Duke's potential vs. Kentucky's potential

crazyqx83

Well-Known Member
May 2, 2004
16,684
1,314
113
I know there have been arguments abound about the potential of duke vs. Kentucky. I realize it is early in the season, but we are starting to see some trends.

Big questions for duke:

-can they get any production at all from the bench? The 6th leading scorer is averaging 4.7 points in 13 minutes per game. What happens if someone gets in foul trouble or wears down because of playing so many minutes across a long season.
-3 point shooting. Other than Allen, this duke team has shown to be nothing short of bad at long range shooting, even though 3 point attempts account for 1/3 of their shot attempts. Allen has made 31 of his 68 attempts with every other player combining to go 36/133 at 27%.

Kentucky:

-can a team of all freshmen compete down the stretch in pressure packed games? Gabriel and SKJ are basically the 7th and 8th men and although SKJ has looked a lot better than expected, he is basically playing his first real minutes of his career. Lets call SKJ and diallo red shirt freshmen for the sake of argument. That is basically 5 true frosh (6 if vanderbilt is able to contribute), 2 red shirt freshmen and a sophomore. Unprecedented youth.
-sustaining defense and finishing off games. A couple of the games over the past month the cats have gotten a big lead only to win by single digits. This probably goes into the youth thing. Fort Wayne is an average low major. Harvard is an average mid major. The rest of the teams played since Kansas have been bad. Need to beat those teams by 20, not just get up on them by 20 and then relax.
 

toonces11

Well-Known Member
Gold Member
Mar 3, 2010
4,952
4,331
113
Team
Kansas
Duke looks just fine to me. UK looks like a bunch of athletes trying to play basketball. They just don't seem to have it like they have in years past. There is something to be said about winning ugly----a win is a win.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Montana81

crazyqx83

Well-Known Member
May 2, 2004
16,684
1,314
113
Duke looks just fine to me. UK looks like a bunch of athletes trying to play basketball. They just don't seem to have it like they have in years past. There is something to be said about winning ugly----a win is a win.
What do you mean by this? Kentucky is one of a handful of teams that has a top 25 offense and defense according to kenpom. And basically the entire roster is in their 10th game of their career.

Duke is yet again a below average defensive team. Maybe they improve like they did in 2010 and 2015, or maybe they remain bad like they have been in most other seasons and despite a high seed, fall short of the final 4.
 

JimboBBN

Well-Known Member
Jan 26, 2016
7,045
8,646
113
The Bluegrass State
Team
Kentucky
I'm of the mindset right now that Kentucky and Duke will both get better throughout the season, with Kentucky having just a tad more room to grow. Whether that will amount to them being better than Duke come March, I'm not sure. Right now its pretty obvious Duke would beat Kentucky if they played
 

MileHighSpartan

Well-Known Member
Jan 6, 2014
3,494
3,737
113
As of right now, I'd say Duke has the advantage at almost all 5 starting spots.

Duval has been a better PG than either Green or Gilgeous-Alexander, even despite his 3pt woes.

Grayson Allen has been better than Diallo by almost every statistic, other than rebounding. Allen actually has more assists than either of UK's PGs, while turning it over less.

Bagley has been better than Knox, besides 3pt shooting.

Gary Trent hasn't lived up to his ranking yet, but his 11.7ppg would still be the 3rd leading scorer on this UK team.

Wendell Carter has been better than any UK big man, outside of Knox.


UK has more depth though, and some of these guys could still pick it up. None of the UK guys are scrubs by any means, they just aren't playing at the same level as most of the Duke guys right now. Seeing as how 4 of Duke's 5 best players are Freshman, I'm not sure UK has more "potential" there. I don't think anyone on UK will be as good as Grayson or Bagley.
 

toonces11

Well-Known Member
Gold Member
Mar 3, 2010
4,952
4,331
113
Team
Kansas
What do you mean by this? Kentucky is one of a handful of teams that has a top 25 offense and defense according to kenpom. And basically the entire roster is in their 10th game of their career.

