150 Most Impactful Players of 2019-20

dukedevilz

Well-Known Member
Apr 3, 2002
4,920
6,234
113
Previously, I ranked a preseason top 150. Well, I decided to go ahead and create a postseason top 150. I'm sure I could re-tweak this, and make adjustments here and there. It's not perfect. But, it's close, IMO. The number in parenthesis shows where the player was ranked in the preseason. NR means "not ranked" in the preseason.

1. Obi Toppin, Dayton (90)
2. Luka Garza, Iowa (NR)
3. Payton Pritchard, Oregon (51)
4. Myles Powell, Seton Hall (2)
5. Markus Howard, Marquette (3)
6. Udoka Azubuike, Kansas (5)
7. Devon Dotson, Kansas (11)
8. Malachi Flynn, San Diego State (123)
9. Cassius Winston, Michigan State (1)
10. Vernon Carey, Duke (36)
11. Filip Petrusev, Gonzaga (NR)
12. Jared Butler, Baylor (43)
13. Jalen Smith, Maryland (8)
14. Jordan Nwora, Louisville (4)
15. Daniel Oturu, Minnesota (NR)
16. Tre Jones, Duke (12)
17. Mason Jones, Arkansas (NR)
18. Precious Achiuwa, Memphis (105)
19. Immanuel Quickley, Kentucky (NR)
20. Saddiq Bey, Villanova (NR)
21. Lamar Stevens, Penn State (14)
22. Sam Merrill, Utah State (19)
23. Jordan Ford, Saint Mary's (22)
24. Nick Richards, Kentucky (NR)
25. Ty-Shon Alexander, Creighton (72)
26. Onyeka Okongwu, USC (98)
27. Kamar Baldwin, Butler (49)
28. Anthony Cowan, Maryland (30)
29. Marcus Zegarowski, Creighton (NR)
30. Xavier Simpson, Michigan (26)
31. Devin Vassell, Florida State (NR)
32. Reggie Perry, Mississippi State (60)
33. Desmond Bane, TCU (48)
34. Yoeli Childs, BYU (39)
35. Ayo Dosunmu, Illinois (17)
36. Kristian Doolittle, Oklahoma (NR)
37. Remy Martin, Arizona State (113)
38. Elijah Hughes, Syracuse (75)
39. Naji Marshall, Xavier (NR)
40. Kira Lewis, Alabama (53)
41. John Mooney, Notre Dame (56)
42. Xavier Tillman, Michigan State (37)
43. Skylar Mays, LSU (34)
44. Kaleb Wesson, Ohio State (28)
45. Nathan Knight, William & Mary (84)
46. Jalen Crutcher, Dayton (136)
47. Alpha Diallo, Providence (44)
48. Tres Tinkle, Oregon State (21)
49. MaCio Teague, Baylor (NR)
50. Isaiah Stewart, Washington (29)
51. Samir Doughty, Auburn (119)
52. Mamadi Diakite, Virginia (41)
53. Zeke Nnaji, Arizona (NR)
54. Tyrese Haliburton, Iowa State (33)
55. Trent Forrest, Florida State (89)
56. Freddie Gillespie, Baylor (NR)
57. Terry Taylor, Austin Peay (59)
58. AJ Green, Northern Iowa (NR)
59. McKinley Wright IV, Colorado (46)
60. Anthony Edwards, Georgia (18)
61. Breein Tyree, Ole Miss (38)
62. Jahmi'us Ramsey, Texas Tech (NR)
63. Killian Tillie, Gonzaga (47)
64. Loren Jackson, Akron (NR)
65. Tyler Bey, Colorado (61)
66. Isaac Okoro, Auburn (NR)
67. Grant Riller, Charleston (76)
68. Paul Reed, DePaul (NR)
69. Marcus Garrett, Kansas (NR)
70. Tyrique Jones, Xavier (120)
71. Trayce Jackson-Davis, Indiana (NR)
72. Jake Toolson, BYU (NR)
73. Omer Yurtseven, Georgetown (32)
74. Fatts Russell, Rhode Island (NR)
75. Chris Smith, UCLA (NR)
76. Corey Kispert, Gonzaga (100)
77. Nico Mannion, Arizona (16)
78. Joe Wieskamp, Iowa (74)
79. Oscar Tshiebwe, West Virginia (NR)
80. Tyrese Maxey, Kentucky (20)
81. Collin Gillespie, Villanova (88)
82. Malik Fitts, Saint Mary's (93)
83. Garrison Brooks, UNC (94)
84. CJ Elleby, Washington State (NR)
85. Jalen Harris, Nevada (NR)
86. Jarron Cumberland, Cincinnati (9)
87. Kofi Cockburn, Illinois (NR)
88. Paul Atkindson, Yale (NR)
89. Nate Reuvers, Wisconsin (110)
90. Keyontae Johnson, Florida (NR)
91. Christian Vital, UConn (54)
92. Carlik Jones, Radford (NR)
93. Markell Johnson, NC State (71)
94. Jonah Radebaugh, Northern Colorado (NR)
95. Quincy McKnight, Seton Hall (NR)
96. Austin Wiley, Auburn (NR)
97. Kihei Clark, Virginia (NR)
98. John Petty, Alabama (NR)
99. Matt Coleman, Texas (92)
100. Oscar Da Silva, Stanford (NR)
101. Jacob Gilyard, Richmond (NR)
102. Mitch Ballock, Creighton (58)
103. Brady Manek, Oklahoma (140)
104. Jose Alvarado, Georgia Tech (NR)
105. Nick Muszynski, Belmont (91)
106. Jayden Gardner, East Carolina (NR)
107. Cole Anthony, UNC (6)
108. Cameron Krutwig, Loyola Chicago (144)
109. Tyler Hagedorn, South Dakota (NR)
110. Geo Baker, Rutgers (NR)
111. Sandro Mamukelashvili, Seton Hall (NR)
112. AJ Brodeur, Penn (131)
113. D'Mitrik Trice, Wisconsin (150)
114. Aamir Sims, Clemson (NR)
115. Saben Lee, Vanderbilt (NR)
116. Marreon Jackson, Toledo (NR)
117. Marcus Carr, Minnesota (NR)
118. Jordan Roland, Northeastern (NR)
119. Cassius Stanley, Duke (127)
120. Ashton Hagans, Kentucky (45)
121. Dwayne Sutton, Louisville (114)
122. Timmy Allen, Utah (NR)
123. Javonte Smart, LSU (116)
124. Neemias Queta, Utah State (55)
125. Anthony Lamb, Vermont (24)
126. Jeremiah Robinson-Earl, Villanova (57)
127. Trevion Williams, Purdue (77)
128. John Fulkerson, Tennessee (NR)
129. Colbey Ross, Pepperdine (82)
130. Jhivvan Jackson, UTSA (NR)
131. Olivier Sarr, Wake Forest (NR)
132. Matt Bradley, California (NR)
133. Tre Scott, Cincinnati (NR)
134. Davide Moretti, Texas Tech (52)
135. Nate Hinton, Houston (NR)
136. Jaime Echenique, Wichita State (NR)
137. Jordan Goodwin, Saint Louis (NR)
138. Xavier Sneed, Kansas State (85)
139. Jon Teske, Michigan (98)
140. Isaac Likekele, Oklahoma State (NR)
141. Desure Buie, Hofstra (NR)
142. Andrew Nembhard, Florida (23)
143. Tray Boyd III, East Tennesssee State (NR)
144. Jermaine Marrow, Hampton (112)
145. Will Richardson, Oregon (NR)
146. Marcus Santos-Silva, VCU (NR)
147. Martins Igbanu, Tulsa (NR)
148. Shamarkus Kennedy, McNeese State (NR)
149. Kerry Blackshear, Florida (13)
150. Justin Turner, Bowling Green (NR)
 

