.

I’m demeaning my team by taking the stance I have. If they were any good, I would say the exact same thing.

As if a Notre Dame fan can talk trash about any sport. Take a hike.

Good thing you get to just type on a message board because I imagine you'd have trouble talking with all of those sour grapes in your mouth.

 

[hailtoyourvictor]

@hailtoyourvictor

An MSU and Kentucky fan. Two fans of top 10 programs that suck this year. I'm shocked.

 

[JimboBBN]

Baylor has played 17 games while the Zags have played 16 games and have completely dominated their competition. They would be a 1 seed in the NCAAT even if this was a completely regular year where COVID didn't exist, do you disagree?

Baylor and the Zags have higher KenPom rankings in this past decade than any team besides UK in 2015. They're complete juggernauts.

If somehow the NCAAT invited an undeserving team like Duke or Indiana and they made a miracle run to win the tournament this year in which their games had the opposition missing players due to COVID then I could see your point.

If a team like Gonzaga, Baylor, Nova or Michigan march though the tournament and win it all, they will be as deserving as any other champion that's ever existed.

We need to own up to the fact that our blue blood teams suck and that falls on the players and the coaches. It doesn't take away from Baylor or Gonzaga's brilliance.

Nish! I have never defended Kentucky this season. In fact I’ve been their biggest critic, theirs and Cals. My argument actually hurts UK even more than yours does. In a year like this, we should be flourishing.

As far as Zags and Baylor, not sure yet. They pass the eye test, have played a solid number of games I guess. Who knows how many teams they’ve each played where the other team had a player or players out. Gonzaga hasn’t played anyone with a pulse recently.

The champion will be deserving, but to compare them to past champions who have had to play full schedules, teams that were not having players in and out on a nightly basis, and had to go on rigorous road trips to packed arenas. It’s just different. That has been my argument the whole time.

 

[JimboBBN]

Good thing you get to just type on a message board because I imagine you'd have trouble talking with all of those sour grapes in your mouth.

Kentucky has sucked the whole season. I’m over it. I don’t care if you believe me or not, I would be arguing the exact same thing if my team was good.