Are Student Athletes employees?

[lurkeraspect84]

Judge denies NCAA's dismissal from case seeking to have athletes declared school employees

While some schools are dismissed from suit, Notre Dame, Duke, Oregon, Purdue and Arizona will be added as defendants alongside the NCAA.

www.usatoday.com

A federal judge in Pennsylvania on Wednesday denied the NCAA’s request for dismissal of a lawsuit that seeks to have Division I athletes classified as employees of their schools who are entitled to hourly wages.

The ruling was the second in four weeks in which U.S. District Judge John R. Padova refused to dismiss the NCAA from the case. In the first, Padova ruled that lawyers for the plaintiffs had met the basic standard of plausibly alleging that athletes “are employees … for purposes of the” Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA).

This suit is grounded in the plaintiffs’ contention that athletes should be treated as employees because, among other factors:

► Athletes are required to participate in certain activities.

► The hours that they spend on those activities are recorded on time sheets because of the NCAA’s limits on the number of hours athletes are supposed to required to spend on their sports each week.

► The schools exercise significant control over the athletes, through various rules and handbooks.

 

[JimboBBN]

I was all for kids making money on their names and image, but I think this is too far.

 

[cdbearde]

I was all for kids making money on their names and image, but I think this is too far.

I am worried where this could take my favorite sport. It could destroy what I have enjoyed for years.

 

[Afamu]

No

 

[JimboBBN]

I am worried where this could take my favorite sport. It could destroy what I have enjoyed for years.

College basketball as we know it is already gone. NIL could actually help keep kids in school, if anything. But I don't think we should be paying kids like they are working.

 

[WeAreDePaul]

you have to pay employees so this would be a way to get money to everyone on the team, not just the stars who make $$ on NIL's. It would also open the door for workers comp claims if anyone got injured during their time at the university.

 

[toonces11]

I don't understand how this is just paying players to go to a certain school. Can't Bama just lure a recruit away by telling them they have 6 and 7 figure NIL deals waiting for them if they sign?

 

[Random UK Fan]

There should be an option of education in exchange for a scholarship, or play ball and be paid. Not both. They currently get all three. The degree will pay off longer then whatever money they make as an amateur giving the scholarship some actual value.

 

[WeAreDePaul]

There should be an option of education in exchange for a scholarship, or play ball and be paid. Not both. They currently get all three. The degree will pay off longer then whatever money they make as an amateur giving the scholarship some actual value.

a 4 year degree is barely worth the paper it's printed on.

 

[Random UK Fan]

a 4 year degree is barely worth the paper it's printed on.

Sadly, that’s true. It’s not worth what it used to be.

 

[Villian07]

College basketball as we know it is already gone. NIL could actually help keep kids in school, if anything. But I don't think we should be paying kids like they are working.

I dont much think NIL is exactly fair(between the players themseves, not talking about between diff programs), esp with the females, their looks are wayyyy more important than their stats.

I wish they had done something to make it a “fair” system for lack of a better word, where all scholarship players have to split the NIL $$$ or something. I just thibk its a recipe for disaster if you got 1-2 kids raking in lots of nil$$ while the rest of the roster isnt. Cant be good for team chemistry unless the 1-2 stars arent total divas/assholes

Idk, i jist look at our womens bball team and Hailey van Lith might make half a million dollars(speculation) bc shes attractive and has a ton of instagram followers, where as her teammates might not make 10k.(guessing)

It just so happens shes one of our best players, but even if she wasnt shed still be attractive and have lots of instagram followers and likely have lots of nil $$ still. Just feel like it cant be good for team chemistry, but obv just speculation.

Guess thats only a problem for the womens sports though.

 

[JimboBBN]

I dont much think NIL is exactly fair(between the players themseves, not talking about between diff programs), esp with the females, their looks are wayyyy more important than their stats.

I wish they had done something to make it a “fair” system for lack of a better word, where all scholarship players have to split the NIL $$$ or something. I just thibk its a recipe for disaster if you got 1-2 kids raking in lots of nil$$ while the rest of the roster isnt. Cant be good for team chemistry unless the 1-2 stars arent total divas/assholes

Idk, i jist look at our womens bball team and Hailey van Lith might make half a million dollars(speculation) bc shes attractive and has a ton of instagram followers, where as her teammates might not make 10k.(guessing)

It just so happens shes one of our best players, but even if she wasnt shed still be attractive and have lots of instagram followers and likely have lots of nil $$ still. Just feel like it cant be good for team chemistry, but obv just speculation.

