A Mod can't handle the UCFacts - Which everyone wants to discuss

Discussion in 'College Baseball Clubhouse' started by UCFhonors, Oct 7, 2018.

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Will UCF host the ESP5N Cartel’s College Gameday this year?

  1. Yes

    12 vote(s)
    16.7%
  2. No

    53 vote(s)
    73.6%
  3. Idk, I’m a tshirt bandwagoner

    2 vote(s)
    2.8%
  4. I’m an Uncle Rico who remembers cfb before College Gameday

    5 vote(s)
    6.9%
  1. DTP2

    DTP2 Well-Known Member
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    Again, what schedules are enough? At what point do G5 teams earn the right to demand H&H? How is it that when new teams join a league/sport elsewhere, the rules of the competition treat them the same as the those that were there at the beginning?
     
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  2. ALMDawgfan

    ALMDawgfan Well-Known Member
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    The Beauty of the Pageant IS the Competition at the level decided by those in the mix... Not by those who want to be in the mix... Period. Why aren't they out building their own?

    What you call manipulation can be as easily called maintaining standards... The Ivy League is the Ivy League and teams like Tulane and GaTech rue leaving leagues like the SEC because belatedly they found out the dearth that was out there.... South Carolina says "Hi"... There is a solid basis for why the INDEPENDENTS are dwindling away....

    Until a program brings some simbalance of parity to the table they will not be asked in.... Simple as that.

    The only real difference is they do not want to have to prove their way IN. They want it handed to them.
     
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  3. ALMDawgfan

    ALMDawgfan Well-Known Member
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    That would depend.... Mizzou and A&M moved in and were taken as equals.... Way back FSU proved out and came into, had a choice of in fact, an accepted Conference... "Subjective Beauty Pageant" and all.... Build the product and the Offers will come.... (The product is playing the names that will gain the exposure, fill your seats to building a stadium of size, and make TV happy...)
     
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  4. NotQyteNeo

    NotQyteNeo Well-Known Member
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    But, aside from OSU/Mich. I'd bet ND's big games are among the season's top money makers most years. But I see your point.
     
  5. DTP2

    DTP2 Well-Known Member
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    This is not true. They want a clear objective path for making the playoffs. Rules can be designed to make the path as challenging as P5 teams see fit.
     
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  6. NotQyteNeo

    NotQyteNeo Well-Known Member
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    More accurately - IMO - for comparing to Pitt/UCF would be something like Pitt/GT. That's what I was trying to say.
     
  7. SCKnight

    SCKnight Well-Known Member
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    Those things are not remotely connected. First, there is no "Bowden way" anymore. You know it, everybody knows it. That was done in the days before TV revenues began dictating policy. If you read my posts earlier I explain that the future of a program like UCF is building a fan base at home. Season ticket holders, donors and premium seating are sold and 5 home games a year does not cut it. No program can do that, and that has nothing to do with the price of a stadium or the ability to pay for it.

    Look i get it. Arrogance and condescension have been built into the system for years. So long in fact that people believe it to be normal. Pointing that out to everyone gets people angry. Getting a step ahead is a daunting task for UCF given the subjective nature and historic bias built into the CFP system. Every person in this thread KNOWS that 1. UCF would love to be in a bigger better conference and 2. UCF would love to schedule top level opponents. Period. They know it is true. They also know even when is able UCF schedules teams that there is not telling how good they will be when they finally play years later. That is a crap shoot. They know that the answer is not "schedule better teams" because they know it is not that simple. The system is designed to keep any g5 out period.
     
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  8. UofMinn

    UofMinn Well-Known Member
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    UCF and their fans are sad, plain and simple. Play teams like Memphis and Houston all year and expect to get respect. UCF is barely a top 25 team, much less a national title contender. Watching their fans meltdown is entertaining though, that’s for sure.
     
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  9. SCKnight

    SCKnight Well-Known Member
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    This might have been true once upon a time when conference championships mattered more than TV ratings. Now you can't build a product because the only product in truth is based upon the CFP.
     
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  10. NotQyteNeo

    NotQyteNeo Well-Known Member
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    There is a ceiling over G5 teams - no matter how much the ESP5N people won't admit it. The G5 can not be included in the BCS+2 for this one reason ... Their conference sxchedules will always be considered weak. And the P5 people admit, the only way to get the SOS needed is to be in a P5 conference. Which cannot happen.