Duke is yet again a below average defensive team. Maybe they improve like they did in 2010 and 2015, or maybe they remain bad like they have been in most other seasons and despite a high seed, fall short of the final 4.
I mean I don't see the potential on this UK team as in years past. When I say this, I mean national contender/final four type squad---bc thats all anyone cares about. I feel like duke can go out and beat anyone right now in Dec and they wont get worse barring injury. I like UK's length defensively--but offensively, nobody really stands out besides knox. They can absolutely improve as the season progresses, but their potential for growth doesn't really outweigh most teams potential imo.
 

crazyqx83

Well-Known Member
May 2, 2004
16,684
1,314
113
I mean I don't see the potential on this UK team as in years past. When I say this, I mean national contender/final four type squad---bc thats all anyone cares about. I feel like duke can go out and beat anyone right now in Dec and they wont get worse barring injury. I like UK's length defensively--but offensively, nobody really stands out besides knox. They can absolutely improve as the season progresses, but their potential for growth doesn't really outweigh most teams potential imo.
So you don't like green who is shooting 52%, 91%, 44% as a 6' guard? Or SGA who is a 6'5 pg that is shooting 51%, 85%, 38% and is averaging 2.5 steals per game and might be a top 5 defender in the sec? That's not even mentioning diallo (top 5 athlete in cbb), Washington or Richards (the latter 2 who are shooting 57% and 65% respectively).

If that is truly your assessment, then why should I like anyone on KU's roster or anyone past Bagley and Allen on duke's?
 

Dattier

Well-Known Member
Sep 1, 2003
30,334
1,165
113
I know there have been arguments abound about the potential of duke vs. Kentucky. I realize it is early in the season, but we are starting to see some trends.

Big questions for duke:

-can they get any production at all from the bench? The 6th leading scorer is averaging 4.7 points in 13 minutes per game. What happens if someone gets in foul trouble or wears down because of playing so many minutes across a long season.
-3 point shooting. Other than Allen, this duke team has shown to be nothing short of bad at long range shooting, even though 3 point attempts account for 1/3 of their shot attempts. Allen has made 31 of his 68 attempts with every other player combining to go 36/133 at 27%.
Duke is getting production from its bench. That doesn't have to mean points. We have a solid 8-man rotation w/ opportunities for a few others in certain situations.

Trent is a good shooter. He's in a slump. 7 of our top 8 guys will take and can make the open 3. It definitely isn't the strength it normally is (or a strength at all, tbh).
 

toonces11

Well-Known Member
Gold Member
Mar 3, 2010
4,952
4,331
113
Team
Kansas
So you don't like green who is shooting 52%, 91%, 44% as a 6' guard? Or SGA who is a 6'5 pg that is shooting 51%, 85%, 38% and is averaging 2.5 steals per game and might be a top 5 defender in the sec? That's not even mentioning diallo (top 5 athlete in cbb), Washington or Richards (the latter 2 who are shooting 57% and 65% respectively).

If that is truly your assessment, then why should I like anyone on KU's roster or anyone past Bagley and Allen on duke's?
Ok---so you have two point guards playing absolutely fantastic by the numbers. You have a top five defender on the perimeter, one of the top five athletes in college basketball on the wing and two big men who average over 60% from the field and you have knox who is one of the best freshman in basketball and UK's top performer.........why are you struggling so much? UK's strength is defense and they have def been disruptive from Ive watched. If all these things are going so well, where are all the gigantic improvements expecting to come from? Honest question?
 

TheDude1

Well-Known Member
Apr 15, 2010
4,470
4,148
113
I really don't get fans who think Duke doesn't have a bench. I LOVE our bench. LOVE it. I think people don't know what they are talking about, and just invent talking points they WANT to be true.
 

DukeRulesBasketball

Well-Known Member
Aug 20, 2015
149
95
43
I really don't get fans who think Duke doesn't have a bench. I LOVE our bench. LOVE it. I think people don't know what they are talking about, and just invent talking points they WANT to be true.
I don’t get it either. I love our bench also and have a lot of confidence in them!
 

lurkeraspect84

Well-Known Member
Mar 4, 2014
20,612
17,449
113
Team
Kentucky
I really don't get fans who think Duke doesn't have a bench. I LOVE our bench. LOVE it. I think people don't know what they are talking about, and just invent talking points they WANT to be true.
That goes for every team. However, get one of the two bigs in foul trouble, and it becomes a different ball game. Duke is rebound a crazy amount of missed shots with Carter and Bagley.

Allen is the only threat outside. So far, Duke is rebounding Trents, Duval missed shots.
 

lurkeraspect84

Well-Known Member
Mar 4, 2014
20,612
17,449
113
Team
Kentucky
What's the 8th graders name on the bench? He's a white guy that looks no older than 15?

I saw him during the IU game and he was sitting next to Bagley.
 

lurkeraspect84

Well-Known Member
Mar 4, 2014
20,612
17,449
113
Team
Kentucky
Every team loves their bench? Hm. That's not been true for me... there are years I dread when our bench comes in.
That's just you and your team. Crazy as it sounds, others have a bench.

I'm probably off. forgive me.
 