Guess thats only a problem for the womens sports though.

That's not how capitalism works, my friend. If you have 2 or 3 kids that are bringing the most attention and rewards to the team, then they should be compensated as such. Should Brad Calipari be compensated as well as Anthony Davis? You know the answer.

 

[Villian07]

I mean your absolutely right, i just think it could create internal problems within the locker room, from a “team” perspective. But your absolutely right as far as capitalism and the best players “deserve” more than the kids that arent even in the rotation.

Plus i dont really have a solution to what i perceive as a potential problem. Maybe a flat NIL salary for everyone on the team, then the stars can get as much as they want outside of that. Idk i just see a tonya harding scenario playing out somewhere down the line. But that might jist be the paranoia/crazy in me.

 

[WeAreDePaul]

Idk, i jist look at our womens bball team and Hailey van Lith might make half a million dollars(speculation) bc shes attractive and has a ton of instagram followers, where as her teammates might not make 10k.(guessing)

you're an asshole for not posting a pic with this.

 

[Bert Higginbotha]

At Kentucky they are employees.

At KU, Duke, UNC, IU, UCLA, UF, AZ, UT, MN, UConn, St. Johns, ND, et.al. They are young men trying to make a living.

 

[GE Nole]

I dont much think NIL is exactly fair(between the players themseves, not talking about between diff programs), esp with the females, their looks are wayyyy more important than their stats.

I wish they had done something to make it a “fair” system for lack of a better word, where all scholarship players have to split the NIL $$$ or something. I just thibk its a recipe for disaster if you got 1-2 kids raking in lots of nil$$ while the rest of the roster isnt. Cant be good for team chemistry unless the 1-2 stars arent total divas/assholes

Idk, i jist look at our womens bball team and Hailey van Lith might make half a million dollars(speculation) bc shes attractive and has a ton of instagram followers, where as her teammates might not make 10k.(guessing)

It just so happens shes one of our best players, but even if she wasnt shed still be attractive and have lots of instagram followers and likely have lots of nil $$ still. Just feel like it cant be good for team chemistry, but obv just speculation.

Guess thats only a problem for the womens sports though.

But isn’t that how life works? Some people have better jobs or higher pay or a fancier car or whatever than others?

 

[GE Nole]

Judge denies NCAA's dismissal from case seeking to have athletes declared school employees

While some schools are dismissed from suit, Notre Dame, Duke, Oregon, Purdue and Arizona will be added as defendants alongside the NCAA.

www.usatoday.com

A federal judge in Pennsylvania on Wednesday denied the NCAA’s request for dismissal of a lawsuit that seeks to have Division I athletes classified as employees of their schools who are entitled to hourly wages.

The ruling was the second in four weeks in which U.S. District Judge John R. Padova refused to dismiss the NCAA from the case. In the first, Padova ruled that lawyers for the plaintiffs had met the basic standard of plausibly alleging that athletes “are employees … for purposes of the” Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA).

This suit is grounded in the plaintiffs’ contention that athletes should be treated as employees because, among other factors:

► Athletes are required to participate in certain activities.

► The hours that they spend on those activities are recorded on time sheets because of the NCAA’s limits on the number of hours athletes are supposed to required to spend on their sports each week.

► The schools exercise significant control over the athletes, through various rules and handbooks.

Have to admit, the detailed tracking of time, hours, etc. is a compelling perspective I had not considered before.

 

[Villian07]

But isn’t that how life works? Some people have better jobs or higher pay or a fancier car or whatever than others?

Yea ur right, i was just looking at it from a “team” prospective. Lets be honest, most people and their coworkers arent as tight knit as a team in any sport, imho.

 

[GE Nole]

Yea ur right, i was just looking at it from a “team” prospective. Lets be honest, most people and their coworkers arent as tight knit as a team in any sport, imho.

That’s very true.

But I’ll also say that I don’t think many pro teams are all that tight knit either. It’s just a job. Sure some of them might be friends, but it’s still just a business at the end of the day.