    If UCF had played and dominated GT, UNC, and lets say Okie St (all three are average to slightly above FB programs). Then rolled through the AAC championship again, would it be good enough for BCS+2 consideration - nope. That much was made clear last year when everyone said Auburn would curbstomp UCF. Then, when UCF beat Auburn, everyone was like "So, it's just one game. you still play a weak conference schedule". This even after everyone said the same thing about Baylor, and that result did nothing to budge the ceiling.

    So the stipulation is - they must play a tougher conference(8-ish games) schedule. But the only 2 ways this can happen is:
    1. Join a P5 conference - which is not possible ... AT ALL
    2. Go independent, which is financially impossible for all except ND, BYU, and Army.

    Sooooo .... the net result is there's no chance for a G5 team to get into the BCS+2 - PERIOD.

    The P5 is telling the G5, "If you want to participate, you have to be at the party.". But the doors to the party are all closed and locked. Danny White knows this.
     
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  11. NotQyteNeo

    NotQyteNeo Well-Known Member
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    In all the other D1 sports, the rules are explicitly inclusive so the non power conferences have a shot - albeit, still a smaller one, but a shot nonetheless - to compete. And because of this, the non-power teams/conferences often win championships. This is why the P5 powers that be will never let that happen in FBS.

    Once that door is opened, it can't be closed.
     
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  12. Skyhawk48

    Skyhawk48 Well-Known Member
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    No luck on finding the GT/Pitt but did find PSU/Pitt
    2.0 3.286M PSU-PITT B1G, ACC 9/8, 8:00p ABC

    Thought this was interesting two win less teams

    (2.450M) NEB-NWSTN B1G 10/13, Noon ABC
     
  13. Nate505

    Nate505 Well-Known Member
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    The one thing I love about college football purists is they live the sport because it's not full of greedy NFL ****s, yet they also love the system that is based purely on financial interests.
     
  14. Nate505

    Nate505 Well-Known Member
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    Hahahahahaha....yeah sure. You mean the 2010/11 season right? No way they were going, even if they were undefeated.
     
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  15. Nate505

    Nate505 Well-Known Member
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    It's almost inspiring how these guys will defend a system that is comically rigged.
     
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  16. LO6IC

    LO6IC Well-Known Member
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    Just out of curiosity, have you noticed any correlations between viewers and networks?
     
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  17. NotQyteNeo

    NotQyteNeo Well-Known Member
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    My understanding is the big-4 networks usually pull in bigger audiences and therefore bigger dollar figures than events on cable.
     
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  18. Skyhawk48

    Skyhawk48 Well-Known Member
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    I am not doing a thesis on viewership just reporting the facts Ma'am.

    Now if you want to drill down it is well known that network broadcast will out number cable broadcasts. So let's compare in this case cable. What is interesting is your hated "Cartel" is the only one broadcasting UCF. Interesting is it not?


    246K) PITT-UCF ACC, AAC 9/29, 4:00p ESPNU versus the viewership of another ESPN broadcast.
    3.758M) MIZ-ALA SEC 10/13, 7:00p ESPN.
     
  19. Skyhawk48

    Skyhawk48 Well-Known Member
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    Yep addressed in prior post.
     
  20. bullg8r52

    bullg8r52 Well-Known Member
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    No, it's not why they can't fix their schedules.

    It is common sense and straight-forward that if a UCF or USF had even 2 top echelon teams on their schedule, they won those and their conference championship they'd be in a decent place for consideration, especially vs a 2-loss P5 champ. You don't have to make up a whole bunch of rules and reinvent the landscape to do that.

    People can whine and moan, play the victim, complain about economics and bitch about how unfair a system is...a system that is not going to change...or they can do something about it like I suggest above. Doing the former is not going to get them what they want, doing the latter might.
    They are absolutely connected. There is no crap shoot...Ohio State, Penn State, UGA, UF, Alabama, Auburn, LSU, FSU, USC, UCLA, Michigan, Texas, TAMU, Oklahoma, Va Tech, Tennessee, Wisky, Mich State, Oregon, Washington and a dozen other schools, they would get credit for. You think FSU wasn't paupers and UF wealthy when Bowden built that program? Bullshit. UCF has 4 OOC, use 2 of them for top-25 P5 and drop the H&H crap.

    If your future is building the fan base at home and you have to build a cupcake OOC to do so, that is your decision and your fault.

    The system is designed to put the best teams in, not keep the G5 out. If UCF won't the AAC and beat a couple of OOC top tier teams, they'd get consideration. Not a guarantee, because the SEC champ, PAC12 champ, B12 champ and ACC champ could be more deserving. But more than they get now. Do it or don't and cry about it.
     