LetsGoDuke301

Well-Known Member
Apr 4, 2009
8,843
17,652
113
Wilmington, NC
Team
Duke
What's the 8th graders name on the bench? He's a white guy that looks no older than 15?

I saw him during the IU game and he was sitting next to Bagley.
Alex O'Connell. A.K.A. Boy George. Kid is a baller and if Duke needed points off the bench, he is the guy. But so far, scoring is not what is asked of the bench. Each one of the guys that comes off of the bench typically make an impact during their time on the court. And that is all that is needed from them at this time.
 

Dattier

Well-Known Member
Sep 1, 2003
30,334
1,165
113
That goes for every team. However, get one of the two bigs in foul trouble, and it becomes a different ball game. Duke is rebound a crazy amount of missed shots with Carter and Bagley.

Allen is the only threat outside. So far, Duke is rebounding Trents, Duval missed shots.
I suspect every team has a drop-off if certain guys get into foul trouble. Carter and Bagley are EACH rebounding a crazy amount of missed shots. Off the bench, Javin DeLaurier is rebounding well, too.
 

RR30

Well-Known Member
Sep 16, 2013
3,264
2,855
113
Team
Kentucky
As of right now, I'd say Duke has the advantage at almost all 5 starting spots.

Duval has been a better PG than either Green or Gilgeous-Alexander, even despite his 3pt woes.

Grayson Allen has been better than Diallo by almost every statistic, other than rebounding. Allen actually has more assists than either of UK's PGs, while turning it over less.

Bagley has been better than Knox, besides 3pt shooting.

Gary Trent hasn't lived up to his ranking yet, but his 11.7ppg would still be the 3rd leading scorer on this UK team.

Wendell Carter has been better than any UK big man, outside of Knox.


UK has more depth though, and some of these guys could still pick it up. None of the UK guys are scrubs by any means, they just aren't playing at the same level as most of the Duke guys right now. Seeing as how 4 of Duke's 5 best players are Freshman, I'm not sure UK has more "potential" there. I don't think anyone on UK will be as good as Grayson or Bagley.
If you are comparing starting 5's Knox would be against Trent who he's absolutely better than. Everyone else Duke has an edge.
 
  • Like
Reactions: RipThru

delawaredukies

Member
Gold Member
May 21, 2008
19
12
18
Give up guys that does not fit there narrative !! lol Duke has perfect bench for this team . When this team learns how to play defense on a more consistent basis they're going to very hard to beat . it's funny how UK fans think they have more room for improvement when we're starting 4 freshman and sometimes play 5 at a time LOL.
 

TheDude1

Well-Known Member
Apr 15, 2010
4,470
4,148
113
What's the 8th graders name on the bench? He's a white guy that looks no older than 15?

I saw him during the IU game and he was sitting next to Bagley.
Alex O'Connell. LOVE him... every single time he is in, he does something good. Has that sort of basketball intangibles thing that you cannot teach.

Give up guys that does not fit there narrative !! lol Duke has perfect bench for this team . When this team learns how to play defense on a more consistent basis they're going to very hard to beat . it's funny how UK fans think they have more room for improvement when we're starting 4 freshman and sometimes play 5 at a time LOL.
Yeah, love this bench. The D needs to improve. Once that happens, Duke will be hard to beat. Heck, we are already hard to beat. And given that Duke features, outside of Grayson Allen, a bunch of freshmen and a bunch of guys who never really played, I don't know why any team in the country thinks they have *more* room for improvement than we do.
 

lurkeraspect84

Well-Known Member
Mar 4, 2014
20,612
17,449
113
Team
Kentucky
Alex O'Connell. A.K.A. Boy George. Kid is a baller and if Duke needed points off the bench, he is the guy. But so far, scoring is not what is asked of the bench. Each one of the guys that comes off of the bench typically make an impact during their time on the court. And that is all that is needed from them at this time.
That's cool. Dude needs to develop some mass. Not a knock as most freshman need to do the same.

I would say he's next in line for a certain fanbase to 'punch in the face" but he's clearly prepubescent so it would be especially harsh.
Since they're both skinny white kids. I can't help to think Tyler Herro (Ty-ler - Hair-ro; Japanese)

 
Last edited:

BasketBallJunkie-UK

Well-Known Member
Nov 18, 2011
1,358
845
113
We don't have the firepower Duke has. No superstars like we've had in the past that can go score when you need it. But we do have really good players. Knox is our best. He takes what is given to him and has the ability to make you pay for a mistake. We have no leader on the court. We lack experience and that is important when bringing in a lot of freshmen. We're the youngest team in the NCAA. But they still have a good ceiling once they realize they need to make things happen from the defensive side. All but Green are pretty good shot blockers. Most of these guys will be back next year. So we're kind of rebuilding than reloading this year.