And even my college team…I had 2-3 really close friends. But even one of my roommates who was also a teammate, he and I were just more like colleagues than tight knit brothers. It wasn’t like high school, that’s for sure.

 

[Villian07]

^^^^ very good points 👍

 

[IUfanBorden]

Judge denies NCAA's dismissal from case seeking to have athletes declared school employees

While some schools are dismissed from suit, Notre Dame, Duke, Oregon, Purdue and Arizona will be added as defendants alongside the NCAA.

www.usatoday.com

A federal judge in Pennsylvania on Wednesday denied the NCAA’s request for dismissal of a lawsuit that seeks to have Division I athletes classified as employees of their schools who are entitled to hourly wages.

The ruling was the second in four weeks in which U.S. District Judge John R. Padova refused to dismiss the NCAA from the case. In the first, Padova ruled that lawyers for the plaintiffs had met the basic standard of plausibly alleging that athletes “are employees … for purposes of the” Fair Labor Standards Act (FLSA).

This suit is grounded in the plaintiffs’ contention that athletes should be treated as employees because, among other factors:

► Athletes are required to participate in certain activities.

► The hours that they spend on those activities are recorded on time sheets because of the NCAA’s limits on the number of hours athletes are supposed to required to spend on their sports each week.

► The schools exercise significant control over the athletes, through various rules and handbooks.

Why limit it to athletes? Why not all students that are on scholarship? MOF,why not all students? Schools make $$$ of every student that walks through their doors.

 

[IUfanBorden]

a 4 year degree is barely worth the paper it's printed on.

Meh....I mean sort of depends on what that degree is. Buddy of mine kinda of cruised through HS..Good grades. Not great. Crusied through college....Better grades, but not great. Got his degree is education. Started as a teacher/coach....He's now the athletic director, making about 90K a year

 

[IUfanBorden]

you have to pay employees so this would be a way to get money to everyone on the team, not just the stars who make $$ on NIL's. It would also open the door for workers comp claims if anyone got injured during their time at the university.

Which is another issue. Athletes are already taken care of if injured. So now athletes would be entitled to...

1. NLI money..
2. Full ride scholarships
3. Hourly wages
4. Insurance
5. Vacation time

JFC....Might have to try and go back to school....I can still hit and field it a bit..

 

[IUfanBorden]

To me, do this...

As an athlete if you are being compensated more than what your scholarship is worth, you forfeit such. Pay your own fuking way. Kid makes $100K, and is also getting a full-ride? No. Give that scholarship to the walk-0n who's family can barely afford to send their child to said school.

Shits getting dumb.

 

[WeAreDePaul]

Which is another issue. Athletes are already taken care of if injured. So now athletes would be entitled to...

1. NLI money..
2. Full ride scholarships
3. Hourly wages
4. Insurance
5. Vacation time

JFC....Might have to try and go back to school....I can still hit and field it a bit..

Vacation time? Let’s not go overboard here.

Also, how are athletes already taken care of if injured? I’m talking about in terms of compensation for injuries that leave the athlete with a permanent impairment.

 

[WeAreDePaul]

Meh....I mean sort of depends on what that degree is. Buddy of mine kinda of cruised through HS..Good grades. Not great. Crusied through college....Better grades, but not great. Got his degree is education. Started as a teacher/coach....He's now the athletic director, making about 90K a year

Citing a guy who climbed to the top of his field and makes 90k doesn’t really refute my point.

 

[IUfanBorden]

Citing a guy who climbed to the top of his field and makes 90k doesn’t really refute my point.

Being an AD isn't the top of his field... And look, we are talking about a very low percentage of these athletes making big money. So dismissing the importance of an education is quite silly. These new guidelines were not set in place for the 7th dude off the bench, or the 3rd string QB.

 

[IUfanBorden]

Vacation time? Let’s not go overboard here.

Also, how are athletes already taken care of if injured? I’m talking about in terms of compensation for injuries that leave the athlete with a permanent impairment.

Whoa, you are calling my statement going overboard? I mean if athletes are considered full-timeemployee's,by law they are entitled to the benefits afforded to full-time employee's. So what type of an employee they are considered will be key. And speaking of workers comp---You know how expensive that would be for a school? You are talking about hundreds of athletes. Who get dinged almost every day....Plus, workers comp is shit. If a 1st round lock is hurt with a career ending injury, workers comp ain't gonna come close to compensating him for what he could have made.