GE Nole

Well-Known Member
Sep 12, 2005
27,248
10,685
113
You did a nice job. Really did the top 15 well. Just learn to stay away from them UF boys.
 
  • Like
Reactions: dukedevilz

hailtoyourvictor

Well-Known Member
Gold Member
Dec 11, 2012
24,984
11,449
113
Simpson too low. I don't feel like re-doing these but this were stats compared to PGs ranked a lot higher than him in early March:

Player / PPG / APG / RPG / 3PT% / FG% / Kenpom SOS

Jones / 16.1 / 6.3 / 4.3 / 34.7% / 43.3% / 47
Dotson / 18.2 / 4.0 / 3.9 / 30.4% / 47.2% / 3
Howard / 27.6 / 3.3 / 3.3 / 40.5% / 42.2% / 21
Pritchard / 20.2 / 5.4 / 4.3 / 40.5% / 46.1% / 36
Flynn / 17.6 / 5.1 / 4.4 / 37.2% / 44.7% / 107
Winston / 18.5 / 5.8 / 2.5 / 42.5% / 43.4% / 10
Simpson / 13.0 / 7.9 / 4.5 / 35.0% / 47.6% / 2



If those others are are 3, 5, 7, 8, 9, and 16th then Simpson should be higher than 30th.
 

WeAreDePaul

Well-Known Member
Gold Member
Dec 5, 2017
2,047
2,021
113
I'll only comment for now about my two teams. I think you really missed the boat on LSU and DePaul. Skyler Mays is not the 34th best player in the country. And Javonta Smart is not 116. If anything, those two should be reversed as Smart is about 2x the player that Mays is. Mays sucks.

