Abandoning Big East has become a disaster for one-time powerhouses

Noahtogo24

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Jan 6, 2015
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t’s clear who the breakup of the old Big East helped the most.

It’s obvious it created an opening for Villanova and Jay Wright to take over the new creation of the conference and become one of the true superpowers in college basketball, winning two national titles and the league’s regular- season crown six times in seven years.

Xavier, Creighton and Butler have benefited from joining a high-major, their recruiting and visibility skyrocketing.

What has gone somewhat unsaid are the teams that have been hurt the most since leaving the league in 2012. That haven’t been the same.

Syracuse, come on down. Pittsburgh, you know this includes you. Notre Dame, you’re included.

These were perennial tournament teams as members of the Big East. Programs that were annually in the top 25. Now? Not so much.

All three are unlikely to go dancing this year. Pittsburgh hasn’t reached the NCAA Tournament since 2016. Notre Dame is one of the worst teams in the ACC this year, 3-6 in the league even after Saturday’s upset of Pitt, and hasn’t reached the tournament since 2017. It has lost 28 straight games to ranked teams, a program record. Syracuse looks like an NIT team, owning just a single top-100 victory, and has averaged just 20.1 wins over the last six years.

–– ADVERTISEMENT ––




They all went from the upper-echelon of the Big East to second-class citizens in the ACC, the other guys after North Carolina, Virginia and Duke. Recruiting has been poor. Notre Dame has the highest-rated recruiting class of the three for next year, and it is 51st according to 247Sports. Since the three joined the ACC in 2013, they have had three top-20 classes. Notre Dame was 15th in 2018 and Syracuse was eighth in 2013 and 2015.
https://nypost.com/2021/01/31/freshmen-keep-st-johns-rolling-with-win-over-marquette/

Compare that to where the programs were before leaving the Big East. Syracuse had reached five straight tournaments and back-to-back Elite Eights. Pittsburgh had won at least 20 games 11 years in a row, making the Dance 10 of those seasons. Notre Dame went to the tournament six of seven years.

The struggles of these teams can’t be solely attached to going from the Big East to the ACC of course. Pittsburgh hiring Kevin Stallings after letting Jamie Dixon leave for TCU in 2016 set the program back several years. Jeff Capel has shown progress in each of his three seasons, and should at least have the Panthers in the NIT this year.

At Syracuse, losing Mike Hopkins to Washington has negatively impacted recruiting. Coach Jim Boeheim is 76 years old. He was going to slow down at some point.

The situation at Notre Dame isn’t as simple. There was no coaching change. The Irish reached back-to-back regional finals in their second and third years in the ACC, but have fallen off significantly since then. This looks like it will be their third straight year missing the tournament, though last year’s team was in position to make it if there was a tournament.

If they had to do it again, Syracuse and Pittsburgh almost certainly leave because of the football money. Notre Dame, whose football program has remained independent, may not have.

The basketball programs can only look at their present predicament and wonder where they would be if they had remained in the Big East.
 

954gator

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Jul 21, 2007
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t’s clear who the breakup of the old Big East helped the most.

It’s obvious it created an opening for Villanova and Jay Wright to take over the new creation of the conference and become one of the true superpowers in college basketball, winning two national titles and the league’s regular- season crown six times in seven years.

Xavier, Creighton and Butler have benefited from joining a high-major, their recruiting and visibility skyrocketing.

What has gone somewhat unsaid are the teams that have been hurt the most since leaving the league in 2012. That haven’t been the same.

Syracuse, come on down. Pittsburgh, you know this includes you. Notre Dame, you’re included.

These were perennial tournament teams as members of the Big East. Programs that were annually in the top 25. Now? Not so much.

All three are unlikely to go dancing this year. Pittsburgh hasn’t reached the NCAA Tournament since 2016. Notre Dame is one of the worst teams in the ACC this year, 3-6 in the league even after Saturday’s upset of Pitt, and hasn’t reached the tournament since 2017. It has lost 28 straight games to ranked teams, a program record. Syracuse looks like an NIT team, owning just a single top-100 victory, and has averaged just 20.1 wins over the last six years.

–– ADVERTISEMENT ––




They all went from the upper-echelon of the Big East to second-class citizens in the ACC, the other guys after North Carolina, Virginia and Duke. Recruiting has been poor. Notre Dame has the highest-rated recruiting class of the three for next year, and it is 51st according to 247Sports. Since the three joined the ACC in 2013, they have had three top-20 classes. Notre Dame was 15th in 2018 and Syracuse was eighth in 2013 and 2015.
https://nypost.com/2021/01/31/freshmen-keep-st-johns-rolling-with-win-over-marquette/

Compare that to where the programs were before leaving the Big East. Syracuse had reached five straight tournaments and back-to-back Elite Eights. Pittsburgh had won at least 20 games 11 years in a row, making the Dance 10 of those seasons. Notre Dame went to the tournament six of seven years.

The struggles of these teams can’t be solely attached to going from the Big East to the ACC of course. Pittsburgh hiring Kevin Stallings after letting Jamie Dixon leave for TCU in 2016 set the program back several years. Jeff Capel has shown progress in each of his three seasons, and should at least have the Panthers in the NIT this year.