 

[UL_1986]

a 4 year degree is barely worth the paper it's printed on.

Depends on the degree, but yes.

 

[IUfanBorden]

Depends on the degree, but yes.

Agree, to an extent. I encouraged my son, his friends to learn a trade, i.e. HVAC, Plumbing, electrician, etc, etc....My step-son barely graduated HS. Worked here and there. Got a job as a plumbers asst. He's in his first full year, makes about $18hr, plus helping him gain his license. Even some younger dudes I've worked HS ball with, even low level college ball, I've encouraged them to pursue that as well. There is big money in officiating.

Times have changed. Lot of other avenues to make a good living.

 

[cwobrien11]

you have to pay employees so this would be a way to get money to everyone on the team, not just the stars who make $$ on NIL's. It would also open the door for workers comp claims if anyone got injured during their time at the university.

Sure, sure.

It also means that they’re responsible for taxes, insurance costs, etc. Plus it means that they probably start paying for room and board, tuition, books, etc. on top of losing COA stipends. But they’re getting paid by the schools so there is that.

At the end of the day though this is a net loss for student athletes who will think that it’s a win. It’s also going to kill most schools athletic programs. The hard costs will skyrocket whereas right now they can simply absorb a lot of costs (tuition, books, housing, etc.).

 

[GE Nole]

Why limit it to athletes? Why not all students that are on scholarship? MOF,why not all students? Schools make $$$ of every student that walks through their doors.

I’m not quite sure what you’re saying here. Why not all students what?

 

[GE Nole]

To me, do this...

As an athlete if you are being compensated more than what your scholarship is worth, you forfeit such. Pay your own fuking way. Kid makes $100K, and is also getting a full-ride? No. Give that scholarship to the walk-0n who's family can barely afford to send their child to said school.

Shits getting dumb.

What about non-athletes who get more in scholarship money and/or NIL or earned money than tuition and room and board costs?

Should they have to give back their scholarship too?

 

[coryfly]

At Kentucky they are employees.

At KU, Duke, UNC, IU, UCLA, UF, AZ, UT, MN, UConn, St. Johns, ND, et.al. They are young men trying to make a living.

Aren't 18 and 19 year old employees just young men trying to make a living?

 

[Villian07]

a 4 year degree is barely worth the paper it's printed on.

Mines done me nothing but it was just badtimin mixed with bad decision making. Still you learn more about a job in a month doing it, than you do in four years of college anyways imo

Still worth it bc of how much fun i had and i was on academic scholly anyways.

 

[UL_1986]

Agree, to an extent. I encouraged my son, his friends to learn a trade, i.e. HVAC, Plumbing, electrician, etc, etc....My step-son barely graduated HS. Worked here and there. Got a job as a plumbers asst. He's in his first full year, makes about $18hr, plus helping him gain his license. Even some younger dudes I've worked HS ball with, even low level college ball, I've encouraged them to pursue that as well. There is big money in officiating.

Times have changed. Lot of other avenues to make a good living.

For sure. A trade is always a great route to go imo. I went to college and loved it personally, thought it was very beneficial. Though I feel like lots of younger people entering college are doing so because it’s become so normal, and a lot of the time they have no drive to take it seriously or make strides. It’s just “let’s get through this so I can get this piece of paper”.

 

[Afamu]

Citing a guy who climbed to the top of his field and makes 90k doesn’t really refute my point.

You are nothing but a Dick. My kids finance degree has him set up perfectly. Maybe your degree sucks or is worthless but I guess your shouldn’t have majored in sociology.

 

[Afamu]

Citing a guy who climbed to the top of his field and makes 90k doesn’t really refute my point.

Yeah it does.

 

[WeAreDePaul]

You are nothing but a Dick. My kids finance degree has him set up perfectly. Maybe your degree sucks or is worthless but I guess your shouldn’t have majored in sociology.

My BA is worthless. My JD, on the other hand, has allowed me to buy a lot of cool stuff.

 

[toonces11]

a 4 year degree is barely worth the paper it's printed on.

A 4 yr degree with purpose is def worth the paper its printed on. A general shit degree is worth less than the paper its printed on---it has negative value.