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Choose a side. Baylor or Gonzaga.

Baylor/Gonzaga.


  • Total voters
    58
UCLA did not play a perfect game. As your stats prove, they played as they have all Tournament.
Which is why I said, "nearly". They played extremely well. Didn't turn it over. Hit shots. Got big games from their studs. Had yoou been told UCLA would get 29 from Juzang, would shoot 57%, shoot 47% from three, and only turn it over 10 times----Well you would suspect they would win. Especially conswidering if I also said Kispert would be 2-8 from three, and GU only shot 32% from three.

Point is---Gonzaga took a teams best shot---their "A" game, on a night where they were meh from "3" and 60% form the line---with their AA, Kispert, being 2-8 from three....Gonzaga wasn't that sharp---silly non forced turnovers, shot the ball awful from three....terrible at the line---And still won. Great teams have games like this. Plus, well, UCLA was pretty damn good.
 
Which is why I said, "nearly". They played extremely well. Didn't turn it over. Hit shots. Got big games from their studs. Had yoou been told UCLA would get 29 from Juzang, would shoot 57%, shoot 47% from three, and only turn it over 10 times----Well you would suspect they would win. Especially conswidering if I also said Kispert would be 2-8 from three, and GU only shot 32% from three.

Point is---Gonzaga took a teams best shot---their "A" game, on a night where they were meh from "3" and 60% form the line---with their AA, Kispert, being 2-8 from three....Gonzaga wasn't that sharp---silly non forced turnovers, shot the ball awful from three....terrible at the line---And still won. Great teams have games like this. Plus, well, UCLA was pretty damn good.

Point is, UCLA has been on point for 5 games in a row. Zags took the same shot 5 other “lesser” teams took. IMO the Zags are soft on defense. Juzang did as he pleased and there was nothing the Zags could do. An average big-Reid, went for 14 points, 10 rebs, and 5 assists vs the Zags. The others got theirs.

If Baylor is on their game offensively, I suspect they zags are going to have problems with consistent offense vs the Baylor D, and be in trouble.
 
UCLA did not play a perfect game. As your stats prove, they played as they have all Tournament.
This is a 1000% wrong, they did play the perfect game, they shot 9-9 from 15-18 feet at the top of the key, they made tough shot after tough shot all night long. Based on their shot selection they should have lost by 22. You cannot look at the data and deny that they didn’t play the perfect game from an offensive side.



 
Point is, UCLA has been on point for 5 games in a row. Zags took the same shot 5 other “lesser” teams took. IMO the Zags are soft on defense. Juzang did as he pleased and there was nothing the Zags could do. An average big-Reid, went for 14 points, 10 rebs, and 5 assists vs the Zags. The others got theirs.

If Baylor is on their game offensively, I suspect they zags are going to have problems with consistent offense vs the Baylor D, and be in trouble.
Suggs is a very good defender....Not to mention, Gonzaga is 8th in KenPoms AdjD. I wouldn't call them soft...

Riley is the "average" big you mean----He had a good night. Hit some jumpers he normally does not make. His 14/10 was nice....But the kid did average 10/6 for the year. So its not like he came out of nowhere...

Baylors guards are vicious...And makes their defense go. But Baylors interior defense is where they have some issues...And Gonzaga with Timme can certainly exploit that.

Not to overlook, is the size of Baylors guards----6'2, 6'2" and 6'4"----Kispert is 6'7"....Suggs at 6'4", and Ayayi at 6'5...They can see over the pressure---post up Baylor's smaller guards.

This game is a toss-up...But cannot keep overlooking GU's defense. Its rated Top 10 for a reason.
 
This is a 1000% wrong, they did play the perfect game, they shot 9-9 from 15-18 feet at the top of the key, they made tough shot after tough shot all night long. Based on their shot selection they should have lost by 22. You cannot look at the data and deny that they didn’t play the perfect game from an offensive side.



Which was my point....Good post.
 
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This is a 1000% wrong, they did play the perfect game, they shot 9-9 from 15-18 feet at the top of the key, they made tough shot after tough shot all night long. Based on their shot selection they should have lost by 22. You cannot look at the data and deny that they didn’t play the perfect game from an offensive side.




Nobody plays the perfect game. You’re wrong. UCLA has been hot for 5 games in a row. The shots they made are not difficult shots. The shots Gonzaga made several feet beyond the arc are. Zags were lucky to win.
 
Nobody plays the perfect game. You’re wrong. UCLA has been hot for 5 games in a row. The shots they made are not difficult shots. The shots Gonzaga made several feet beyond the arc are. Zags were lucky to win.

Gonzaga was lucky to win and UCLA was lucky to be that close. Both can be true.

If they played again tomorrow, there's a strong chance that UCLA loses by 10+.
 
I picking Baylor because their guards are better defensively than Gonzaga's. Mitchell is a lock down defender who won DPOY in the Big 12 and his running mates aren't bad either. Also all of them can stroke it from the 3 point line but Gonzaga has the advantage in the paint. It's going to be a good one, that's for damn sure.
 
Gonzaga is a downhill team...

UCLA tried to slow that down but really couldn't. They did make up for it by hitting a lot of "bad" shots.

Gonzaga did get downhill with their guards but with that and the lack of live ball turnovers they couldn't take the game over.


We will see with Baylor...

Gonzaga does have an advantage on Baylor.
You want to attack Baylor before the defense is set. Oklahoma State showed this.

Gonzaga does this very well with their guards.

But Baylor's offense is better than UCLAs.
Baylor should be able to score at a very high level. I just don't see Gonzaga giving them too many issues .

The question becomes....

Does Baylor become the downhill team.