  21. LO6IC

    LO6IC Well-Known Member
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    I get it, actually interpreting the work that you put in is above your mental capacity and your pay-grade (or social security check).

    I appreciate you leaving the qualitative analysis to the intellectuals.
     
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  22. bullg8r52

    bullg8r52 Well-Known Member
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    Disagree. GT, UNC, 2 OOC super-cupcakes and AAC. Probably right unless all the P5 imploded. But 2 OOC big boys, a P5 cupcake and the AAC, they would get consideration if the P5's were weak. But if you have 1-loss P5 champs like UF, Michigan, Oregon. and Clemson, they won't and don't deserve it.

    The only solution is expanding to 8 and having a charity seat for a G5. UCF is not going to drop the H&H requirement and there is no f'ing way at top 25ish program should ever agree to that. That is by design, UCF doesn't want to do what it takes, better to be a CFB SJW.
     
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  23. NotQyteNeo

    NotQyteNeo Well-Known Member
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    An undefeated G5 with strong OOC would still need a 2-loss P5 because of the perceived(so-called, IMO) difference in conference SOS. So that is a ceiling that can never be overcome.
     
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  24. Skyhawk48

    Skyhawk48 Well-Known Member
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    Example of what happens when you try to be nice to trash.

    As usual when you have nothing to refute or provide an articulate argument you resort to insults and demeaning comments.

    Breaking news it doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that when a team outdraws another by over 12,000% no one gives a tinkers dam about the wanna be.
     
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  25. DawginSC

    DawginSC Well-Known Member
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    People who watch division 3 football think it's great. You think G5 games are great.

    You're both in the minority with your opinions. If tons of people agreed with either of you... the schools would have huge ratings and be invited to the P5 conferences because of it.

    Your view of actual interest doesn't mesh with reality.
     
  26. NotQyteNeo

    NotQyteNeo Well-Known Member
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    In all the other D1 sports, the non-power teams with seasons like UCFs get their shot. They don't get charity. They get very low seeds and have steep uphill climbs. Most of the time they are one-and-done. but sometimes - more often than the odds would dictate - they win it all. That is the definition on earning it on the field/court.

    I don't expect a G5 team to get into a 4-team post-season. But if an 8-seed UCF went through a 1-seed Bama, a 4-seed OU/OSU, and a 2-seed Clemson/UGa, then hell yeah - they earned it.

    What's to be afraid of going to an 8-team playoff and giving a team like UCF - who has taken on and beaten all comers - a shot? Oh yeah - that's right - a team that has taken on and beaten all comers.
     
    1266 NotQyteNeo, Oct 23, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2018
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  27. LO6IC

    LO6IC Well-Known Member
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    RollLaugh
    My argument was in my question. A question that pretty much gave you the answer - but you're too dense to understand where I was going with it.

    But yes, continue trying to equate the viewership of the big 4 networks with cable networks and/or premium cable subscriptions.
     
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  28. SCKnight

    SCKnight Well-Known Member
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    Of course its a crapshoot. UNC was much better when we scheduled them. Pitt agreed as did Ga. Tech but neither of those teams are in your exclusive club. Texas backed out of our deal as did Miami. Stanford comes to town next year and who knows if they will be ranked or not. So it just depends what that team does that year as to whether the system will allow it as a good win. Of course if lowly UCF beats them then they are automatically demoted as far as quality. I am sure UCF would love to have any of the teams you name on their schedule but both parties have to agree and it has to make sense.

    Stop with the Bowden FSU BS. The things that made programs 40-50 years ago do not apply anymore. There were no 90 million dollar TV payouts, Million dollar coaches salaries, ESPN dictating matchup dates, times and locations. There were many independents, conference affiliation was not as important. It was a completely different animal. IF you can't see that then I don't know what to tell you.

    Your very last paragraph is the definition of excluding G5 teams period. There will never be a G5 schedule that can meet the criteria. Let alone one where the G5 program has to come in highly ranked from the years before (like undefeated two years in a row). The probability of all planets aligning is so close to zero, that it is not possible. The best that a G5 can hope for is a NY6 bowl, and UCF has done that twice in the last 5 years beating the Big 12 champs in the Fiesta Bowl and the SEC runner-ups in the Chic Fil A Bowl. But there is always an excuse why those matchups against some of the best teams in the nation that year are somehow not relevant to the argument. Why should UCF not try to beat down the door (Que the "you don't play anyone argument again" and circle around once more)
     
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  29. Skyhawk48

    Skyhawk48 Well-Known Member
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    Damn. Talk about window lickers. The 12,000% difference was two cable broadcasts.

    Now go back to table four they need more tea.
     