As for DePaul I'm not surprised you forgot about us since we barely exist, but you really dropped the ball on Paul Reed. Junior big man, he was Big East most improved player last year. Led the Big east in rebounding. in the post season he averaged 18/10 in the CBI. This summer in their 2020 mock, NBA draft had him going 36th overall!

Cmon DD, you really gonna tell me a guy who is projected as a possible high second round pick and who just won Bigeast most improved can't find a spot in your top 50 let alone your top 150?????


***********************************

Those were my comments from your pre-season poll. I was wrong about Smart/Mays as Mays was clearly better than him this year, but I was right about Paul Reed. You really did drop the ball on him this year.

Don't let that happen again the next time DePaul has a top 50 player which will probably be in another 15-20 years.
 

dukedevilz

Well-Known Member
Apr 3, 2002
4,920
6,234
113
You did a nice job. Really did the top 15 well. Just learn to stay away from them UF boys.
lol yeah, Florida was wildly disappointing. Blackshear was a 2nd Team All-ACC selection and his production suffered significantly; Scottie Lewis and Nembhard were both 5-star recruits, and they were nothing special.
 

dukedevilz

Well-Known Member
Apr 3, 2002
4,920
6,234
113
Simpson too low. I don't feel like re-doing these but this were stats compared to PGs ranked a lot higher than him in early March:

Player / PPG / APG / RPG / 3PT% / FG% / Kenpom SOS

Jones / 16.1 / 6.3 / 4.3 / 34.7% / 43.3% / 47
Dotson / 18.2 / 4.0 / 3.9 / 30.4% / 47.2% / 3
Howard / 27.6 / 3.3 / 3.3 / 40.5% / 42.2% / 21
Pritchard / 20.2 / 5.4 / 4.3 / 40.5% / 46.1% / 36
Flynn / 17.6 / 5.1 / 4.4 / 37.2% / 44.7% / 107
Winston / 18.5 / 5.8 / 2.5 / 42.5% / 43.4% / 10
Simpson / 13.0 / 7.9 / 4.5 / 35.0% / 47.6% / 2



If those others are are 3, 5, 7, 8, 9, and 16th then Simpson should be higher than 30th.
Nah. You're looking at this too closely with Michigan goggles. Just take a peek at the player efficiency ratings of the point guards you included...

Markus Howard, 29.2
Malachi Flynn, 27.7
Payton Pritchard, 27.1
Devon Dotson, 24.9
Cassius Winston, 23.0
Tre Jones, 21.2
Zavier Simpson, 19.4


And the next set of point guards, all in the top 50, are all ahead of Simpson in the PER metric.

Jalen Crutcher, 21.8
Remy Martin, 21.0
Anthony Cowan, 20.8
Marcus Zegarowski, 20.7
Ayo Dosunmu, 19.8
Kira Lewis, 19.8
 

hailtoyourvictor

Well-Known Member
Gold Member
Dec 11, 2012
24,984
11,449
113
Nah. You're looking at this too closely with Michigan goggles. Just take a peak at the player efficiency ratings of the point guards you included...

Markus Howard, 29.2
Malachi Flynn, 27.7
Payton Pritchard, 27.1
Devon Dotson, 24.9
Cassius Winston, 23.0
Tre Jones, 21.2
Zavier Simpson, 19.4


And the next set of point guards, all in the top 50, are all ahead of Simpson in the PER metric.

Jalen Crutcher, 21.8
Remy Martin, 21.0
Anthony Cowan, 20.8
Marcus Zegarowski, 20.7
Ayo Dosunmu, 19.8
Kira Lewis, 19.8
Michigan goggles? I didn’t come up with those categories for comparing the PGs, it was an MSU fan.
 

dukedevilz

Well-Known Member
Apr 3, 2002
4,920
6,234
113
More goes into things than efficiency ratings. The numbers I posted should be considered.
All 7 of the players you listed were All-Americans, with the exception of Simpson. But, I'm sure the voters were just out to get Michigan. The reality is, Michigan went .500 in league play. A good league. But if you want All-American status (or something close to it) with a .500 conference record, you have to do something extraordinary.
 

hailtoyourvictor

Well-Known Member
Gold Member
Dec 11, 2012
24,984
11,449
113
All 7 of the players you listed were All-Americans, with the exception of Simpson. But, I'm sure the voters were just out to get Michigan. The reality is, Michigan went .500 in league play. A good league. But if you want All-American status (or something close to it) with a .500 conference record, you have to do something extraordinary.
Michigan’s record in league play has to do with the rest of the team sucking, not Simpson.

It was a Michigan State poster that came up with that comparison chart for the PGs, btw. It provides a better overall view that just listing to their PERs.
 

Ipartiedwithhopgood

Well-Known Member
Jan 20, 2011
13,877
506
113
OP it takes some real dedication to throw this together so thanks. I didn't get to see many games this past season but no doubt it's hard to believe Blackshear for FLA tumbled so far, he was like the #1 transfer preseason right?