Because they take over games. Their runs happen and it is on both sides of the floor.
Gonzaga has to be very careful about allowing Baylor going on 15-2 runs
 
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UCLA beat the SEC Champs; they beat the Big Ten Champs. They took the #1 team to overtime. They're not a fluke. They're are a legitimate power.

They lost a buzzer-beater to Stanford; they lost another buzzer-beater to USC. They were winning both games in the final seconds. They were literally two buzzer-beaters away from winning the Pac-12 outright, arguably the best conference in the nation. Don't be fooled by the number 11 next to the school name, this is without question a top 10 team.

agree ucla and most the pac was 5-6 seeds above their seeding

uSC was a 3
UCLA was a 4
Oregon was a 5
 
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Suggs is a very good defender....Not to mention, Gonzaga is 8th in KenPoms AdjD. I wouldn't call them soft...

Riley is the "average" big you mean----He had a good night. Hit some jumpers he normally does not make. His 14/10 was nice....But the kid did average 10/6 for the year. So its not like he came out of nowhere...

Baylors guards are vicious...And makes their defense go. But Baylors interior defense is where they have some issues...And Gonzaga with Timme can certainly exploit that.

Not to overlook, is the size of Baylors guards----6'2, 6'2" and 6'4"----Kispert is 6'7"....Suggs at 6'4", and Ayayi at 6'5...They can see over the pressure---post up Baylor's smaller guards.

This game is a toss-up...But cannot keep overlooking GU's defense. Its rated Top 10 for a reason.

Baylor's interior defense?

Baylor's issue is lackadaisical play at times.
They haven't played a complete game yet. They even started to coast in against Houston.

The biggest issue for Baylor is that Mayer and Vital cannot be combined.
Mayer is energy. When he is on the court their offensive efficiency increases.
But he isn't the defender that Vital is. Vital is a bully. Going to push people around. Actually had a bad game against Houston. But were able to keep Houston off the offensive boards.

On the opposite side Vital can clog driving lanes. When he is on the perimeter looks out of place. Even with playing with Butler for awhile it is hard for him to visualize what Butler it even Mitchell are about to do...


Gonzaga is an energy team who sets the tone.
They do this by their extremely efficient Offense and creating turnovers.

Baylor could be the team who sets the tone
They did this against Arkansas

Gonzaga has to be very concern with an early knock out punch. .


Suggs is a freshman...

Suggs has tremendous upside and will be one hell of a NBA player

Suggs is a freshman

Butler, Teague and Mitchell are not.


In 2015 I thought Memphis was going to beat Golden State

They almost did...Draymond Green made sure that didn't happen. He matched the physicality of Memphis.

I know this isn't a 7 game series...Wish it was.

One of those games were you want to take the more defensive oriented team.

Nothing against Gonzaga.
I don't see a Green on their roster. This is College and not the NBA.
 
Gonzaga just looks like a well oiled machine to me despite the close game Saturday.
 
Remember the Illinois game to start the season...

Illinois was trying to do whatever they could to win the game.


Maybe it was Adam Miller. He ripped the ball from Mitchell's hand. Treated him like a little b...

Drew called a TO. Baylor came out on a 20-5 run. Just took over the game....


Same thing with Villanova.

Believe it was Samuels. Power dunked the ball. Villanova was up by 6-7.

Baylor just took over the rest of the game. Villanova couldn't do anything on the offensive end.

Weird team. They respond to adversity in places where a lot of teams melt.

I have only seen Baylor 3 times this entire year look to jump on teams early and play with a high level on intensity.

The Texas game
Elite 8 vs Arkansas
Final 4 vs Houston

That Villanova game it just clicked in..
People thought it was funny when I told them they someone was going to come out of that game with big balls.
Just so happened to be Baylor...
 
Baylor just waxed the floor with zags

thank god. I’m not denying Gonzaga is elite now. They’re clearly a top 5...probably even top 2 or 3 program in the current landscape of college basketball. But it’s frustrating how easy a path they have to a 1 seed every year now.

I respect the fact that they try to make up for it in the non conference, and it’s not their fault the conference they’re in at this point. But the WCC gets 3 teams in the tourney in a good year. The worst power 5 conferences rarely get less than 4. And nearly 2/3rds of Gonzaga schedule every season ends up being against the bottom half of division 1.

A 1 seed has won close to 70% of the championships since the field expanded to 64 teams back in the 80’s. Having the easiest path to a 1 seed every year is a huge advantage. They’re benefitting massively from the lack of balance in cbb.

And ultimately that’s going to be true for any mid major that can emerge as a perennial power house.
 
thank god. I’m not denying Gonzaga is elite now. They’re clearly a top 5...probably even top 2 or 3 program in the current landscape of college basketball. But it’s frustrating how easy a path they have to a 1 seed every year now.

I respect the fact that they try to make up for it in the non conference, and it’s not their fault the conference they’re in at this point. But the WCC gets 3 teams in the tourney in a good year. The worst power 5 conferences rarely get less than 4. And nearly 2/3rds of Gonzaga schedule every season ends up being against the bottom half of division 1.

A 1 seed has won close to 70% of the championships since the field expanded to 64 teams back in the 80’s. Having the easiest path to a 1 seed every year is a huge advantage. They’re benefitting massively from the lack of balance in cbb.

And ultimately that’s going to be true for any mid major that can emerge as a perennial power house.

Exactly! Both sides of the argument can be simultaneously true. Gonzaga is really really good AND Gonzaga has an easier path to a 1 seed every year than any major conference team. I respect that they play and beat major conference teams in the non-conference but that is nowhere near the same thing as playing a major conference schedule. The grind is just different.
 
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Middling and bottom feeding conf foes give real challenges to the top teams. Especially in a "normal" year where large crowds make road games really difficult. Gonzaga avoids that grind, no fault of their own. Just a lot less adversity thrown at them for an entire year.
 
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