Later in the year I think we'll be able to hang with Duke. We have size, length and quickness.
 

bkingUK

Well-Known Member
Gold Member
Sep 23, 2007
21,910
3,469
113
Duke looks just fine to me. UK looks like a bunch of athletes trying to play basketball. They just don't seem to have it like they have in years past. There is something to be said about winning ugly----a win is a win.
I kind of agree with this. They remind me somewhat of the 2014 team, which panned at well, but at least now they don't seem to gel as a team.
 

lurkeraspect84

Well-Known Member
Mar 4, 2014
20,612
17,449
113
Team
Kentucky
FWIW, I’ve been pretty impressed with Allen this year.
Me too. He won the McDonalds AA dunking contest. Showing he wasn't just an outside shooter. Then majorly helped win the title his freshman year. Sure he's had some growning pains since then but he's definitely an all american boy. Someone everyone can root for., and its great to see him doing so well. The game againse MSU was awesome. Even as a rival fan, that was good shit.
 

anon_0astpxev9h4gk

Well-Known Member
Feb 15, 2014
2,878
1,652
113
Richmond, California
Team
Louisville
Yea, not a knock on Allen at all. More of a taunting of those who believe Duke has no weakness and shooting is one of UK's. I've always like Allen's game
For sure. Definitely see the stigma there, which doesn’t make any sense really, both UK and Duke have shooters and an excellent back court. This thread seems like a measuring contest from Crazyq to attempt to rustle a jimmy or two.
 

LetsGoDuke301

Well-Known Member
Apr 4, 2009
8,843
17,652
113
Wilmington, NC
Team
Duke
Yea, not a knock on Allen at all. More of a taunting of those who believe Duke has no weakness and shooting is one of UK's. I've always like Allen's game
Can we put a name behind the people who say Duke has no weaknesses? I am not seeing them.

It was a Kentucky fan who made us take this route.
 
  • Like
Reactions: tw3301

tw3301

Well-Known Member
Mar 31, 2009
4,960
6,456
113
Team
Duke
Just out of curiosity, what is the point of this thread? I have seen no arguments about UK and Duke or their potential. There's no reason to compare the 2... Other than it's an excuse for the OP to be a homer and try his absolute hardest to point out flaws like Duke having "no bench." Also the others who have mentioned what happens if Duke's bigs get in foul trouble... Bagley played the first 10 minutes of the MSU game and Carter has routinely been in foul trouble, fouling out of the game at Indiana... Pretty sure Duke won both games.
 

LetsGoDuke301

Well-Known Member
Apr 4, 2009
8,843
17,652
113
Wilmington, NC
Team
Duke
Just out of curiosity, what is the point of this thread? I have seen no arguments about UK and Duke or their potential. There's no reason to compare the 2... Other than it's an excuse for the OP to be a homer and try his absolute hardest to point out flaws like Duke having "no bench." Also the others who have mentioned what happens if Duke's bigs get in foul trouble... Bagley played the first 10 minutes of the MSU game and Carter has routinely been in foul trouble, fouling out of the game at Indiana... Pretty sure Duke won both games.
I haven't seen anyone put down Kentucky. Maybe I have missed it. I haven't seen any Duke fan say Duke doesn't have any weaknesses. Maybe I've missed it.

This seems to be a thread for bitterness to live in.
 

tw3301

Well-Known Member
Mar 31, 2009
4,960
6,456
113
Team
Duke
I haven't seen anyone put down Kentucky. Maybe I have missed it. I haven't seen any Duke fan say Duke doesn't have any weaknesses. Maybe I've missed it.

This seems to be a thread for bitterness to live in.
Likely fueled by Rupp rafters nonsense, where the OP and his fedora should stay.
 
  • Like
Reactions: LetsGoDuke301

lurkeraspect84

Well-Known Member
Mar 4, 2014
20,612
17,449
113
Team
Kentucky
Ever hear of the phrase that if two women are sitting next to one another in a theater, they'd wonder who has the best seat? It reminds me of this thread, and most threads on a message board.

Some just know they have the best seat. Others have to explain why theirs is the best.
 

LetsGoDuke301

Well-Known Member
Apr 4, 2009
8,843
17,652
113
Wilmington, NC
Team
Duke
Ever hear of the phrase that if two women are sitting next to one another in a theater, they'd wonder who has the best seat? It reminds me of this thread, and most threads on a message board.

Some just know they have the best seat. Others have to explain why theirs is the best.
My fking seat is perfect. Yours has gum under it.