  30. SCKnight

    SCKnight Well-Known Member
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    You tell me the odds of what you say occurring. That is 1. UCF is able to schedule two OOC big boys in one season (and that those big boys are having a big boy year and are not having a Nebraska type year which UCF cannot control because they scheduled the game 4-5 years before) 2. That UCF beats both big boys (and that both big boys are not severely dinged for losing to lowly UCF) 3. UCF also gets a P5 Cupcake in the same season and wins 4. UCF goes undefeated in conference 5.) Ucf enters the season highly ranked (because this would also be necessary to climb high enough) probably requiring UCF to be undefeated the year before. Tell me that the above is not, in all practicality, impossible. If not impossible than so improbable as to make no difference. There is no access. Period.
     
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  31. bullg8r52

    bullg8r52 Well-Known Member
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    I agree with the bolded. If there are 4 1-loss P5 champs, the G5 is almost assuredly out and rightly so.

    The SOS difference would not in any way be a perception unless all members of a G5 conference like the AAC dramatically upgraded their OOC opponents. And, of course, performed well against those opponents.
     
  32. bullg8r52

    bullg8r52 Well-Known Member
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    I agree on the 8 team. NFW for a 70-80+ SOS in the 4 team.
     
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  33. DawginSC

    DawginSC Well-Known Member
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    Just for kicks... let's look at UCF vs ECU this past weekend on ESPN2 at 7:00. It had 486K viewers. The only ESPN2 game with worse viewership was Boise/Colorado state (also two G5 teams).

    Here are a list of games involving 2 P5 team that did worse:

    Week 4: Purdue vs BC (424K)


    That's it.

    For comparison the week before UCF's game... in the same timeslot on the same network... Miami vs UVA had 870K viewers. The week before that Auburn/MSU had 1.5 million.

    UCF's biggest number this year was their ESPN game at 7:00 in week 4 against FAU. 1.29 million viewers.
    the week before the ESPN game at 7:00 was Bama/Ole Miss. 4.1 million viewers. This past weekend it was 3.1 million (LSU/MSU).

    UCF clearly under performs their time slot compared to other games at at the same time on the same network.

    This is the peak of UCF football. Fan interest is at an all-time high. And they're comparable to... Purdue and Boston College? Below Miami and UVA?

    That should tell you enough to understand why you aren't getting invites to P5 conferences. People aren't interested.
     
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  34. LO6IC

    LO6IC Well-Known Member
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    You do realize that UCF had 2 of their games ranked in the top 10 best games of the season, right? Sorry you missed that.

    I take it there's not a single television show aired without your blessing since you obviously know what's best for people to be watching.
     
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  35. 285exp

    285exp Well-Known Member
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    If there is no FSU Way anymore, and there will never be a G5 schedule that will meet the criteria, then you're just wasting your time and ours with your constant whining. Grow up or shut up.
     
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  36. bullg8r52

    bullg8r52 Well-Known Member
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    You have to drop the H&H demand. That is designed to get you excluded.

    I won't stop with the Bowden rule. As I indicated, you can go to 2 OOC P5 and have 2 cupcakes at home. Put out an open invitation/challenge to the Big 25-30 schools...we have these dates in 2020 and these 15 teams (in my big list) have openings. We'll come to your place for the cupcake payments you made the prior year. Man up you P5'ers, or is the P for pussy?

    That's is something your SJW AD could tweet like he was POTUS, and he'd be right.

    But I get why he doesn't want to.
     
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  37. bullg8r52

    bullg8r52 Well-Known Member
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    1, 2, 3 and 4 are all possible if you want to. 5 is irrelevant.

    You are not owed inclusion, you are not owed somebody else making all that happen for you.
     
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  38. NotQyteNeo

    NotQyteNeo Well-Known Member
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    My problem with that second paragraph is this. IMO, the AAC is as good if not better than the PAC-12, the last 2 years(2017-2018). And this year - again. IMO - it is not far behind the ACC.

    You won't see me me pining for C-USA, MAC or the Sun-Belt. but in an 8-12 team playoff, the AAC and Mountain West should absolutely be included.
     
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  39. LO6IC

    LO6IC Well-Known Member
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    [​IMG]


    Basic cable includes ESPNU? Yeah...no. But you would have known that if you actually knew what you were talking about.

    Take a lap.
     
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  40. NotQyteNeo

    NotQyteNeo Well-Known Member
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    Now that I think about it, that's the thing that really bugs me the most. It should be the P5, N2("Next 2[AAC & MW]"), and G3(group of 3), not the G5 IMO.
     
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