At Syracuse, losing Mike Hopkins to Washington has negatively impacted recruiting. Coach Jim Boeheim is 76 years old. He was going to slow down at some point.

The situation at Notre Dame isn’t as simple. There was no coaching change. The Irish reached back-to-back regional finals in their second and third years in the ACC, but have fallen off significantly since then. This looks like it will be their third straight year missing the tournament, though last year’s team was in position to make it if there was a tournament.

If they had to do it again, Syracuse and Pittsburgh almost certainly leave because of the football money. Notre Dame, whose football program has remained independent, may not have.

The basketball programs can only look at their present predicament and wonder where they would be if they had remained in the Big East.
Shits rough in the ACC don’t care if they seem down.
 

EvilMonkeyInTheCloset

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Feb 25, 2008
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Shits rough in the ACC don’t care if they seem down.
Well, long term, the wholesale athletics move has not benefitted schools like Pitt and Syracuse.

Yes, Syracuse and Notre Dame have been competitive at times since they joined, but they are now also-rans in basketball basically trading one bloated conference for another.

One thing that's helping the Big East is that it's back to just the right size. It isn't oversaturated with programs looking for that big conference hand-out. And yes, that's about the only thing about Rutgers going to the Big Ten that's a positive.

The Big East needed to trim fat, but didn't need to fold it's basketball operations completely.

Syracuse can compete in the ACC in basketball. But they've always felt out of place. Pittsburgh and Boston College too. As for Notre Dame, they'll always feel out of place if they're not in the Big Ten.

It probably would've made sense for them to join the Big East when it shifted to being a private school league and schools like Creighton and Butler joined. But that goes back to my point about a program looking for that big conference clout.
 
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SheriffBufordTJustice

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Aug 17, 2018
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In the minds of the ignorant
Disagree on ND

Talking Football Here

Boston
California
Pennsylvania
New York
Chicago

5 most important places for fans

For talent
California
Texas
Georgia
Florida

California gives ND the best of both worlds
Used to be PA as well but talent declined in Western PA
ND vs Pitt in Football used to be a huge game
They have a minor rivarly with Boston College

ND is always going to make their decision based on football.

ACC makes sense because it gives them the best of both worlds

Northeastern cities combine with talent rich areas in the South
If they had USC in there as well it would be perfect
 
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EvilMonkeyInTheCloset

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Feb 25, 2008
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Disagree on ND

Talking Football Here

Boston
California
Pennsylvania
New York
Chicago

5 most important places for fans

For talent
California
Texas
Georgia
Florida

California gives ND the best of both worlds
Used to be PA as well but talent declined in Western PA
ND vs Pitt in Football used to be a huge game
They have a minor rivarly with Boston College

ND is always going to make their decision based on football.

ACC makes sense because it gives them the best of both worlds

Northeastern cities combine with talent rich areas in the South
If they had USC in there as well it would be perfect
You forgot Iowa as the most important place in America.
 

EvilMonkeyInTheCloset

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Feb 25, 2008
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Wasn't Howard Jones the coach at Iowa before USC
Somewhat hazy here about the history. But wasn't ND playing Iowa and then Jones told them to follow him out West.
They replaced Iowa with USC
Well, off the record you're old so I can understand how you'd get your timelines confused. SmokinSmile

On the record, since we have to be serious here, you're wrong.

Notre Dame played Iowa consistently up until the mid 60s. Their rivalry with USC had already been well-established decades prior.

Jones might've played a part in establishing the rivalry, but not at Iowa's expense.
 

SheriffBufordTJustice

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Aug 17, 2018
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In the minds of the ignorant
Well, off the record you're old so I can understand how you'd get your timelines confused. SmokinSmile

On the record, since we have to be serious here, you're wrong.

Notre Dame played Iowa consistently up until the mid 60s. Their rivalry with USC had already been well-established decades prior.

Jones might've played a part in establishing the rivalry, but not at Iowa's expense.

Knew it was one of those schools around there.
But it was Nebraska.

I think at this time not too many Big Ten schools were scheduling ND.
PAC wasn't either until USC crossed the line.
The story was that ND wasn't a good enough academic school to associate with.
USC said screw it.
 

Tash123

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Jan 8, 2005
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Knew it was one of those schools around there.
But it was Nebraska.

I think at this time not too many Big Ten schools were scheduling ND.
PAC wasn't either until USC crossed the line.
The story was that ND wasn't a good enough academic school to associate with.
USC said screw it.
Weird this is the battle you're fighting tonight, when there is a thread about Texas hoops tonight where you've said nothing. Aren't you one of them?
 
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Tash123

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I just don't know really know who you are.
If I at one time said something to upset you...Need to get over it.
Funny that some rando posting to me.
Not shocking you wear the "Deflection Suit" well. Always bigger and better in Texas. lol
 

Tash123

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Jan 8, 2005
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Real talk here, rando
Next time just tag me. You are ruining this thread because I said something that hurt your feelings.
You are disrespecting this man's topic
I've never seen so many words typed only to keep deflecting. Sad.
 

Villian07

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Aug 11, 2015
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Glad we avoided the article, but we haven’t been much gangbusters since leaving either.

I guess a title the first year you leavebuys you some leeway.

but it’s not like these programs had much of a choice, sans ND I guess. Football drives the bus and big East football is extinct.