It's really hard to "rank" these guys... some guys I saw some of that I was impressed with..

Bey for Colorado this dude is really good. I liked Da Silva for Stanford also. The teams in the PAC might have been blah but there was some talent out there.

Not sure if anybody helped themselves more than Oturu did this year. Dude was just a hoss.
 

hailtoyourvictor

Well-Known Member
Gold Member
Dec 11, 2012
24,984
11,449
113
I don’t think Teske getting his talent stolen by the Monstars and Livers being hurt should have that much effect on how we view Simpson.

Simpson was damn good. His team not so much.
 

hailtoyourvictor

Well-Known Member
Gold Member
Dec 11, 2012
24,984
11,449
113
OP it takes some real dedication to throw this together so thanks. I didn't get to see many games this past season but no doubt it's hard to believe Blackshear for FLA tumbled so far, he was like the #1 transfer preseason right?

It's really hard to "rank" these guys... some guys I saw some of that I was impressed with..

Bey for Colorado this dude is really good. I liked Da Silva for Stanford also. The teams in the PAC might have been blah but there was some talent out there.

Not sure if anybody helped themselves more than Oturu did this year. Dude was just a hoss.
Duke’s list are great.


But it wouldn’t be a duke thread if I didn’t hyperfocus on a perceived Michigan slight.


https://www.ncaa.com/stats/basketball-men/d1/current/individual/140
 

dukedevilz

Well-Known Member
Apr 3, 2002
4,920
6,234
113
Being a top 30 player really shouldn't be a slight. If you take the top 5 players from each of the six power conferences, you have 30 players. That means he's essentially a 1st Team All-Conference selection from a power conference. And my list included 5 guys in the top 30 from non-power conferences. So, he didn't just sneak in that list. Simpson had a great year.

This list is for the most impactful players. I could include dozens of mid-major players ahead of Simpson, who had better seasons statistically. But, I'm going to ding them a bit for playing on a mediocre teams. Michigan isn't mediocre, but they certainly weren't world beaters. To be top 15-20, he would need to do something really extraordinary like Markus Howard, Daniel Oturu, or Mason Jones.
 

GE Nole

Well-Known Member
Sep 12, 2005
27,248
10,685
113
I’m surprised you have Vassell over Forrest. Or that you have Forrest outside the top 50 period. That dude has the most wins in FSU history. Not a coincidence. Top 5 in school history in steals and assists. Makes winning play after winning play after winning play during closing time of games.

If we are talking “impact,” then a senior point guard who is a true leader like Forrest seems like he should be a top 25-30 type of guy. Or at least the highest on his own team.
 

dukedevilz

Well-Known Member
Apr 3, 2002
4,920
6,234
113
I’m surprised you have Vassell over Forrest. Or that you have Forrest outside the top 50 period. That dude has the most wins in FSU history. Not a coincidence. Top 5 in school history in steals and assists. Makes winning play after winning play after winning play during closing time of games.

If we are talking “impact,” then a senior point guard who is a true leader like Forrest seems like he should be a top 25-30 type of guy. Or at least the highest on his own team.
Perhaps. I didn't thoroughly analyze each player. Vassell had more votes for being All-ACC than Forrest. DV is a better shooter, had a higher defensive rating, and he actually had a better assist/turnover ratio.

If you look at it by conference, I have Vassell as the #4 ACC player - and Forrest as the #8 player. ACC Media gave Vassell the 7th most votes, and Forrest had the 9th most votes. There could be merit to what you're saying, I just don't know that it's overly convincing.
 

GE Nole

Well-Known Member
Sep 12, 2005
27,248
10,685
113
Perhaps. I didn't thoroughly analyze each player. Vassell had more votes for being All-ACC than Forrest. DV is a better shooter, had a higher defensive rating, and he actually had a better assist/turnover ratio.

If you look at it by conference, I have Vassell as the #4 ACC player - and Forrest as the #8 player. ACC Media gave Vassell the 7th most votes, and Forrest had the 9th most votes. There could be merit to what you're saying, I just don't know that it's overly convincing.
Vassell was asked to do two things: Score and Defend. And he did those things well.

But as you say, impact is more than stats. I see these guys in practice and talk to them after games. I see who the team leader is. When FSU needed a bucket late, there was no question who was initiating the offense (and in multiple games, scoring the go ahead basket). It was Forrest. When FSU needed to get a stop on D, there was no question who was defending the opposing team’s primary option (unless it was a center—which is rare in college).

Vassell is a high IQ player. No question. But turnovers are low, in large part, because he wasn’t asked to run the offense. Thus, Forrest having the most minutes on the team by over 10% and also the highest usage rate on the team.